If all you do is shoot bottles in your backyard then I can obviously see why you don't want to spend thousands on the gun and optics.
Stop twisting my words, I'm saying that you kind of want something you can rely on and that performs well when doing things like hunting. I can find the quality, reliability and feel of a good rifle I want in a Tikka or Sauer. I can't do the same with a Rem 700 or Weatherby.
Personal preference is one thing, and it is understandable that a higher priced Tikka cycles smoother, has lower tolerances, and a higher quality fit and finish, but to say a Remington 700 rifle is not a good performing hunting rifle is a bit of a stretch.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094188]You get much more enjoyment out of a rifle with a smooth action, great accuracy and good looks than some cheapo Rem 700 with a shitty stock, silver soldered bolt handle and a slow, gritty bolt travel.
Get an O/U, they're better in every way.[/QUOTE]
I don't like Remington either. Way to miss the point.
[quote=Campin Carl]You americans can drop all that cash on a rifle and optics, but you prefer to own several glocks, 1911s, Nuggets and a mediocre remington 700 instead of owning a few, very select firearms that are topnotch.
European gunbuyer: So, what's the reputation of this manufacturer?
American gunbuyer: 'Ow maney can ah fit into mah truck b'foh Obama takes 'em away? [/quote]
Where at any point did I call out Europeans? I was speaking to and about him and him only. In any case, there are plenty of 'us Americans' that do just that. Purchase a $3000 rifle along with a set of optics that cost nearly as much and make it their only firearm (or at least their only rifle). The majority of us really don't care if we're able to drop a deer at 1000 meters with sub-moa accuracy or not, so yeah, we buy up all the "shitty" guns and have a blast. I'd rather a variety of guns that I can have fun with or have more historical meaning and value to me than one or two that do the same thing and cost me three times as much money.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094483]If all you do is shoot bottles in your backyard then I can obviously see why you don't want to spend thousands on the gun and optics.
Stop twisting my words, I'm saying that you kind of want something you can rely on and that performs well when doing things like hunting. I can find the quality, reliability and feel of a good rifle I want in a Tikka or Sauer. I can't do the same with a Rem 700 or Weatherby.[/QUOTE]
Tikka, while they are good rifles, aren't in the same tier as Sako, Sauer, or Steyr. A Tikka is an alternative to a Browning X-Bolt, Winchester M70, or a higher-end Remington 700, based off the $600-$800 price tag of a Tikka. That being said, I'd take a Tikka over a Remmy or Winchester any day, but there's some serious comparisons to be made between a Tikka T3 and a Browning X-Bolt. Tikka, however, will NEVER compare to the likes of Sako, Sauer, or Steyr.
As for Weatherby, as far as I know they're still a family-run business dedicated to quality and reliability. They're also rather popular in the circuit for cheap big-game rifles if I remember correctly.
A Tikka T3 is [I]nowhere[/I] close to being in the same boat as a Winny Mod 70 or R700 (no matter how whored up).
Weatherby's are a quality gun to my understanding and, in my eyes, an excellent alternative to a remmy or even a higher end rifle. I don't understand why you guys are arguing as Remington's are not comparable to Sako's, etc... because they are not as expensive. Any rifle will kill things sufficiently for a hunt. I know many who take out their nagants for that purpose. All Sako's are, are a refinement for those who are really serious about the sport or, likewise, rely on the gun for food. Either way a gun is only useful if you own it, so price is a major factor in rifle performance from my point of view. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
[img]http://www.intersport-bogstadveien.no/images/tikka%20t3%20sporter.jpg[/img]
Really want one of these in .308 Win with a 24" barrel.
Either that or a Super Varmint.
[t]http://www.shootreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/T3-Super-Varmint.jpg[/t]
DuraCoated, though.. stainless steel does not belong on rifles.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094895]A Tikka T3 is [I]nowhere[/I] close to being in the same boat as a Winny Mod 70 or R700 (no matter how whored up).[/QUOTE]
They all run a comparable price range ($600-$1000) and therefore they will be compared to each other. That being said, at work when someone asks for a gun in that range I always recommend them a Tikka, because I know it's got a superior quality to the Remmy. The Win M70, since the buyout by Browning, isn't as shit as it was in the '80s, and it's actually often the most expensive of the choices, running $800-$1000, and using a solid Mauser bolt. It's also the only one of the 4 that has absolutely no option for a detachable magazine, even Remmy makes the 700 DM models.
The T3 sporter is sexy as hell, too bad I don't do Jaktfelt often enough to aquire for that single purpose.
If I did, I'd get in it 6.5x55. Maybe I should sell/destruct one my of Krags.
Please don't get the Super Varmint unless you plan on getting a different stock for it. It feels like a cheap chinese airsoft knockoff
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37095164]The T3 sporter is sexy as hell, too bad I don't do Jaktfelt often enough to aquire for that single purpose.
If I did, I'd get in it 6.5x55. Maybe I should sell/destruct one my of Krags.
Please don't get the Super Varmint unless you plan on getting a different stock for it. It feels like a cheap chinese airsoft knockoff[/QUOTE]
I'd use the Sporter for long range shooting. Intending to get a Vepr Hunter in .308Win for hunting.
And my friend has a Super Varmint in .308Win, shot it a couple times. I like it, to be honest.
I feel like interrupting this conversation with some politics.
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea for this thread.
So about that shooting!
The Batmanshooting or that new one today? Either it way it seems like Norway is still on the top of the list with our 69 killstreak.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37095195]I'd use the Sporter for long range shooting. Intending to get a Vepr Hunter in .308Win for hunting.
And my friend has a Super Varmint in .308Win, shot it a couple times. I like it, to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, fuckit, I have a new firearms-application just waiting to get filled out.
Just saw a video of the T3 sporter, it uses the same hideous plastic mags that the rest of them use, biggest turn-off ever.
Man it sucks that you need to apply per-firearm on what you want and have a limit, up here now anyone with a license can just buy whatever rifle or shotgun they want and the government doesn't know/care what it is, and you can own a shitload of handguns/"assault rifles" that aren't listed as banned, but the government stalks each one of them through registration and generally makes it a nuisance to try and get them.
[QUOTE=Honesty;37094281]O/Us have a more natural line of aim, better balance and the barrels are aligned better as opposed to S/Ss where they are slightly pointed towards each other. [/QUOTE]
A lot of people won't believe me when I say this, but the top barrel of an o/u will actually recoil upward before the round leaves the barrel. The bottom barrel recoils straight back into your hand (pretty much the same reason people like Rhino revolvers, but amplified) but the top doesn't have the same amount of support from your hand.
You can really see the effects of that in high powered derringers, they're pretty well amplified when you don't have a stock or forward hand
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;37097660]A lot of people won't believe me when I say this, but the top barrel of an o/u will actually recoil upward before the round leaves the barrel. The bottom barrel recoils straight back into your hand (pretty much the same reason people like Rhino revolvers, but amplified) but the top doesn't have the same amount of support from your hand.
You can really see the effects of that in high powered derringers, they're pretty well amplified when you don't have a stock or forward hand[/QUOTE]
Perhaps that's why a lot of the competition Browning O/Us we sell have porting on the end of the top barrel.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;37094457]If you need a $3,000 rifle to have fun shooting, all the power to you. But I don't think that anyone in this thread shoots guns for anything other than enjoyment. Even competition shooters enjoy their trade, so having fun, whatever that may be to you, is pretty important.[/QUOTE]
I do a lot of hunting but really 99.99999% of my shooting is for fun. I have rifles that have never even been hunting. My .410, Mossberg 500, .30-30 lever gun, and Remington 700 are the only 4 that have actually seen any killing action from me.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;37097635]Man it sucks that you need to apply per-firearm on what you want and have a limit, up here now anyone with a license can just buy whatever rifle or shotgun they want and the government doesn't know/care what it is, and you can own a shitload of handguns/"assault rifles" that aren't listed as banned, but the government stalks each one of them through registration and generally makes it a nuisance to try and get them.[/QUOTE]
On one hand it sucks that we have to apply per firearm, on the other we have free sale and no extra (other than the regular ones) taxes for silencers.
Weatherbys have more muzzle blast than other firearms I have noticed.
[QUOTE=Campin Carl;37094245]Apparently the "professionals" (my former classmates and teachers) disagree and claim that S/S's are better.[/QUOTE]
From what I've seen from my Father and his friends Side by side's are the superior gentleman's weapon, while according to my friends and business partners under and over are the way to go. In the end to me it's personal preference, and I own side by side, so fuck it, sure why not?
Side by sides have issues where each barrel doesn't hit the same location
So what like, a little to the left for the left barrel and a little to the right for the right barrel? haha I'm sure the difference is negligible. Although considering the preference of under and overs by lunatic pro clay shooters I'm sure it matters greatly in competition. Shame they couldn't be so professional in their own fitness most of em are fat as fuck.
For hunting they say SBS is best, but for clays, O/U is the shiznit.
The "issue" with SbS's are that they when properly aligned is that you aim with the middle of them, and you hit perfect center at a certain distance (let's say 35 meters) with your right barrel, you will hit at the right side of your target at less than 35 meters, then past 35 you will hit to left of the target.
This issue is even bigger with double-rifles.
I might buy this tomorrow, if I like it...
*EDIT SWEET JESUS PAGE SHREDDER*
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6MxUkl.jpg[/IMG]
What's the difference between a carbine, a rifle and a PDW?
[QUOTE=Jarate Lover;37098697]What's the difference between a carbine, a rifle and a PDW?[/QUOTE]
A carbine is a compact rifle, a rifle is a rifle, a PDW is a convenient weapon used to defend yourself while in danger.
A carbine is a rifle with a shortened barrel, a rifle is a rifle, a PDW is a compact firearm, usually in a very small high velocity caliber that can defeat body armour
[QUOTE=Jarate Lover;37098697]What's the difference between a carbine, a rifle and a PDW?[/QUOTE]
Rifles fire full size rounds such as .308
An M-14 would be a rifle
Carbines are smaller, and fire mid-size rounds like 5.56 and 7.62x39
M-16 or AK-47 is a good example of a carbine
PDWs are self defense weapons that shoot small rifle or usually pistol rounds, like 9mm or 5.7mm
Guns like the P90 or MP-5 would fall into this category
MP5K you could argue for being a PDW but most MP5s are submachine guns
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;37098958]MP5K you could argue for being a PDW but most MP5s are submachine guns[/QUOTE]
MP5k could also be considered a pistol (a stupid one, but a pistol nonetheless)
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