• Should drugs be legalized ?
    655 replies, posted
Society is not mature enough yet. Give it some time, it will happen in next 20 years.
[QUOTE=Reader;37822356]Society is not mature enough yet. Give it some time, it will happen in next 20 years.[/QUOTE] I think that if you view it that way, society will never be mature enough.
In my opinion if some kind of material exists that is proven to have critical consequences for consuming it, then it should be illegal. Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people, so for this instance forbidding the use of heavy drugs or anything else that has more negative than positive effects.
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823001]In my opinion if some kind of material exists that is proven to have critical consequences for consuming it, then it should be illegal. Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people, so for this instance forbidding the use of heavy drugs or anything else that has more negative than positive effects.[/QUOTE] Yes lets make lead and mercury illegal
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823001]In my opinion if some kind of material exists that is proven to have critical consequences for consuming it, then it should be illegal. Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people, so for this instance forbidding the use of heavy drugs or anything else that has more negative than positive effects.[/QUOTE] Already said this but making them illegal just pushes them underground and makes them more dangerous than they are Any law requiring initiation of force (jailing, fining, threatening to do so, etc.) against a non-violent act is immoral in my eyes. Jailing people and making it so that substances are distributed by a black market where strength + dosage are unknown and contamination runs rife with no accountability DOES NOT PROTECT ANYONE. LETS BAN NIGHTSHADE AND ARSENIC, OH WAIT GET INFORMED BEFORE TRYING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT LOGICALLY PLEASE, READ THE PAGES OF THIS THREAD, MAYBE READ A BOOK OR SOME ARTICLES TOO (like those of us who actually give a FUCK!), COME ON COME ON COME ON else this thread will end like this; BAN BAN BAN BCUZ DURGZ BAD DUUUUUUH BAN BAN BAN HURRRRRRRRR THEY HURTZ PPLZ YHHHHHHH BUTTFUCK
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37823091]Already said this but making them illegal just pushes them underground and makes them more dangerous than they are Any law requiring initiation of force (jailing, fining, threatening to do so, etc.) against a non-violent act is immoral in my eyes. Jailing people and making it so that substances are distributed by a black market where strength + dosage are unknown and contamination runs rife with no accountability DOES NOT PROTECT ANYONE. LETS BAN NIGHTSHADE AND ARSENIC, OH WAIT GET INFORMED BEFORE TRYING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT LOGICALLY PLEASE, READ THE PAGES OF THIS THREAD, MAYBE READ A BOOK OR SOME ARTICLES TOO (like those of us who actually give a FUCK!), COME ON COME ON COME ON else this thread will end like this; BAN BAN BAN BCUZ DURGZ BAD DUUUUUUH BAN BAN BAN HURRRRRRRRR THEY HURTZ PPLZ YHHHHHHH BUTTFUCK[/QUOTE] Ok, the drug that makes you overuse capslock can stay legal :)
Vodka Cake, do you believe that making something illegal is the best way to discourage use and protect people?
I don't know if they should be or not, All i know is that the government keeps citizens from smoking drugs because they want it for themselves. I just explained why america is so fucked up.
Lessons to learn from Portugal: - Decrease in crime rimes and the spread of HIV - Shifted the burden of expenses away from incarceration to drug prevention and addiction [I][U]treatment[/U][/I] - It opens the door for needle and open rehab clinics to reduce the high costs of emergency medical issues and deal with the issue in the open instead of disenfranchising abusers even more - From a psychological point of view, the % of any given population with a propensity towards self-destructive behavior will be constant regardless of legality, and relates more intimately towards the quality of life in X community. - Overall, it's been successful You have to understand that Portugal's problems deal chiefly with IV drug users and more specifically heroin. And here's an extremely important statistic: - Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs"[U][I][B] increased[/B][/I][/U] from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%[14] It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.[15] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use was decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal [15][16] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe. Cannabis is not the issue here. Things to consider in the United States: - Meth - Mexican cartel/American consumer relationship A lot of this pertains to every individual's understanding of drugs, their personal experience with them, and society. - Psychedelics do not create dependency, nor do they symptomatically cause violence or crime. -Meth causes crime as much as living in a shitty, poor, backwater community causes people to use meth. Drugs are not a single-source issue. -Food for thought: the jail sentence for meth possession is higher than that of cocaine. I wonder why /sarcasm -Every gram of cocaine means American dollars leaving the country. It has a very real effect on Balance of Payments. -Depressants are the most dependency-creating, commonly used and legally dispensable drug in existence. -If alcohol were discovered today, it would be illegal.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;37824315]-Food for thought: the jail sentence for meth possession is higher than that of cocaine. I wonder why /sarcasm[/QUOTE] I might just be nitpicking, but the jail sentence for meth and cocaine should be the same considering they're both Schedule 2 drugs in the US. This also allows for both to be available as a prescription medication (desoxyn). Cocaine is also available by prescription (As a topical solution), but I'm not aware of any brand names.
(mandatory minimum sentencing - cocaine/crack cocaine sentencing disparity) "Because it takes 100 times more powder cocaine than crack cocaine to trigger the same mandatory minimum penalty, this penalty structure is commonly referred to as the '100-to-1 drug quantity ratio.'" Source: US Sentencing Commission, "Report to Congress: Cocaine and Federal Sentencing Policy," (Washington, DC: May 2007), p. 3. [editline]27th September 2012[/editline] Nevertheless, you weren't nitpicking. I said it as a hunch rather than a fact-- I should have checked first.
I've changed my mind. Decriminalize Marijuana. Allow MDMA to be used in the treatment of depression, anxiety and to help people get back on track - phased into a rigorous life-focused meditation practice over a few weeks. Decriminalize harder psychedelic drugs like DMT to be used under supervision in a controlled environment, again somehow tied into meditation practice. Leave Salvia and soft psychedelics legal/decriminalized. Really I think you miss a lot in life by not trying stuff.. Yeah it's cool to say 'oh well I don't need it' or whatever, that's the ego speaking. If change scares you, it's inevitable, so maybe becoming more comfortable with that would be a good idea.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37826075]I've changed my mind. Decriminalize Marijuana. Allow MDMA to be used in the treatment of depression, anxiety and to help people get back on track - phased into a rigorous life-focused meditation practice over a few weeks. Decriminalize harder psychedelic drugs like DMT to be used under supervision in a controlled environment, again somehow tied into meditation practice. Leave Salvia and soft psychedelics legal/decriminalized. Really I think you miss a lot in life by not trying stuff.. Yeah it's cool to say 'oh well I don't need it' or whatever, that's the ego speaking. If change scares you, it's inevitable, so maybe becoming more comfortable with that would be a good idea.[/QUOTE] As someone who was done DMT at above and below breakthrough levels, I can assure you, as long as you aren't physically in a dangerous place, and you don't have a severe heart condition, you will be fine. You are at a much higher risk of hurting yourself on salvia than dmt
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37821925]Y I'm fully aware but with the legalization of drugs this could lead to just dirty syringes lying around next to public trash cans, in reach of people who honestly shouldn't be able to reach them now if they could make this needle exchange a government service that would be good but honestly how much would that cost[/QUOTE] In some countries it is a government service and you do see dirty syringes just lying around, you really don't know what you are talking about [editline]28th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SCopE5000;37826075]I've changed my mind. Decriminalize Marijuana. Allow MDMA to be used in the treatment of depression, anxiety and to help people get back on track - phased into a rigorous life-focused meditation practice over a few weeks. Decriminalize harder psychedelic drugs like DMT to be used under supervision in a controlled environment, again somehow tied into meditation practice. Leave Salvia and soft psychedelics legal/decriminalized. Really I think you miss a lot in life by not trying stuff.. Yeah it's cool to say 'oh well I don't need it' or whatever, that's the ego speaking. If change scares you, it's inevitable, so maybe becoming more comfortable with that would be a good idea.[/QUOTE] Holy shit man I would not want to do psychedelics under government supervision tied into meditation, I would rather they stayed illegal than have that happen.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37826075]I've changed my mind. Decriminalize Marijuana. Allow MDMA to be used in the treatment of depression, anxiety and to help people get back on track - phased into a rigorous life-focused meditation practice over a few weeks. Decriminalize harder psychedelic drugs like DMT to be used under supervision in a controlled environment, again somehow tied into meditation practice. Leave Salvia and soft psychedelics legal/decriminalized. Really I think you miss a lot in life by not trying stuff.. Yeah it's cool to say 'oh well I don't need it' or whatever, that's the ego speaking. If change scares you, it's inevitable, so maybe becoming more comfortable with that would be a good idea.[/QUOTE] You do know DMT and salvia have comparable intensity, right?
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823001]Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people,[/QUOTE] They should have the right to protect people from themselves?
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823933]Ok, the drug that makes you overuse capslock can stay legal :)[/QUOTE] Are you sure you want to keep the hard drugs caffeine and ethanol (similar to cocaine and barbiturates respectively) legal? There are many many addicts and abusers of both and by what seems to be your logic making things illegal apparently stops them from being taken or misused and makes everyone safer. [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;37828985]They should have the right to protect people from themselves?[/QUOTE] Exactly - this is the real question. And if they do, how far should they be allowed to go? Personally I think all risky activities including drug taking as well as other less stigmatised but equally dangerous activities such as eating and drinking unhealthily, horseriding, skydiving, bungee jumping, and extreme sports should remain up to the individual. If you continue down the route of attempting absolute standardisation of what activities are BANNED and what activities are ALLOWED you end up needing an efficient police state to enforce it consistently plus you end up with an awful lot of boring people who are only allowed to do the same things as each other. Just because you may see drug taking as less worthwhile than something comparably risky yet unstigmatised like skydiving does not give you the right to impose your preference on others by force. If you don't like what someone is doing or taking, talk to them about it and explain why. Try to make them see your point of view without calling the state muscle in to do your dirty work.
Personally, I've known about five heroin addicts, two of which were hospitalized, one of which is homeless now, one of which went to rehab, and one who is (as far as I know) still using. The two that were hospitalized shot up with smack laced w/fentynal(spelling). Having known these people makes me want to say that yes, drugs should be legalized, simply because at least then they could be regulated in a way that they are safer- or at least cleaner. This is just my gut feeling however, based on my own anecdotal evidence.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;37828985]They should have the right to protect people from themselves?[/QUOTE] Sure; there were a couple of times where I considered suicide but looking back on it I'm glad I didn't do it I realized I was being stupid. The point is that I realize that I WANT people to help me if I'm doing stupid shit, and the only thing that really stopped me from doing it was my religion.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37852620]Sure; there were a couple of times where I considered suicide but looking back on it I'm glad I didn't do it I realized I was being stupid. The point is that I realize that I WANT people to help me if I'm doing stupid shit, and the only thing that really stopped me from doing it was my religion.[/QUOTE] The difference being you can use drugs safely, you can't kill yourself safely. It's irrelevant anyways, drug use and safety associated with drug use go down and up respectively with legalisation, if you wanted to actually protect your people from drugs while still maintaining some amount of freedom, prohibiting them isn't going to help.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37852620]Sure; there were a couple of times where I considered suicide but looking back on it I'm glad I didn't do it I realized I was being stupid. The point is that I realize that I WANT people to help me if I'm doing stupid shit, and the only thing that really stopped me from doing it was my religion.[/QUOTE] "I am glad people stopped me from doing that" =/= "All people should be stopped from doing that" I don't think the fact that you now recognize that you were making a mistake gives government the right to dictate what is a mistake in your life, particularly when it's not even suicide at issue, it's drug use.
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823001]In my opinion if some kind of material exists that is proven to have critical consequences for consuming it, then it should be illegal. Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people, so for this instance forbidding the use of heavy drugs or anything else that has more negative than positive effects.[/QUOTE] You're completely right Let's ban bleach, soap, engine oil, plastic, paint, metal....
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Weed, cocaine, XTC, Acid should never be Legalized. They should, in my opinion be discriminalized, which is different. I believe it's something that should only be sold in closed doors to people who don't have a history of violence and addiction.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;37868262]Weed, cocaine, XTC, Acid should never be Legalized. They should, in my opinion be discriminalized, which is different. I believe it's something that should only be sold in closed doors to people who don't have a history of violence and addiction.[/QUOTE] Well if its decriminalized it will still be sold to anyone [editline]1st October 2012[/editline] And why would violence be a factor for weed acid and mdma?
Decriminalisation just continues the gifting of the market to organised crime and does not remove the dangers that deregulation brings such as not knowing what product, what strength and dosage, what contaminants, are in what you're getting. Yes it might stop people getting sent to jail for merely possessing shit but it doesn't do anything else to eliminate the organised crime and resulting violence that comes with the black market.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37868293]Decriminalisation just continues the gifting of the market to organised crime and does not remove the dangers that deregulation brings such as not knowing what product, what strength and dosage, what contaminants, are in what you're getting. Yes it might stop people getting sent to jail for merely possessing shit but it doesn't do anything else to eliminate the organised crime and resulting violence that comes with the black market.[/QUOTE] It removes the incentive of buying drugs illegally, right? I read your post a couple times and I don't see why the case would be different.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;37879289]It removes the incentive of buying drugs illegally, right? I read your post a couple times and I don't see why the case would be different.[/QUOTE] What? you are still buying drugs illegally when it is decriminalized its just a much less harsh penalty
[QUOTE=Vodka Cake;37823001]In my opinion if some kind of material exists that is proven to have critical consequences for consuming it, then it should be illegal. [I]Governments and other sovereign bodies should have the right to protect its people, so for this instance forbidding the use of heavy drugs or anything else that has more negative than positive effects.[/I][/QUOTE] Yes! You're right, people don't know what it's good for them... they're like children... or animals! And, of course, Mr. government is a lot more mature than them, so he should take care of them!
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;37879613]What? you are still buying drugs illegally when it is decriminalized its just a much less harsh penalty[/QUOTE] Oh, I totally read that wrong. Myyyyyyy baaaaaddddd.
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