What I would be interested to know is if it contains all these nutrients, it must get them from somewhere. Meaning it would need to be planted in reasonably rich soil would it not?
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41970611][code]
100g Fresh Weight -> 22g +- 1.6g Dried
Food Vitamin C Calcium Iron Protein Vitamin E Beta Carotene
Moringa 257mg 454mg 6.7mg 6.9g 16.7mg 13.9mg
100g Wet
Moringa *1166mg 2061mg 30mg 31g 76mg 63.1mg
100g Dry
Oranges 53.2mg 40mg .1mg .9g .2mg N/A
100g
Milk N/A 113mg N/A 9g N/A N/A
100g
Spinach 28mg 99mg 2.7mg 2.9g 2mg 5.6mg
100g
Carrots 5.9mg 33mg .3mg .9mg .7mg 8.1mg
Almonds N/A 264mg 3.7mg 21g 26mg 1 μg
*subject to some reduction due to cooking
[/code][/QUOTE]
I'm wanting to know where you got the figures for the dried leaves. The source does not show figures for the dried leaves (only mature and young fresh shoots).
Also there is the fact that that very source seems to say that nutrition loss happens as a result of drying:
[quote]Leafy vegetables are often cooked before consumption and dried in preservation during time of scarcity of vegetables. Sun-drying in direct sunshine and under shade are the common practices used in most parts of Africa to preserve vegetables for dry season consumption (Lyimo et al., 1991). However ways of food preparation and preservation may affect significantly the concentration and availability of minerals, vitamins and other essential compounds in food. Some reports have documented the losses of nutrients from vegetables during drying (Yadav and Sehgal, 1997) and cooking (Kachik et al., 1992 and Kidmose et al., 2005). A low temperature oven drying process was applied to dehydrate moringa leaves. The nutrient values were measured and compared to those of freeze dried leaves(Figure 3). The results showed that drying at 50°C for 16 hours maintained most nutrients and phytochemicals in moringa leaves except for vitamin C. The mild-heating and drying process could be achieved using common household facility such as stove to provide a simple and effective way for long term preservation and continuous supply of essential micronutrients.[/quote]
Where are you getting the information that drying them boosts nutritional value?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41974351]I'm wanting to know where you got the figures for the dried leaves. The source does not show figures for the dried leaves (only mature and young fresh shoots).
Also there is the fact that that very source seems to say that nutrition loss happens as a result of drying:
Where are you getting the information that drying them boosts nutritional value?[/QUOTE]
100g fresh turns into 22g dry +- 1.6g.
Therefore you can you can fit the nutrition of another 100/22 wet portions in order to make up one dry one.
[editline]26th August 2013[/editline]
Also I did asterix the Vitamin C in case you didn't notice. Read your own quote again.
[editline]26th August 2013[/editline]
Even if my dry moringa values are slightly off, the wet ones alone trump most of the fruits.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41974415]100g fresh turns into 22g dry +- 1.6g.
Therefore you can you can fit the nutrition of another 100/22 wet portions in order to make up one dry one.[/QUOTE]
do you even know how this works
really the source says that nutrition loss happens when drying, with most of the vitamin C lost
you can't extrapolate from the chart. the figures do not match, especially when the source itself states that you can't do that
"dry matter" just refers to the mass of the plant when all of the water is removed
it is not the same as "drying the leaves" because a lot of nutrients are lost by drying
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41974499]do you even know how this works
really the source says that nutrition loss happens when drying, with most of the vitamin C lost
you can't extrapolate from the chart. the figures do not match, especially when the source itself states that you can't do that
"dry matter" just refers to the mass of the plant when all of the water is removed
it is not the same as "drying the leaves" because a lot of nutrients are lost by drying[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure how this works, I am just using the information that I had in the source. I already qualified the reduction in vitamin C by the asterix, the rest of the nutrients can be preserved by using low temperatures;
[quote]The results showed
that drying at 50°C for 16 hours maintained most nutrients and phytochemicals in
moringa leaves except for vitamin C.[/quote]
So again, even if we take 20% off all my dry values, it trumps the fruits. Even if we are to ignore dry values all together, the wet trumps the fruits, if not individually, then certainly collectively. You are grasping at straws at this point.
this thread is like watching someone being slowly beaten to death
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41974598]I am pretty sure how this works, I am just using the information that I had in the source. I already qualified the reduction in vitamin C by the asterix, the rest of the nutrients can be preserved by using low temperatures;[/quote]
You didn't give the real number though. You just guessed some value and stuck it on without really anything to go for it.
[quote]So again, even if we take 20% off all my dry values, it trumps the fruits. Even if we are to ignore dry values all together, the wet trumps the fruits, if not individually, then certainly collectively. You are grasping at straws at this point.[/QUOTE]
no it's just that you keep inflating the nutritional value of them
it took you 3 (broken) sources to finally come to finding some sort of reputable paper which says "moringa is useful in certain applications"
even then, it says that it should be mixed with other foods and targeted to those in desperate poverty
it is not an excuse to say "this can cover all of my nutritional needs"
stop exaggerating their usefulness
go eat some bananas instead of stirring this into your pot noodle
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41975045]no it's just that you keep inflating the nutritional value of them
it took you 3 (broken) sources to finally come to finding some sort of reputable paper which says "moringa is useful in certain applications"
even then, it says that it should be mixed with other foods and targeted to those in desperate poverty
it is not an excuse to say "this can cover all of my nutritional needs"
stop exaggerating their usefulness
go eat some bananas instead of stirring this into your pot noodle[/QUOTE]
No, it's just that you won't accept anything that isn't spoon fed to you by wikipedia.
Go do some research with Google scholar, you might learn something.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41975081]No, it's just that you won't accept anything that isn't spoon fed to you by wikipedia.
Go do some research with Google scholar, you might learn something.[/QUOTE]
the same google scholar which led you to post several broken or untrustworthy sources, often from companies which sold the product
and which took a considerable deal of time and effort to force you to backpedal from your earlier statements
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41975189]the same google scholar which led you to post several broken or untrustworthy sources, often from companies which sold the product
and which took a considerable deal of time and effort to force you to backpedal from your earlier statements[/QUOTE]
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41975207]Don't hate the player, hate the game.[/QUOTE]
can't you just accept you were had by some phony moringa oil salesman who claims its great despite it not really being that great
were it really that great, it would be grown worldwide by everybody. its not like this is hard, sweet potatoes spread throughout the entire world very rapidly and were extensively cultivated after discovery but the moringa plant (available to the indus valley civilization it seems) never really took off in the same way despite the purported benefits of it
i mean you can hardly criticize me when its painfully obvious you just copypasted the picture and quoted the website without giving a toss about whenever or not the contents were factually accurate
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41975283]can't you just accept you were had by some phony moringa oil salesman who claims its great despite it not really being that great
were it really that great, it would be grown worldwide by everybody. its not like this is hard, sweet potatoes spread throughout the entire world very rapidly and were extensively cultivated after discovery but the moringa plant (available to the indus valley civilization it seems) never really took off in the same way despite the purported benefits of it
i mean you can hardly criticize me when its painfully obvious you just copypasted the picture and quoted the website without giving a toss about whenever or not the contents were factually accurate[/QUOTE]
You are still hung up about that picture? I granted you that posts ago. Now that we have the facts, we know that even wet Moringa has more nutrition overall than any of the mentioned fruits. Why isn't it grown more? I don't know, I can't speak to that, but you certainly aren't getting away with the argument "It isn't widely used in the west therefore it can't be close to as good as you say".
At this point, we are past whatever snake-oil accusations you may of had, at this point you are just being stubborn. I can criticize you because while I am willing to evolve in my beliefs when presented with facts and rebuttle, you seem to steadfastly hold your own. I don't even understand what you are arguing against anymore, social facts aside, this plant is nutritious.
[QUOTE=Ricool06;41971381]The only diminishing factor of Sobotnik's argument is his unnecessarily vulgar swearing and hostility in his posts.
I'm sure more people would feel like they would want to be a part of the discussion were it not for this. There are a portion of facepunch members who seem to take a debate to a personal level and add hostility as a result. And that damages their ability to forward their ideas in a persuasive manner. It is why a lot of people say that a debate about the topic of a thread is not necessary, but simply 'derailing' or 'shitting up the thread'. There is a problem with a community of people when they cannot disagree on a subject without feeling attacked.[/QUOTE]
Let's be completely fair here, the creator of the thread isn't being any less hostile, and for poor reasons at that. You can't tell the only person contributing to the thread in any meaningful way to go away, that just kills any purpose to the thread.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;41981228]Let's be completely fair here, the creator of the thread isn't being any less hostile, and for poor reasons at that. You can't tell the only person contributing to the thread in any meaningful way to go away, that just kills any purpose to the thread.[/QUOTE]
You're right, I was just upset at the 'Snake Oil' Banner.
My mom used to love this stuff when we were kids. I never liked it... IIRC she would boil the leaves in water for stews and stuff.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41981664]You're right, I was just upset at the 'Snake Oil' Banner.[/QUOTE]
Well that was mature... huh.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;41981228]Let's be completely fair here, the creator of the thread isn't being any less hostile, and for poor reasons at that. You can't tell the only person contributing to the thread in any meaningful way to go away, that just kills any purpose to the thread.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to agree to a bit of bias here. I have never seen many of Zenreon's posts, but I've seen my fair share of Sobotnik's, and his hostility here is not a one off. The same could be said for Zenreon, but that could also be untrue as the only person I have seen make routinely antagonistic arguments is Sobotnik.
Don't get me wrong, if I saw anyone else do this, I would call them out on it too. It just so happens that in this thread, Sobotnik is the only one whom I have seen become unnecessarily aggressive before.
[QUOTE=Ricool06;41982275]I'm going to agree to a bit of bias here. I have never seen many of Zenreon's posts, but I've seen my fair share of Sobotnik's, and his hostility here is not a one off. The same could be said for Zenreon, but that could also be untrue as the only person I have seen make routinely antagonistic arguments is Sobotnik.
Don't get me wrong, if I saw anyone else do this, I would call them out on it too. It just so happens that in this thread, Sobotnik is the only one whom I have seen become unnecessarily aggressive before.[/QUOTE]
I can relate to him. The internet is choke-full of crank ideas about GMO. Even about the real dangers of GMO.
i cant believe how big of a deal this is lol
Sobatnik strikes again.
This is such a pointless fucking thread.
[QUOTE=Pvt Anderson;42060821]This is such a pointless fucking thread.[/QUOTE]
Pointless? Yes. Entertaining? Good Grief, yes.
And a bit sad now that I think about it, may just be me being a bit optimistic, but I've always an inkling of hope that we can all sit down together and discuss these matters like gentlemen. Maybe with some virtual tea and the occasional taunt.
nerds
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