• Should drugs be legalized ?
    655 replies, posted
You don't get it. The majority of deaths from drug use itself come from them being illegal in the first place and being distributed via an unregulated black market peppered with wonderfully delightful characters. Check out alcohol prohibition for an example of what happens. Potentially stronger shit, unregulated and bootlegged and contaminated. People can use them as weapons against others? What? That can be applied to pretty much anything. Don't fucking drive anywhere, you're going to use your car as a weapon against others. Don't go out of the door, you might strangle someone with your jumper. Drugs don't make people kill each other, people do. It's time individual responsibility was imposed universally. Just because you're high/drunk doesn't excuse you from your actions - you chose to consume it in the first place. If you cause a health problem to yourself partaking in a risky activity such as unhealthy eating, skydiving, drug use, or whatever else maybe you should pay for your own treatment. That way people would want to make sure they were doing and using things correctly as there would be a potential financial penalty for not doing so. With state healthcare if it covers skateboarding and obesity it should cover drug use problems too. Bath salts did not make that guy eat that other guys face and PCP doesn't make conveniently black dudes superhuman rapists of white women. Maybe they were mentally disturbed and shouldn't have been able to obtain or take the drugs in the first place - regulation could prevent them from being able to do so.
[QUOTE=sonerin;37002214]People can use them as weapons against others.[/QUOTE] what? Also, why are you against people not being able to decide for themselves what they put in their body?
The issue is that people can make dumb decisions, and those dumb decisions can affect others. Even though drugs are today illegal, there is still an alarming number of people getting hooked on very addictive, physically deteriorating drugs, and who lose a ton of money getting bigger and bigger doses, which eventually push them to commit crimes in order to pay for more. Legalizing drugs won't solve any of that, if anything it's just gonna increase the number of people in that situation. Before even thinking about legalizing we have to inform people properly.
[QUOTE=sonerin;37002214]Once again, they should stay illegal. People can use them as weapons against others. Stop the "their body lel drugs are cool" shit. [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] Death due to alcohol makes it okay to add another reason for people to die, right?[/QUOTE] How many people die due to overdose on Cannabis, LSD, and psilocybin mushrooms? [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;37004361]The issue is that people can make dumb decisions, and those dumb decisions can affect others. Even though drugs are today illegal, there is still an alarming number of people getting hooked on very addictive, physically deteriorating drugs, and who lose a ton of money getting bigger and bigger doses, which eventually push them to commit crimes in order to pay for more. Legalizing drugs won't solve any of that, if anything it's just gonna increase the number of people in that situation. Before even thinking about legalizing we have to inform people properly.[/QUOTE] Decriminalizing heroin and putting people into rehab instead of prison isn't suddenly going to make everyone go and do heroin. The alcohol education program at many schools is accurate and informative, but people still binge drink.
[QUOTE=BurningPlayd0h;37004363]Decriminalizing heroin and putting people into rehab instead of prison isn't suddenly going to make everyone go and do heroin. The alcohol education program at many schools is accurate and informative, but people still binge drink.[/QUOTE] There is a difference between putting people into rehab instead of prison and simply making Heroin legal for everyone. Sorry if I read Polarbear's message wrong but I believe he said drugs should be made fully legal, regardless of what they do. I'm all for rehab instead of prison though, I just don't think fully legalizing something as destructive as Heroin and other hard drugs is a good idea.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37004479]There is a difference between putting people into rehab instead of prison and simply making Heroin legal for everyone. Sorry if I read Polarbear's message wrong but I believe he said drugs should be made fully legal, regardless of what they do. I'm all for rehab instead of prison though, I just don't think fully legalizing something as destructive as Heroin and other hard drugs is a good idea.[/QUOTE] I would tend to agree considering the damage that just alcohol and prescribed opiates do to our society now. Cannabis on the other hand has proven medical uses, and there is really no point in keeping it illegal anymore. LSD, mushrooms, and other psychedelics are completely safe if used in a safe environment. I believe they should at least be allowed to be given by therapists/psychologists along with MDMA (ecstasy) to their patients.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37004361]The issue is that people can make dumb decisions, and those dumb decisions can affect others. Even though drugs are today illegal, there is still an alarming number of people getting hooked on very addictive, physically deteriorating drugs, and who lose a ton of money getting bigger and bigger doses, which eventually push them to commit crimes in order to pay for more. Legalizing drugs won't solve any of that, if anything it's just gonna increase the number of people in that situation. Before even thinking about legalizing we have to inform people properly.[/QUOTE] Sure tolerance means people gradually increase their dosage with some drugs but only when they can actually tell what they're getting and how much of it is actually what they want and not contaminated crap. The stealing and other crimes to pay for more is much the result of the inflated pricing due to illegality. Definitely people need to be better informed about drugs and the shit they throw out there in schools needs to be rethought completely with a scientific basis rather than a moralising one. As [URL="http://facepunch.com/member.php?u=256786"]BurningPlayd0h[/URL] said, just because you inform people doesn't mean they will take that information seriously or be practical with it - people abuse alcohol despite much of what is told about it in schools being pretty accurate and scientifically based. That is their problem and whatever it leads them to do is their fault alone - they should pay for whatever the damage they cause to themselves and society through their wilful ignorance.
I think people miss out that a society where weaponry and psychedelic drugs is allowed would drive a country into oblivion.
[QUOTE=AK'z;37004716]I think people miss out that a society where weaponry and psychedelic drugs is allowed would drive a country into oblivion.[/QUOTE] Usually people taking psychs don't have guns and knives laying around. Not to mention, how would having both legal drive a country into the ground? Both were legal for a time during the late 50's and early 60's.
[QUOTE=AK'z;37004716]I think people miss out that a society where weaponry and psychedelic drugs is allowed would drive a country into oblivion.[/QUOTE] That is just romanticising the whole thing with an unrealistic future world view. Psychedelic drugs are already pretty widely available despite them apparently being "illegal" yet I see no "crazy mushroom gangsters" attempting to attack invisible enemies in the street. Weaponry is also pretty widely available. Where is this oblivion you speak of? People aren't that fucking dumb in general and do not want to destroy their environment - they don't need so-called parenting from authority.
[QUOTE=AK'z;37004716]I think people miss out that a society where weaponry and psychedelic drugs is allowed would drive a country into oblivion.[/QUOTE] Not if it's regulated and well thought. In a way, it's like cars : you can very easily kill a lot of people including you with a car, so the only way to legally drive one is to follow a country-scaled set of rules, and to pass a quite hard exam which gives you a mandatory driver license, which makes most people behave the same way while driving, thus limiting greatly the number of casualties. In the same way, you can't get drunk in the public place, because that would lead to a lot of issues. You obviously don't need a drinker's license in order to get drunk, but you have to be above a certain age. If drugs are legalized it would follow the same logic, probably in a more regulated way given how drugs can be very problematic if used wrong (even recreational drugs like cannabis and such). [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JustExtreme;37004798]That is just romanticising the whole thing with an unrealistic future world view. Psychedelic drugs are already pretty widely available despite them apparently being "illegal" yet I see no "crazy mushroom gangsters" attempting to attack invisible enemies in the street. Weaponry is also pretty widely available. Where is this oblivion you speak of? People aren't that fucking dumb in general and do not want to destroy their environment - they don't need so-called parenting from authority.[/QUOTE] The thing is guns are being regulated. You can't just get a gun from a gun dispenser in the street. In order to legally buy a gun you have to get through a certain procedure, buy it from certain sellers, etc. You can be assured that if guns were completely out of any sort of regulation it WOULD be a big issue.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37004826]Not if it's regulated and well thought. In a way, it's like cars : you can very easily kill a lot of people including you with a car, so the only way to legally drive one is to follow a country-scaled set of rules, and to pass a quite hard exam which gives you a mandatory driver license, which makes most people behave the same way while driving, thus limiting greatly the number of casualties. In the same way, you can't get drunk in the public place, because that would lead to a lot of issues. You obviously don't need a drinker's license in order to get drunk, but you have to be above a certain age. If drugs are legalized it would follow the same logic, probably in a more regulated way given how drugs can be very problematic if used wrong (even recreational drugs like cannabis and such). [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] The thing is guns are being regulated. You can't just get a gun from a gun dispenser in the street. In order to legally buy a gun you have to get through a certain procedure, buy it from certain sellers, etc. You can be assured that if guns were completely out of any sort of regulation it WOULD be a big issue.[/QUOTE] Well in some parts of the U.S. it almost is like going up to a gun dispenser. Granted, in those places most people probably aren't going to be dropping acid any time soon.
well.. in the UK, I can't name many "massacres" and it's clear why. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots[/url] imagine that with guns... there was a fear to walk around outside, but I didn't avoid going out. In fact I was very confident to go out while it occurred. 5 deaths. so it's clear I'm not basing my words on what goes on in America.
[QUOTE=AK'z;37005636]well.. in the UK, I can't name many "massacres" and it's clear why. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots[/url] imagine that with guns... there was a fear to walk around outside, but I didn't avoid going out. In fact I was very confident to go out while it occurred. 5 deaths. so it's clear I'm not basing my words on what goes on in America.[/QUOTE] How does this have anything to do with psychedelic drugs? Gun control has worked quite well so far in Europe, no one is disputing that.
[QUOTE=BurningPlayd0h;37005565]Well in some parts of the U.S. it almost is like going up to a gun dispenser. Granted, in those places most people probably aren't going to be dropping acid any time soon.[/QUOTE] And even if they did, acid is a pretty safe drug. The only danger with it and other psychedelics is taking it at the wrong time or trying to do something requiring concentration and motor skills like driving. People who drop acid or shrooms tend to do it at home though or in a secluded environment because otherwise there is a risk of getting scared shitless and having a bad trip. It's like Bill Hicks said "man on acid jumps off a building, what a tragedy, WHAT A DICK". Not the acids fault, the users fault for being irresponsible and taking it in the wrong mind state in the wrong place at the wrong time AND without a trip sitter.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37005933]And even if they did, acid is a pretty safe drug. The only danger with it and other psychedelics is taking it at the wrong time or trying to do something requiring concentration and motor skills like driving. People who drop acid or shrooms tend to do it at home though or in a secluded environment because otherwise there is a risk of getting scared shitless and having a bad trip. It's like Bill Hicks said "man on acid jumps off a building, what a tragedy, WHAT A DICK". Not the acids fault, the users fault for being irresponsible and taking it in the wrong mind state in the wrong place at the wrong time AND without a trip sitter.[/QUOTE] Exactly, and we don't hear about the thousands of trips that go well on the news either.
Yeah and that's because moralising negative crap gets shouted far louder and spreads far quicker than positive drug stories. The media media tends to be pretty biased in coverage of drugs towards current policy in the countries they publish/broadcast in so it just ends up peddling sob stories and such instead of anything objective just so they can remain best friends with the governments that regulate their industry and get handouts as a vested interest. If drugs in general were really as terrible as governments, corporations, and the media propagate then the use of them would be enough of a punishment in itself and there would be no need for judicial deterrents and exaggerating moralising bullshit. Without a totalitarian state drugs cannot be "banned" effectively. I think it is time we realised this and made them as safe as possible as they can be through regulation so anyone tempted to try/use them is not driven into a dangerous black market to do so and made into a pariah.
Legalize all of the drugs because the prohibition of drugs only serves to create a black market and label addicts as criminals. Addiction isn't a criminal act. It's a medical problem that needs to be addressed as such instead of sending people to jail/making addicts who are usually poor pay fines for their addictions.
Exactly, we should help those who develop a problematic relationship with any substance or activity and leave people alone who use or take part in it responsibly without negative issue. The inflated pricing of the black market is what causes many people with a bad relationship with a substance to become poor and resort to property crime to fund their habit. You can have positive and negative relationships with any substance or activity just like you can with other human beings.
[QUOTE=sonerin;37002214]Once again, they should stay illegal. People can use them as weapons against others. Stop the "their body lel drugs are cool" shit. [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] Death due to alcohol makes it okay to add another reason for people to die, right?[/QUOTE] people can use them as weapons? when's the last time someone killed someone with weed? and if we want to outlaw things that can be used as weapons, we should also outlaw scissors. And heavy books. And pillows. Don't forget those nasty pencils, they're pointy. [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] also, what is the reasoning behind the "legal to use, illegal to sell" idea? Do people not notice the huge flaw? It wouldn't reduce drug-related crime, because the dealers would still be criminals. If it's legalized, it should be legal to sell.
[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;37012451]people can use them as weapons? when's the last time someone killed someone with weed? and if we want to outlaw things that can be used as weapons, we should also outlaw scissors. And heavy books. And pillows. Don't forget those nasty pencils, they're pointy. [/QUOTE] Let's chop everyone's extremities off because you can bludgeon and choke people, but wait they'll just start headbutting each other. Better just behead everyone.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;37013039]drugs are bad you might get pregnant for sharing weed needles also you can overdose and you will go to hell If they are legalized there will still be illegal drug trafficking, since a legalized drug is a controlled substance not everyone will be able to get it so there will still be people dicking around and selling it.[/QUOTE] Yes but illegal selling would be reduced to a tiny minority. Why buy from a illegal dealer when you could buy from a insured, certified and legitimate store? The only reason I see people still buying illegally is if they're good friends with somebody who grows, which doesn't cause any problems anyways.
[QUOTE=l l;36984513]Drugs that are only harmful to the person taking them should be. E.g PCP wouldn't be legal.[/QUOTE] Whats your gripe with pcp?
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;37014082]Whats your gripe with pcp?[/QUOTE] Why would you ever do PCP? Sounds like you're defending it, that's just dumb.
[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;37014211]Why would you ever do PCP? Sounds like you're defending it, that's just dumb.[/QUOTE] Hahaha you obviously know nothing about PCP. The same hysteria that occurred with Bath Salts, LSD, and Crack happened with PCP. It is a sedative, so the stories of people in homicidal rages and with superhuman strength are the exaggerations of instances where uninformed people used PCP and are frightened by its effects.
[QUOTE=MedicmanV500;37014211]Why would you ever do PCP? Sounds like you're defending it, that's just dumb.[/QUOTE] Its a dissociative that can be used responsibly and without incident as long as you aren't stupid. DXM which is found in cough syrup is meant to be similar to it.
[QUOTE=BurningPlayd0h;37014453]Hahaha you obviously know nothing about PCP. The same hysteria that occurred with Bath Salts, LSD, and Crack happened with PCP. It is a sedative, so the stories of people in homicidal rages and with superhuman strength are the exaggerations of instances where uninformed people used PCP and are frightened by its effects.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. [editline]31st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Stormcharger;37016414]Its a dissociative that can be used responsibly and without incident as long as you aren't stupid. DXM which is found in cough syrup is meant to be similar to it.[/QUOTE] Yep and as long as you aren't of unstable mental health. That applies to any psychoactive substance really including alcohol and even tobacco, make sure you're stable in the head before taking A lot of schizophrenics smoke because nicotine has anti-psychotic properties.
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;36913024]I agree, there is potential use in the medical field with marijuana, for example, cancer patients. But I'm not so sure about the other drugs like cocaine. Isn't the only problem is that they are just really addictive?[/QUOTE] so is alcohol and nicotine, yet they're perfectly legal.
Cocaine is remarkably similar to caffeine in chemical structure. People don't snort caffeine powder generally as it is available in more convenient pleasant and topical forms due to it not being a prohibited substance. Cocaine is a concentrate distributed because it happens to have some good stimulating effects and it is far easier to smuggle small amounts of white powder than the thousands of coca leaves and plants used to produce it. Coca tea is pretty cool.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37016926]Cocaine is remarkably similar to caffeine in chemical structure. People don't snort caffeine powder generally as it is available in more convenient pleasant and topical forms due to it not being a prohibited substance. Cocaine is a concentrate distributed because it happens to have some good stimulating effects and it is far easier to smuggle small amounts of white powder than the thousands of coca leaves and plants used to produce it. Coca tea is pretty cool.[/QUOTE] Drinking a cup of coca tea in the morning is FAR more healthy then the cups of coffee an average adult drinks during work. I have read some reports about people working in South American countries, working at farms and drinking one cup of Coca tea every morning (as opposed to coffee/caffeine) the mental and physical effects were far more pleasant than coffee. It seems, that coca tea leaves behind the rush feeling of cocaine(thus lowering the addicting potential)
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