[QUOTE=Peavy262;19890903]See, your argument is just as invalid as his.
If you can make use of the seven string, than what the fuck is the problem here.
[/QUOTE]
Because the only reason you're going to make use of it is because you want the seven string in the first place. 6 strings would work just fine, if not better than the seven string. [U]Nobody[/U] needs a seven string guitar because a six string does the job perfectly fine, the only reason people "use them correctly" is because the buy the guitar first, and then learn to make use of it afterwards, it's not like they actually needed it in the first place, they just wanted it. And even when are using it, they are still medicore, inf act, they would probably sound better on the six string anyways, because they can apply their skills to something more compact and conveniently designed.
Before what's his name replies back with "but nobody needs a guitar" we're not talking about whether you need a guitar, we're talking about whether you need a 7 string, or if a 6 string is enough for playing music.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19891013]Because the only reason you're going to make use of it is because you want the seven string in the first place. 6 strings would work just fine, if not better than the seven string. [U]Nobody[/U] needs a seven string guitar because a six string does the job perfectly fine, the only reason people "use them correctly" is because the buy the guitar first, and then learn to make use of it afterwards, it's not like they actually needed it in the first place, they just wanted it. And even when are using it, they are still medicore, inf act, they would probably sound better on the six string anyways, because they can apply their skills to something more compact and conveniently designed.
Before what's his name replies back with "but nobody needs a guitar" we're not talking about whether you need a guitar, we're talking about whether you need a 7 string, or if a 6 string is enough for playing music.[/QUOTE]
Whatever you say chief.
This is a pointless argument.
You have your opinions I have mine we're never going to agree so lets just drop our argument.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;19890967]
A dishwasher is a lot more inefficient to make than a washcloth.
A calculator is a lot more inefficient to make than paper.
A car is a lot more inefficient to make than to walk.
[/QUOTE]
Well we're not talking about appliances and vehicles here, pal. We're taking about instruments. Instruments don't have a practical purpose, they are a leisure item. A better example to use would be the difference between a 20 speed and a 30 speed bike.
Now since I'm all done correcting your argument for you, I need to get back to the real discussion.
[editline]04:14AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Peavy262;19891081]
This is a pointless argument.
You have your opinions I have mine we're never going to agree so lets just drop our argument.[/QUOTE]
I agree, the only use I see for a 7 string anyways is for metal, and I don't like metal.
Truce, as long as nobody asks me to make a goddamn 7 string ever again.
[QUOTE=cherry gmod;19820055]It's probably my being ignorant (and not playing metal)
[/QUOTE]
Seven strings aren't only for metal
[editline]11:16PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19891096]
I agree, the only use I see for a 7 string anyways is for metal, and I don't like metal.
Truce, as long as nobody asks me to make a goddamn 7 string ever again.[/QUOTE]
I play seven strings and I don't even play metal that much
Blues and Jazz basically
I think FP needs to go back to Elementary when we learned the difference between wants and needs... You don't need a guitar. You don't need any strings, you [I]want [/I]a guitar, you [I]want [/I]a seventh string. Why does it bother you if someone is making use of an extra string? The guitar was an invention created by the marriage of the bass and the banjo. So there are basses... and there are banjos... why did we [I]need [/I]the guitar?
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19891340]I think FP needs to go back to Elementary when we learned the difference between wants and needs... You don't need a guitar. You don't need any strings, you [I]want [/I]a guitar, you [I]want [/I]a seventh string. Why does it bother you if someone is making use of an extra string? The guitar was an invention created by the marriage of the bass and the banjo. So there are basses... and there are banjos... why did we [I]need [/I]the guitar?[/QUOTE]
Actually, the guitar was first developed and used in the 12th century (That's right, the guitar is almost 1000 years old at this point). Banjos in the 18th century. Bass guitars were developed in the 20th century. I'd say you're a long way off with that marriage thing.
[QUOTE=Mac2468;19810907]That's so dildos.[/QUOTE]
[pic]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/6/25/633815647868554625-dildos.jpg[/pic]
I agree. I think.
Btw, 8 strings FTW.
Haters gonna hate. If you can't handle 7 strings, stick to 6.
I took a gamble and bought a 7 because I wanted to try something new, you know, because my mind was open to new things. Ever since I got it I haven't put it down, I've written enough riffs and played with enough chordal ideas to write an album that would be very difficult to recreate with a 6.
The point is they have their place in certain hands, and metal bands give them a bad name just because they use them to be brutally low and increase their penis size. They are no less of an instrument, they are just different.
A good example of good use of a 7 string is John Petrucci's playing. Rather than being "HARDCOAR HEVY METALZ!" he actually uses it sensibly. Except in The Dark Eternal Night. But that song's awesome so who cares?
A 7 string guitar can be used well, but it has a bad reputation thanks to bad metal bands and is pointless for the average guitar player. It has its perks, but it can also be really pointless.
/thread
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19890162]Guitars have always been six strings, that's why. Just about all guitar related music is written for six strings. If guitar's had been five strings from the start, then I'd think 6 string guitars are stupid and pointless. And if that were the case (if all guitar music had been written for 5 string guitars) they [I]would[/I] be stupid and pointless.
[editline]03:25AM[/editline]
:Dawkins102:[/QUOTE]
Okay right, he's making efficient use of all the strings there so I can't see what your problem is.
Besides it's his fucking bass let him do what he wants with it.
[editline]01:07PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19891013][U]Nobody[/U] needs a seven string guitar because a six string does the job perfectly fine, the only reason people "use them correctly" is because the buy the guitar first, and then learn to make use of it afterwards, it's not like they actually needed it in the first place, they just wanted it.[/QUOTE]
You dont [i] need [/i] to make guitars you just [i] want [/i] to.
I rest my case.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19890692]Nobody [I]needs [/I]a seven string guitar, how many times to I have to say this. Nobody [I]needs[/I] any guitars, or music at all for that matter. If you can look at that guy's playing and honestly facepalm just because of his instrument, I think you need to go to the doctor and have your brains checked out.[/QUOTE]
You're disrespectful.
[editline]04:32PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19891340]I think FP needs to go back to Elementary when we learned the difference between wants and needs... You don't need a guitar. You don't need any strings, you [I]want [/I]a guitar, you [I]want [/I]a seventh string. Why does it bother you if someone is making use of an extra string? The guitar was an invention created by the marriage of the bass and the banjo. So there are basses... and there are banjos... why did we [I]need [/I]the guitar?[/QUOTE]
I, and many others, have a [U][B]strong [/B][/U]need to express theselves musically.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19891340]I think FP needs to go back to Elementary when we learned the difference between wants and needs... You don't need a guitar. You don't need any strings, you [I]want [/I]a guitar, you [I]want [/I]a seventh string. Why does it bother you if someone is making use of an extra string? The guitar was an invention created by the marriage of the bass and the banjo. So there are basses... and there are banjos... why did we [I]need [/I]the guitar?[/QUOTE]
I think xxFoxxx needs to understand what context is. Obviously, OP and everyone but you is talking about what advantages a 7 string guitar would bring, stop being literal.
I want a 7 string guitar badly.
I'm tired of fucking with my Floyd every time I want to play some serious metal.
[QUOTE=CupUp;19903602]I want a 7 string guitar badly.
I'm tired of fucking with my Floyd every time I want to play some serious metal.[/QUOTE]
Meh.. serious metal is all about E standard. Seriously. :rock:
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;19903678]Meh.. serious metal is all about E standard. Seriously. :rock:[/QUOTE]
For thrash and heavy metal maybe. But when I have the urge to play some Lamb of God or DevilDriver, it's just not right for the guitar to be in E standard.
I'm tired of arguing semantics. Nobody needs a guitar. You just don't. Period. If all the guitars in the world caught on fire tomorrow, something tells me the human race would go on, and would not suffer destruction at the hands of some lack-of-guitar-related plague.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19904375]I'm tired of arguing semantics. Nobody needs a guitar. You just don't. Period. If all the guitars in the world caught on fire tomorrow, something tells me the human race would go on, and would not suffer destruction at the hands of some lack-of-guitar-related plague.[/QUOTE]
and now you're done.
Git!
SCRAM!
Don't get me wrong, I love music. I love playing the guitar. I would give up a great number of other things to keep my music and my instruments, but the point is that searching for the point behind a musical instrument is futile. The seven string guitar exists because someone thought they could make use of it musically, just like the reason the guitar was invented in the first place. End of.
[QUOTE=mynames2long;19896226]You're disrespectful.
[/QUOTE]
Says you.
[QUOTE=mynames2long;19896265][U][I][B]lT IS JUST NOISE.
[/B][/I][/U][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19904375]I'm tired of arguing semantics. Nobody needs a guitar. You just don't. Period. If all the guitars in the world caught on fire tomorrow, something tells me the human race would go on, and would not suffer destruction at the hands of some lack-of-guitar-related plague.[/QUOTE]
Thanks god we have people with the know how to make new ones :3:
[editline]02:31AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shibbey;19896496]I think xxFoxxx needs to understand what context is. Obviously, OP and everyone but you is talking about what advantages a 7 string guitar would bring, stop being literal.[/QUOTE]
Did anybody else lose a large amount of respect for his argument after him saying that the guitar came after the banjo and bass?
I guess I'm the only one :saddowns:
The guitar is one of the earliest stringed instruments, and has changed very little in 900 years of being around.
[editline]02:34AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19904523] just like the reason the guitar was invented in the first place. End of.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong. I don't think the first person to design the guitar was some uneducated moron. The person was obviously extremely intelligent and very mathematically savvy to be able to figure out something as complicated as fret scales.
The guitar was probably developed by numerous people over time, not by anybody thinking "I bet I could great use of this musically" I guarantee the first person to create the guitar in it's modern form was a tinkerer, not a musician.
I would say it's one of the instruments that has changed the most. I was under the impression the modern classical guitar evolved from a 4 or 5 course instrument (with 2 strings for each course as in a 12 string guitar) and gradually became more like todays. There have always been extended range classical guitars (including 7 strings, 8 strings and far beyond), and then all of a sudden some guy decides to build an electric version of the guitar, and we make all these crazy changes like adding tremolo systems, effects pedals, solid bodies, and so on.
Why shouldn't instruments change anyway? Those open-minded enough can at least appreciate new ideas and those who aren't can keep playing the same old thing.
[QUOTE=TheGuru;19907818]I would say it's one of the instruments that has changed the most. I was under the impression the modern classical guitar evolved from a 4 or 5 course instrument (with 2 strings for each course as in a 12 string guitar) and gradually became more like todays. There have always been extended range classical guitars (including 7 strings, 8 strings and far beyond), and then all of a sudden some guy decides to build an electric version of the guitar, and we make all these crazy changes like adding tremolo systems, effects pedals, solid bodies, and so on.
Why shouldn't instruments change anyway? Those open-minded enough can at least appreciate new ideas and those who aren't can keep playing the same old thing.[/QUOTE]
7 & and 8 strings have only come around from about the 1700's. The guitar in it's more modern form (that includes today's "classical" and "romantic" guitar) has been around for a lot longer than that.
Tremolos and all those "crazy changes" are not big at all. You may think they look different, but the principle of it is still exactly the same. When it comes down to it, guitar doesn't really have many ways to change. It works the way it works and always will. Anything other than that is features and cosmetics.
There's a huge difference between guitar-like instruments and the guitar. Guitar-like instruments have been around for almost 1,000 years, but the guitar as we know it today (the classical guitar) was only standardized in the 19th century.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19908252]7 & and 8 strings have only come around from about the 1700's. The guitar in it's more modern form (that includes today's "classical" and "romantic" guitar) has been around for a lot longer than that.
Tremolos and all those "crazy changes" are not big at all. You may think they look different, but the principle of it is still exactly the same. When it comes down to it, guitar doesn't really have many ways to change. It works the way it works and always will. Anything other than that is features and cosmetics.[/QUOTE]
How is an extra string much of a change? I mean the principle of the guitar is still exactly the same. My 7 string works exactly the same as my 6 string guitar. Features and cosmetics-wise it's pretty much exactly the same as any other Ibanez RG 6 string.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19908794]There's a huge difference between guitar-like instruments and the guitar. Guitar-like instruments have been around for almost 1,000 years, but the guitar as we know it today (the classical guitar) was only standardized in the 19th century.[/QUOTE]
Here's a guitar from the 1500's
[IMG]http://www.classicalguitarmidi.com/vihuela.gif[/IMG]
Other than cosmetics, that is the same as a modern 12 string guitar in the way it works. (obviously it would feel different while playing it because of the dimensions)
But anyway, this trailed off into this neck of the woods because you said the guitar was created as mix of the banjo and bass, which couldn't be more wrong.
[editline]05:13AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheGuru;19909631]How is an extra string much of a change? I mean the principle of the guitar is still exactly the same. My 7 string works exactly the same as my 6 string guitar. Features and cosmetics-wise it's pretty much exactly the same as any other Ibanez RG 6 string.[/QUOTE]
My problem still reigns more with production convenience than with the idea itself. Anywhere else this argument has gone is me correcting other things (not specifically about 7 strings) people have said.
That being said, I still think 7 strings is sort of a silly concept and will never purchase or make one. The extra width added to the neck would probably hinder me a bit while I'm trying to play certain chords. I'd use the extra string if I had one, but I'd rather not have one in the first place.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19910033]My problem still reigns more with production convenience than with the idea itself. Anywhere else this argument has gone is me correcting other things (not specifically about 7 strings) people have said.
That being said, I still think 7 strings is sort of a silly concept and will never purchase or make one. The extra width added to the neck would probably hinder me a bit while I'm trying to play certain chords. I'd use the extra string if I had one, but I'd rather not have one in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Well duh you make guitars, you don't play them. You have a fair enough point as a luthier, but I don't think you have a place in the discussion if you're just going to bash sevens because they're an inconvenience to make.
Also the width of the neck on my 7 string Ibanez is actually smaller than my 6 string classicals.
I've been gradually learning to play. Been learning those generic early rock rymths and tones, I find it very hard to move my pinky two frets down from my ring finger and index finger, I can imagine a considerably thicker neck making that even harder :saddowns:
[editline]09:18AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheGuru;19911800]
Also the width of the neck on my 7 string Ibanez is actually smaller than my 6 string classicals.[/QUOTE]
I have a dislike for acoustics for that reason. The necks are pretty hefty, I like mine thin. Acoustics almost always have thicker nut widths than 6 string electrics.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;19912281]I've been gradually learning to play. Been learning those generic early rock rymths and tones, I find it very hard to move my pinky two frets down from my ring finger and index finger, I can imagine a considerably thicker neck making that even harder :saddowns:
[editline]09:18AM[/editline]
I have a dislike for acoustics for that reason. The necks are pretty hefty, I like mine thin. Acoustics almost always have thicker nut widths than 6 string electrics.[/QUOTE]
If you have a proper technique the extra width should make it no more difficult.
I also dislike acoustics but because they generally have a higher action and are just more cumbersome to play. The neck on a 7 string Ibanez will be among the thinnest you will play, of course it is slightly wider. But the thin-ness is what makes it sex to play on.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19904375]I'm tired of arguing semantics. Nobody needs a guitar. You just don't. Period. If all the guitars in the world caught on fire tomorrow, something tells me the human race would go on, and would not suffer destruction at the hands of some lack-of-guitar-related plague.[/QUOTE]
How about human creativity and self created beauty being destroyed, cause that wouldn't have a disheartening effect on humanity at all.
Without music, life would be insanity.
[QUOTE=xxFoxxx;19904375]I'm tired of arguing semantics. Nobody needs a guitar. You just don't. Period. If all the guitars in the world caught on fire tomorrow, something tells me the human race would go on, and would not suffer destruction at the hands of some lack-of-guitar-related plague.[/QUOTE]
I need a guitar. I would go crazy without one.
[editline]10:12PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheGuru;19912470]If you have a proper technique the extra width should make it no more difficult.
I also dislike acoustics but because they generally have a higher action and are just more cumbersome to play. The neck on a 7 string Ibanez will be among the thinnest you will play, of course it is slightly wider. But the thin-ness is what makes it sex to play on.[/QUOTE]
I think thin necks aren't very nice to play. I LOVE Gibson necks, they are perfect for me.
[QUOTE=TheGuru;19912470]If you have a proper technique the extra width should make it no more difficult.
I also dislike acoustics but because they generally have a higher action and are just more cumbersome to play. The neck on a 7 string Ibanez will be among the thinnest you will play, of course it is slightly wider. But the thin-ness is what makes it sex to play on.[/QUOTE]
All my guitars have relatively thin necks, but weather you like it or not, an extra string will add on about 1/4 of an inch at least compared to a 6 string guitar of similar specs.
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