[QUOTE=dabarker;37275439]Yes. I am also for removing labels from things that are clearly toxic that read DO NOT DRINK THIS!.
It would take the money away from the drug lords and greatly improve the lives of most people living in Mexico. Also illegal immigration from mexico would be less of a problem.
Controlling the distribution of the drugs would be the next big step. The ability to make drugs just as effective but not as addictive would also be awesome.[/QUOTE]
Most drugs arent even physically or mentally addictive. They are just as addictive as browsing the internet or playing games, it's the need of repeated the experience, and not the drug.
Depends which drugs.
Even the so-called "harder" drugs are made a whole lot more dangerous by the black market. That is why I think all should be regulated (each individually based on their actual properties) and made available to adults.
People don't tend to overdose deliberately on things such as heroin, it's normally because they don't know what strength they are getting or their tolerance has gone up since last time (or both in combination, how confusing!), or their supply is contaminated by the black market. Also there is the dirty paraphenalia problem made worse by clean needles being difficult to come by. The property crime association is also attributable to prohibition and it's inflated pricing. If someone was able to get their daily dosage or two of heroin it wouldn't actually be all that much of a problem and they could easily hold down a job just like a caffeine junkie because heroin is a very safe substance when the strength is known, it is taken using sterile equipment (no sharing!), and it is not contaminated. The black market is the cause of most heroin deaths, not the drug itself in it's pure form.
I find it disgusting how people discard users of heroin and such as subhuman. Sure, maybe you disagree with their choice to take it, but where the fuck is your social conciousness and compassion? Moralising and banning (brushing under the carpet) just cause more deaths from something that would cause very few deaths if it were distributed in a sensible way instead of being left to the morally blind profit motives of the black market. Some people enjoy heroin and want to take it, deal with it. It isn't going to disappear so we may as well make it as safe as possible for those who choose to use.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;37228202]No, I don't think drugs should be legalized. However, I do think this whole drug war should be ended. It costs to much to carry out and is ineffective.
It would be much better to change upbringing and institution so that people don't feel compelled to take drugs. That's the hard part.[/QUOTE]
But the war on drugs makes more than it costs.
just have like big government centres where junkies go in and dont leave, the government just gives them so much drugs they OD and there are no junkies left problem solvered.
Drug laws should be reviewed. certain drugs should be made illegal, even some of the more dangerous stuff could be made legal, maybe able to be obtained from a doctor who advises you on use of the drug, and warns you off the effects, potential danger. The cost of the drugs would reflect the cost of doctors service as well, so it's not like they would be exactly cheap.
It'd be nice to live in a world where you can pop down to your doctor pay him some money and have him hand you some drugs that haven't been smuggled into the country in some illegal immigrants stomach, and definately aren't tampered with and are a safe amount.
that drugs are illegal just means people will break the law to do them, and put themself at more risk than if there was just a system in place for them to get them legally.
Criminalizing drugs is just lazy and almost irresponsible
All of them except Krokodil and Heroin.
I honestly haven't seen any studies that have shown that either presents any benefits while the others have shown that in controlled quantities they can help.
Sure but a lot of the harms and deaths from heroin stem from the black market and not the substance. Unknown strength (hence overdoses), contamination, dirty paraphenalia, etc. When applied uncontaminated and with the correct dosage and clean paraphenalia heroin is a very safe drug. People are gonna keep using it no matter how stigmatised it is so we may as well make the substance as safe as possible for those people by regulating it properly and dispensing it from in a controlled environment where advice and assistance is available. It's time to stop writing people off as junkies just because "banning" has made such a mess with the black market.
[QUOTE=Swilly;37360500]All of them except Krokodil and Heroin.
I honestly haven't seen any studies that have shown that either presents any benefits while the others have shown that in controlled quantities they can help.[/QUOTE]
Both desomorphine (medically made krockdil) and diacetylmorphine are used medically and have uses. Recreational uses don't need to have a purpose other than that the user wants to use it in the same way there are no benefits to drinking alcohol but that is still legal to do.
[QUOTE=Swilly;37360500]All of them except Krokodil and Heroin.
I honestly haven't seen any studies that have shown that either presents any benefits while the others have shown that in controlled quantities they can help.[/QUOTE]
You do know desomorphine and heroin are painkillers, right?
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37362451]You do know desomorphine and heroin are painkillers, right?[/QUOTE]
I didn't, legalize everything.
[QUOTE=therake6;37256806]As long as there are laws and simple tests for each legalized drug in order to prevent them from being used while driving(I.E. breathalyzer), I'm totally cool with them being legal.[/QUOTE]
I think this is actually a major contributing factor for why marijuana hasn't been legalized. AFAIK there is no equivalent to the breathalyzer breathe into this tube and get a reading test. Sure there are a million other reasons, but this is a big one.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37598471]I think this is actually a major contributing factor for why marijuana hasn't been legalized. AFAIK there is no equivalent to the breathalyzer breathe into this tube and get a reading test. Sure there are a million other reasons, but this is a big one.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it, they can't put breathalysers into vehicles for prescription opiates, which would impair driving much more than cannabis, yet they're legal.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37600916]I doubt it, they can't put breathalysers into vehicles for prescription opiates, which would impair driving much more than cannabis, yet they're legal.[/QUOTE]
Are officers allowed to detain reckless drivers and then test for drugs afterwards?
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37361608]Sure but a lot of the harms and deaths from heroin stem from the black market and not the substance. Unknown strength (hence overdoses), contamination, dirty paraphenalia, etc. When applied uncontaminated and with the correct dosage and clean paraphenalia heroin is a very safe drug. [/QUOTE]
Don't you need higher and higher doses to get you high the more you use it though?
That can financially destroy you after prolonged use, and being constantly dependent on even another substance can't really be good for you.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;37613877]Don't you need higher and higher doses to get you high the more you use it though?
That can financially destroy you after prolonged use, and being constantly dependent on even another substance can't really be good for you.[/QUOTE]
Yes, your body will build a tolerance to heroin (and most opiates) meaning you need to up the dosage to have the same effect.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;37613877]Don't you need higher and higher doses to get you high the more you use it though?
That can financially destroy you after prolonged use, and being constantly dependent on even another substance can't really be good for you.[/QUOTE]
Yes there is a tolerance that builds up which is one of the reasons people overdose on it - they don't know how much they need to get the same high as before and the product they are getting from the black market is inconsistent in strength so dosage is hard to calculate.
I'd say the main reason that could financially destroy you is because it is black market unregulated and inflated pricing with dubious quality of product.
It is certainly something that needs to be controlled properly and distributed in a controlled environment with help available to calculate dosage or taper down and not just let loose into a black market.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;37613774]Are officers allowed to detain reckless drivers and then test for drugs afterwards?[/QUOTE]
I think they can only detain you if they have suspicions of you being high, such as if you smell like pot, your eyes are red, slurred voice, anything that makes you appear not sober.
On topic, I think that marijuana should be legal, but in the way that alcohol is. You can not be high in public, you can not drive high. As long as its in your own home or in a private place than I think its fine to smoke it. Drugs like meth, cocaine on the other hand should not be legal as they are far more dangerous than the fairly safe marijuana.
no
way
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37613972]
It is certainly something that needs to be controlled properly and distributed in a controlled environment with help available to calculate dosage or taper down.[/QUOTE]
That's not feasible, and not going to happen unless all human beings turn into robots.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;37613877]Don't you need higher and higher doses to get you high the more you use it though?
[/QUOTE]
Everything does? Alcohol, weed, painkillers etc so that's not really an arguement.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;37615003]That's not feasible, and not going to happen unless all human beings turn into robots.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I know, which is why it needs to be legalised and distributed in a non-black market to remove stigma and the main disadvantages associated with it.
[editline]10th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;37614003]Drugs like meth, cocaine on the other hand should not be legal as they are far more dangerous than the fairly safe marijuana.[/QUOTE]
Lots of the things that make those drugs far more dangerous are side effects of the black market and not the substance itself FYI. Regulation would solve a lot of the problems with even the harder drugs. Coca tea is not especially addictive compared to caffeinated beverages, concentrated cocaine powder (high strength coca extract) distributed that way due to convenience (small amount of powder easier to hide than the few kilos of leaves used to produce it), is. Crystal meth would likely not have existed without prohibition [url]http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/how-the-drug-war-created-crystal-meth[/url] and again would benefit from proper regulation as opposed to being distributed by people with basement meth labs.
[QUOTE=Callius;37615024]Everything does? Alcohol, weed, painkillers etc so that's not really an arguement.[/QUOTE]
So you want even [b]more[/b] drugs in circulation?
Not to mention heroin is much more addictive than all of these.
In my opinion, if they where all legalised, there'd be a sudden and high up-rise in deaths as people spring to the idea of taking drugs legally, but then perhaps it'd die down, and drugs would become more like Alcohol, or Tobacco.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37362451]You do know desomorphine and heroin are painkillers, right?[/QUOTE]
Heroin gets metabolized inside the body into morphine. But heroin is easier to manufacture than morphine and it comes in a solid form which makes it useful in the underground market.
Hospitals use both substances but morphine tends to be used much more frequently due to the fact it can be administered intravenously and its easier to control level of the drug already in the blood stream.
doctor gave me tons of the stuff when I broke my leg.
didn't feel any effects
then he gave me ketamine and woaaah
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37616326]In my opinion, if they where all legalised, there'd be a sudden and high up-rise in deaths as people spring to the idea of taking drugs legally, but then perhaps it'd die down, and drugs would become more like Alcohol, or Tobacco.[/QUOTE]
For sure, anyone curious but initially put off by the black market of prohibition would likely go ahead and try what interests them once a regulated market emerged - lots of the dangers such as unknown strength and contamination leading to overdose would be eliminated. A few people could certainly go OTT just like they do with alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, etc. but many currently illegal substances are actually safer to go OTT on than the legal ones providing the strength and cleanness of the product is known.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37616326]In my opinion, if they where all legalised, there'd be a sudden and high up-rise in deaths as people spring to the idea of taking drugs legally, but then perhaps it'd die down, and drugs would become more like Alcohol, or Tobacco.[/QUOTE]
That's not what happens, use of a drug goes when it's legalised, deaths go down even further due to a safer product and means of procurement.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;37616505]Heroin gets metabolized inside the body into morphine. But heroin is easier to manufacture than morphine and it comes in a solid form which makes it useful in the underground market.
Hospitals use both substances but morphine tends to be used much more frequently due to the fact it can be administered intravenously and its easier to control level of the drug already in the blood stream.
doctor gave me tons of the stuff when I broke my leg.
didn't feel any effects
then he gave me ketamine and woaaah[/QUOTE]
Heroin doesn't become morphine. It gets metabolised into a more active form of morphine (the 6-O- acetyl form). The reason why it's much more potent is because it gets into the central nervous system more easily.
[editline]11th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Callius;37615024]Everything does? Alcohol, weed, painkillers etc so that's not really an arguement.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if you actually build a physiological tolerance to weed.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37620892]That's not what happens, use of a drug goes when it's legalised, deaths go down even further due to a safer product and means of procurement.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck does that make any sense?
If all drugs were legalized, there would be more deaths since you're making a [I]dangerous[/I] product more availiable. You can't say, "Oh, well people will just do drugs anyway whether they're legal or not!" since obviously not everyone knows how to aquire drugs. I don't know a drug dealer or how to make my own pot, therefore, even if I wanted to, I can't go get my high. See how that works?
[QUOTE=deaded38;37657608]How the fuck does that make any sense?
If all drugs were legalized, there would be more deaths since you're making a [I]dangerous[/I] product more availiable. You can't say, "Oh, well people will just do drugs anyway whether they're legal or not!" since obviously not everyone knows how to aquire drugs. I don't know a drug dealer or how to make my own pot, therefore, even if I wanted to, I can't go get my high. See how that works?[/QUOTE] Anyone determined enough is going to be able to get their hands on drugs. TamTamJam's point is that you can be assured that there isn't anything mixed in with the drugs you're taking and you'll know the exact strength of whatever you're taking to prevent an accidental overdose. Being able to buy drugs from a store is much safer than meeting a drug dealer in some dark alley in an unsavory part of town.
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