Everytime I see european O/U shotguns I think "All that money, and yet a Baikal would have been sufficient"
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37089602]Everytime I see european O/U shotguns I think "All that money, and yet a Baikal would have been sufficient"[/QUOTE]
Pro clay shooters take their guns to the max, with all the bells attached. I seen this one berretta trap go for 25,000 euro.
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37089602]Everytime I see european O/U shotguns I think "All that money, and yet a Baikal would have been sufficient"[/QUOTE]
I once shot a 12/89 Supermagnum out of an O/U Baikal, that thing kicked like a whore on crack.
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37089602]Everytime I see european O/U shotguns I think "All that money, and yet a Baikal would have been sufficient"[/QUOTE]
The making of fine sporting guns has been around for 500 years, sometimes it's just about having something nice.
On the topic of overpriced double barrel hunting shotguns, every hunting store around here that takes itself seriously has at least one gun in the price range of 40-120.000 DKK (6.500-20.000 USD) on a shelf somewhere.
You can buy used guns for a reasonable price, but it is common for a first time hunter to drop 12-18.000 DKK (2-3.000 USD) for a new hunting rifle with a "cheap" scope. I guess it's because it's so hard and expensive to come by a hunting license and own/pay for a place to hunt, that such expenditure on a rifle is pretty much expected anyway.
It's not that the weapons are overpriced, it's that they are precision made and there is an expected quality from them. Hunters, especially stalkers only buy the gun that's right for them and it can cost up to 4 figures, take my oul' lad for example he owns a Sauer 90 with a shortened barrel and some mad telescopic sight, he spent 2,500 euro on the gun alone, and they stopped making the gun in 2008, his is a west German model, one of 150.
[QUOTE=ubertaco;37087155]Are those armor piercing baby cop killing bullets??[/QUOTE]
They are nuclear heat seeking armor piercing bullets in 40 babykiller/mm.
2-4 grand for a hunting gun? Shit, we sell people a Browning X-Bolt with a half-decent Leupold scope for about $1000. Only time someone spends more than about $1500 at the store I work at is when they buy a Sako or a Steyr.
For shotguns sometimes people buy an $1800 Benelli/Beretta, but they usually go for a cheaper Browning/Winchester, and there's one Baikal we have that's a 3.5" magnum semi-auto for $560.
When you buy a 10k+ shotgun, you're not buying it to blast clay pigeons every weekend, your buying it to hang over your mantle and to pass it down in the family for the next hundred years. They are heirloom guns.
[QUOTE=Mabus;37090682]It's not that the weapons are overpriced, it's that they are precision made and there is an expected quality from them. Hunters, especially stalkers only buy the gun that's right for them and it can cost up to 4 figures, take my oul' lad for example he owns a Sauer 90 with a shortened barrel and some mad telescopic sight, he spent 2,500 euro on the gun alone, and they stopped making the gun in 2008, his is a west German model, one of 150.[/QUOTE]
My grandfather owns a custom made rifle, I have no idea what make and model it is, but he can hit a pop can out from 1000 yards. It's pretty awesome.
I think it was something like $1500 for the receiver, $300 for the stock, and another $800 or so for the scope and scope mount, which aren't custom.
[editline]5th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ajacks;37092121]When you buy a 10k+ shotgun, you're not buying it to blast clay pigeons every weekend, your buying it to hang over your mantle and to pass it down in the family for the next hundred years. They are heirloom guns.[/QUOTE]
And you don't buy high end sportscars to expect much more performance and quality out of them either, right?
Is the concept of buying a quality rifle (Tikka, Sako, Schültz & Larsen, Steyr, AI, Sauer, Cz/Brno) with a quality scope (Carl Zeiss, Swarovski Optics, Schmidt & Bender) alien in the states? It seems like people keep buying shitty Marlins, Winchesters and Remingtons, put a shitty Tasco/Burris/Leupold scope on it and get shocked when it fails.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;37092121]When you buy a 10k+ shotgun, you're not buying it to blast clay pigeons every weekend, your buying it to hang over your mantle and to pass it down in the family for the next hundred years. They are heirloom guns.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, no. Pro clay shooters often use $8-15k shotguns and bring them out five times a week.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37092321]Is the concept of buying a quality rifle (Tikka, Sako, Schültz & Larsen, Steyr, AI, Sauer, Cz/Brno) with a quality scope (Carl Zeiss, Swarovski Optics, Schmidt & Bender) alien in the states? It seems like people keep buying shitty Marlins, Winchesters and Remingtons, put a shitty Tasco/Burris/Leupold scope on it and get shocked when it fails.
Yeah, no. Pro clay shooters often use $8-15k shotguns and bring them out five times a week.[/QUOTE]
Most people don't need anything more than "shitty" (most aren't) Marlins, Winchesters and Remingtons and their accompanying average quality scopes.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37092321]Is the concept of buying a quality rifle (Tikka, Sako, Schültz & Larsen, Steyr, AI, Sauer, Cz/Brno) with a quality scope (Carl Zeiss, Swarovski Optics, Schmidt & Bender) alien in the states? It seems like people keep buying shitty Marlins, Winchesters and Remingtons, put a shitty Tasco/Burris/Leupold scope on it and get shocked when it fails.
Yeah, no. Pro clay shooters often use $8-15k shotguns and bring them out five times a week.[/QUOTE]
Why do I need to spend that much when I can spend $100 on a Mosin that I know is never going to fail me?
[QUOTE=Honesty;37092321]Is the concept of buying a quality rifle (Tikka, Sako, Schültz & Larsen, Steyr, AI, Sauer, Cz/Brno) with a quality scope (Carl Zeiss, Swarovski Optics, Schmidt & Bender) alien in the states? It seems like people keep buying shitty Marlins, Winchesters and Remingtons, put a shitty Tasco/Burris/Leupold scope on it and get shocked when it fails.[/QUOTE]
The average shooter can't afford to drop all that cash on a rifle and then turn around and spend nearly the exact same amount (or more in some cases) on optics. I don't know what you do for a living, but the majority of us can't drop a thousand dollars or more every time we head out to the gun shop. There's nothing wrong with a nice Marlin or Winchester. I'm not really a big optics guy in the first place so I'm not gonna argue with you on those, but seriously - you need to cool it. The first thing that popped into my head was pompous jackass when I read your post. Nobody's going to argue you down on whether or not Tikka or Sako make nice firearms (they do), but you're just way too arrogant about it.
I think you're forgetting one of the most important factors in shooting and owning firearms - having fun. If a Marlin makes someone happy, what's the difference? If European weapons are your cup of tea, that's fine - you go right ahead, but don't take a shit on other people just because they don't conform to your opinions. I'd take my .45-70 any day over a Tikka.
Hmm, it could be because most countries in Europe don't allow people to own a lot of different guns (bolt action rifle and double barrel shotgun only in most places), so instead of buying a lot of cheaper guns, shooters just blow all their gun-money on the one gun they are actually allowed to have and use.
Also we aren't allowed to have fun with guns :(
Today i had the pleasure of using a Barrett M82
Review: Holy shit
Is an Enfield really a viable option if you don't want to reload? I really don't want to spend $1.25/shot. I've heard surplus is non-existant/really bad, is this true?
i want a good side by side
how do
[QUOTE=cardfan212;37093521]Is an Enfield really a viable option if you don't want to reload? I really don't want to spend $1.25/shot. I've heard surplus is non-existant/really bad, is this true?[/QUOTE]
yeah pretty much all non-mark8 the surplus was used up about 15 years ago. you can use the mark 8 but it's meant for the vickers and if you use it in an enfield you'll tear up the barrel since it uses cordan instead of nitrocellulose-based powder. You can get PRVI .303 for about .85 a shot though, not exactly cheap to feed but not too terrible.
Of course you can always get an Ishapore 2A1 in 7.62x51
I'll probably stick with getting an SKS for now I think.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;37092288]My grandfather owns a custom made rifle, I have no idea what make and model it is, but he can hit a pop can out from 1000 yards. It's pretty awesome.
I think it was something like $1500 for the receiver, $300 for the stock, and another $800 or so for the scope and scope mount, which aren't custom.
[editline]5th August 2012[/editline]
And you don't buy high end sportscars to expect much more performance and quality out of them either, right?[/QUOTE]
I didn't say they were not high quality or amazing performers, but your average person who buys a $10k+ shotgun will use it very occasionally and because of it's extremely high craftsmanship will most likely be an heirloom. Obviously professional trap shooters have very expensive guns, but your average consumer of $10k+ shotguns is not a professional trap shooter, they are a 50+ year old hunter/collector with money to spend and a glass fronted gun cabneit in their greatroom to show it off in.
[QUOTE=Neat!;37093701]i want a good side by side
how do[/QUOTE]
Sbs for fun: Baikal
Sbs for serious business: Beretta and/or German from that valley I don't remember the name of right now.
sbs for I AM A FINE GENTLEMAN AND HEREBY REQUIRE THE FINEST FIREARM AVAILABLE: Purdey. (The Purdey "rule" is that if you have to ask for the price, you probably can't afford it)
[QUOTE=massn7;37093349]The average shooter can't afford to drop all that cash on a rifle and then turn around and spend nearly the exact same amount (or more in some cases) on optics. I don't know what you do for a living, but the majority of us can't drop a thousand dollars or more every time we head out to the gun shop.[/QUOTE]
You americans can drop all that cash on a rifle and optics, but you prefer to own several glocks, 1911s, Nuggets and a mediocre remington 700 instead of owning a few, very select firearms that are topnotch.
European gunbuyer: So, what's the reputation of this manufacturer?
American gunbuyer: 'Ow maney can ah fit into mah truck b'foh Obama takes 'em away?
[QUOTE=massn7;37093349]The average shooter can't afford to drop all that cash on a rifle and then turn around and spend nearly the exact same amount (or more in some cases) on optics. I don't know what you do for a living, but the majority of us can't drop a thousand dollars or more every time we head out to the gun shop. There's nothing wrong with a nice Marlin or Winchester. I'm not really a big optics guy in the first place so I'm not gonna argue with you on those, but seriously - you need to cool it. The first thing that popped into my head was pompous jackass when I read your post. Nobody's going to argue you down on whether or not Tikka or Sako make nice firearms (they do), but you're just way too arrogant about it.
I think you're forgetting one of the most important factors in shooting and owning firearms - having fun. If a Marlin makes someone happy, what's the difference? If European weapons are your cup of tea, that's fine - you go right ahead, but don't take a shit on other people just because they don't conform to your opinions. I'd take my .45-70 any day over a Tikka.[/QUOTE]
You get much more enjoyment out of a rifle with a smooth action, great accuracy and good looks than some cheapo Rem 700 with a shitty stock, silver soldered bolt handle and a slow, gritty bolt travel.
[QUOTE=Neat!;37093701]i want a good side by side
how do[/QUOTE]
Get an O/U, they're better in every way.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094188]You get much more enjoyment out of a rifle with a smooth action, great accuracy and good looks than some cheapo Rem 700 with a shitty stock, silver soldered bolt handle and a slow, gritty bolt travel.
Get an O/U, they're better in every way.[/QUOTE]
Apparently the "professionals" (my former classmates and teachers) disagree and claim that S/S's are better.
You guys are getting pretty defensive for no real reason. You can spend $600 on a rifle or $3,000 on a rifle, at the end of the day it's all about having fun with them. No one is saying low cost weapons are better than expensive weapons here.
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37094245]Apparently the "professionals" (my former classmates and teachers) disagree and claim that S/S's are better.[/QUOTE]
O/Us have a more natural line of aim, better balance and the barrels are aligned better as opposed to S/Ss where they are slightly pointed towards each other.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;37094257]You guys are getting pretty defensive for no real reason. You can spend $600 on a rifle or $3,000 on a rifle, at the end of the day it's all about having fun with them. No one is saying low cost weapons are better than expensive weapons here.[/QUOTE]
There is a clear difference quality-wise between a Sako 85 and a R700.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094281]
There is a clear difference quality-wise between a Sako 85 and a R700.[/QUOTE]
Because I said there wasn't?
[QUOTE=DrBreen;37093473]Today i had the pleasure of using a Barrett M82
Review: Holy shit[/QUOTE]
Arent you portuguese aswell?
If yes, how the fuck did you do it? Tell me now.
(great timing for you to be banned, goddamn it)
[QUOTE=Ajacks;37094289]Because I said there wasn't?[/QUOTE]
:downs:
If your main reason to own firearms is "fun" then you obviously have no need for a quality firearm.
If you intend to go hunting, doing sport shooting or long range precision target shooting then there's kind of a need for something that won't fail, break or not work.
If you need a $3,000 rifle to have fun shooting, all the power to you. But I don't think that anyone in this thread shoots guns for anything other than enjoyment. Even competition shooters enjoy their trade, so having fun, whatever that may be to you, is pretty important.
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