[QUOTE=No_Excuses;37906142]So the government wouldn't slap massive taxes on drug companies kind of like it does with alcohol and cigarettes? It's just another opportunity to make money from addicts. Then dealers would raise their prices to match them.
[/QUOTE]
I would be fine paying a little extra to buy clean quality product legally instead of random stuff from black market. If some random guy was selling you a vodka bottle on the street for 5$ cheaper than the store across the street would you buy it? Dealers would have to throw their prices pretty low or just sell to kids.. which they already do. Adults probably would just go buy from stores instead.
I think shit like cocaine and all those "hard drugs" are illegal for a reason. People get addicted so easily, get aggressive, and bad things happen. They can hurt the people around them physically or emotionally with an addiction.
Then again they could always make a law "If you never leave the house and don't talk to people you can do hard drugs, you'll only be affecting yourself"
The fact that they are illegal makes them more dangerous than they need to be, as I've said countless times in this thread
Most of them should be legalized, except Heroine. Unless there are some strange medical benifits to it that out weigh the negatives then go for it.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37945353]The fact that they are illegal makes them more dangerous than they need to be, as I've said countless times in this thread[/QUOTE]
Ready for another one?
[editline]7th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;37947692]Most of them should be legalized, except Heroine. Unless there are some strange medical benifits to it that out weigh the negatives then go for it.[/QUOTE]
[editline]7th October 2012[/editline]
I don't think people even read ANY of the thread before chiming in to say heroine and cocain should be illegal.
Nope I'm not ready! I hate how this topic attracts so many people to develop an opinion without actually educating themselves on it first or at least reading what has been said previously in the thread. I imagine that is part of the problem - it is an issue that attracts both moralising morons and anti-reading pseudo-scientists alike to showcase their opinions based on hunches and uninformed reckonings alone. HEROINE IS BADE THERE4 BAN YHHHHH?
heroin and cocaine
please learn to spell
Do we really need to take drugs to be creative?
no but taking drugs to explore different state of consciousness and enhance creativity and other things is pretty enjoyable
[QUOTE=TehWhale;37953464]no but [b]taking drugs to[/b] explore different state of consciousness and [b]enhance creativity[/b] and other things [b]is pretty enjoyable[/b][/QUOTE]
oh okay
i didn't say you need them for creativity, i said they can enhance creativity
and drugs in general are fun
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;37953387]Do we really need to take drugs to be creative?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TehWhale;37953387]no but taking drugs to explore different state of consciousness and enhance creativity and other things is pretty enjoyable[/QUOTE]
On this, I think exploring different states of consciousness is actually a 'sure' way to find things about your own consciousness and the way in which things show up 'in your world' you wouldn't be able to realize while you're sober. That was the case for me, particularly.
[QUOTE=Swilly;37947692]Most of them should be legalized, except Heroine. Unless there are some strange medical benifits to it that out weigh the negatives then go for it.[/QUOTE]
heroin is already used in hospitals often lol
he is talking about illicit heroin
that's the same heroin used in hospitals except street heroin is often cut with other chemicals
I think that most of the potent drugs should be legalized.
Reasons why:
1: People aren't dying of overdose because they either can't buy the drug that has a higher price due to the higher prices of the drugs the farther they travel or because they can't find a person to get them the drug. Legalizing the drugs will make it easier for people to get. Assuming the government makes the price reasonable these drug addicts will buy and buy until they kill themselves by overdosing. Legalizing the potent drugs will kill off the very strongly addicted addicts and show people how stupid it really is to get hooked on these. Also, this sudden death rate of people not needed on the planet will stop the federal funding of sending people to rehab. (Kids caught with drugs at school are given the choice of serving time or going to rehabilitation. Most choose the easier one and go to rehab.)
2: Legalizing the drugs will stop the crime committed to become the most successful drug lord, ending most violence in bad neighborhoods and it will stop the drug trafficking coming in from Mexico reducing our problems.
Who knows, this could happen, just a theory. Overall, it will help the economy and reduce violence.
A lot of the time the reason people overdose or fuck themselves up is that they don't know the strength of what they are getting or what it is mixed with, Krusher :)
Clean heroin consumed using sterile paraphernalia in the correct calculated dosage is pretty safe. When good quality product is easily available for a reasonable price, an addict can maintain their daily dosage or two and avoid withdrawal and even hold down a day job. Withdrawal is uncomfortable but rarely life threatening. It's lesser known because of scaremongering but there are many people who use heroin and other opiates on an occasional basis without getting addicted at all.
It's refreshing to see someone in this thread who actually bothered to read the other posts/pages or has knowledge from elsewhere on the subject.
I've already posted several times in this thread, and honestly, it's just the same argument over and over, and all of the counterarguments are just rehashes of illogical reasoning. It's quite apparent that most of the replies are just random lurkers looking at one post, and giving their opinion on it, which I guess is fine, but it's really counterproductive as opposed to at least reading most of the thread to gather and hopefully generate a better (logical) response and argument.
In my opinion, if you disagree with all drugs being legalized, then you obviously have not done any research into anything regarding this matter, especially the history surrounding it.
[QUOTE=Cruma;37968124]I've already posted several times in this thread, and honestly, it's just the same argument over and over, and all of the counterarguments are just rehashes of illogical reasoning. It's quite apparent that most of the replies are just random lurkers looking at one post, and giving their opinion on it, which I guess is fine, but it's really counterproductive as opposed to at least reading most of the thread to gather and hopefully generate a better (logical) response and argument.
[I]In my opinion, if you disagree with all drugs being legalized, then you obviously have not done any research into anything regarding this matter, especially the history surrounding it.[/I][/QUOTE]
The first thing I must say is that this is no way to debate. Saying your opponent is disagreeing with because of lack of knowledge is declaring yourself the winner beforehand, and therefore not being open for a discussion.
I don't exactly agree on the [I]total[/I] legalization of all substances. For example, I think the substances that are highly addictive shouldn't be allowed to be sold by private companies because of the risk of them abusing consumers. Or that at least there should be some limitations that takes that kind problems into consideration.
[QUOTE=matsta;37968299]The first thing I must say is that this is no way to debate. Saying your opponent is disagreeing with because of lack of knowledge is declaring yourself the winner beforehand, and therefore not being open for a discussion.
I don't exactly agree on the [I]total[/I] legalization of all substances. For example, I think the substances that are highly addictive shouldn't be allowed to be sold by private companies because of the risk of them abusing consumers. Or that at least there should be some limitations that takes that kind problems into consideration.[/QUOTE]
I've already done my debating, or at least as much as I can stand, as mentioned. I was simply giving my own opinion/observation as a whole, you don't need to agree with it, it's just what I think. I have no issues preemptively "declaring myself the winner beforehand." To me it's a fact that the right thing to do is legalize all drugs, to you it's an opinion, it doesn't really matter in the end.
[QUOTE=mastfire;37961115]he is talking about illicit heroin[/QUOTE]
uhh they are both diamorphine, just the illicit one is less pure because people like to cut drugs, if it was not illicit this would not be the case. Heroin is a morphine prodrug which means its metabolically converted to morphine before it works so it just changes the way the morphine is delivered to your brain. Its actually preferred to morphine because it has a lower side affect profile.
here is some medical use taken from wikipedia
[quote]
Medical use
Under the chemical name diamorphine, diacetylmorphine is prescribed as a strong analgesic in the United Kingdom, where it is given via subcutaneous, intramuscular, intrathecal or intravenous route. Its use includes treatment for acute pain, such as in severe physical trauma, myocardial infarction, post-surgical pain, and chronic pain, including end-stage cancer and other terminal illnesses. In other countries it is more common to use morphine or other strong opioids in these situations. In 2004, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence produced guidance on the management of caesarian section, which recommended the use of intrathecal or epidural diacetylmorphine for post-operative pain relief.[14]
In 2005, there was a shortage of diacetylmorphine in the UK, because of a problem at the main UK manufacturers.[15] Because of this, many hospitals changed to using morphine instead of diacetylmorphine. Although there is no longer a problem with the manufacturing of diacetylmorphine in the UK, some hospitals there have continued to use morphine (the majority, however, continue to use diacetylmorphine, and diacetylmorphine tablets are supplied for pain management).
Diacetylmorphine continues to be widely used in palliative care in the United Kingdom, where it is commonly given by the subcutaneous route, often via a syringe driver, if patients cannot easily swallow oral morphine solution. The advantage of diacetylmorphine over morphine is that diacetylmorphine is more fat soluble and therefore more potent (by injection only), so smaller doses of it are needed for the same analgesic effect. Both of these factors are advantageous if giving high doses of opioids via the subcutaneous route, which is often necessary in palliative care.
[/quote]
also if it was legal basically all the adverse effects that fuck over addicts would be gone because
"Like most opioids, unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation"
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;37969409]dependence[/QUOTE]
Isn't that enough reason to have it controlled?
No? having it controlled just means it ruins the people who become dependent on its lives even more, and you can use heroin without being addicted, admittedly it is much harder to do than other drugs but If it was legal there would be much more information and support for you and it would be safer.
[editline]9th October 2012[/editline]
Also if it was legal it would be much cheaper so the dependance would be even less of an issue
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;37969915]Isn't that enough reason to have it controlled?[/QUOTE]
Lots of people are dependent on caffeine too, more so than they realise. Doesn't mean it should be banned. It would just be driven underground and become mainly distributed as a concentrate just like it's chemical cousin coca (which is comparable in terms of harm) which became increasingly distributed as cocaine after being prohibited as it was stronger (need less) and easier to transport (few grams of white powder vs thousands of leaves).
Coca tea and other coca leaf extract products are pretty damn safe and comparable to caffeinated snacks and beverages yet are generally only available in producing nations due to the conctrated powder being far more profitable due to prohibition and easier to transport/conceal.
That's without mentioning all the nasty contamination shit that goes on and not knowing the strength of what you're getting causing potential accidental overdose. If it were not pushed into a black market, these main dangers would be lessened a great deal.
yes
anyone that dictates what you can put in your body is an asshole
[QUOTE=Crackers;36992825]No, not all drugs should be legalized. Sure, some drugs have medicinal properties, but there's really not much a harmful drug could do for you that hasn't already been improved and made into a more practical medicine. And I also don't believe in the whole "It's your body, do what you want." way of thinking, because most people have families who care about them, and it would be devastating to lose a loved member of the family because they decided to take drugs.[/QUOTE]
If you want to take a drug you're going to take that drug, illegal or not. Having the substance illegal only increases the mortality of the use of the drug.
My only fear with the legalisation of general drugs is the limited understanding a large portion of the population has. Sure, someone could be able to comprehend the statistics, dosages, harm, benefits of a variety of drugs. With such a large selection of substances available, how will people knw which work with each other, and which works against each other? With the current status of society people are having a hard enough time caring about what you're not safely allowed to do while on doctor prescribed medicine.
I cannot see the general public knowing and understanding the chemical/biological aspect of drugs.
I mean that dude in your high school class bragging about having never read a book and getting wasted every weekend, giving zero shits about the inner workings and health implications: Will he be able to understand, or seek the knowledge that alcohol = safe, Morphine = safe but alcohol + morphine = possible death due to overly supressed cns?
Personally I don't think so, while on the subject I think hospitals would be swimming in serotonin syndrom victims.
[QUOTE=kaskade700;37979799]If you want to take a drug you're going to take that drug, illegal or not. Having the substance illegal only increases the mortality of the use of the drug.
My only fear with the legalisation of general drugs is the limited understanding a large portion of the population has. Sure, someone could be able to comprehend the statistics, dosages, harm, benefits of a variety of drugs. With such a large selection of substances available, how will people knw which work with each other, and which works against each other? With the current status of society people are having a hard enough time caring about what you're not safely allowed to do while on doctor prescribed medicine.
I cannot see the general public knowing and understanding the chemical/biological aspect of drugs.
I mean that dude in your high school class bragging about having never read a book and getting wasted every weekend, giving zero shits about the inner workings and health implications: Will he be able to understand, or seek the knowledge that alcohol = safe, Morphine = safe but alcohol + morphine = possible death due to overly supressed cns?
Personally I don't think so, while on the subject I think hospitals would be swimming in serotonin syndrom victims.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so man, when you buy stuff from pharmacies they ask if you are on any medications and they tell you what not to mix it with and everything comes with instructions and what not to mix it with
Seems to be based on the masses being inconsolably ignorant which is a whimsical assumption to make to be honest. The masses aren't that dumb, sure many of them are "switched off" and lazy but not overly stupid.
If people choose not to listen to what they are advised then what can you do? You can't force them to act with intelligence. At least with a regulated market the point at which you acquire the substance could actually offer advice on contraindications, etc. unlike the current situation with the drug dealer who generally gives less than a shit about the health of his customers.
I am all for legalisation. I'm just nitpicking based on my own observations.
Yeah and that's great - damn sight better than what some others do to shit all over this thread :P
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