Islam and Identity - General

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926338] And when was that last time you saw that in the past 1000 years?[/QUOTE] What's that got to do with the price of coal? Drop your stupid anti Muslim spiel, you're not going to persuade us to become bigots

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy18;23926473]OP, the article mentions Muslim conquer of locations as if Christianity and other religions didn't do the same thing. What happened to the Crusades?[/QUOTE] The Byzantines requested help from the Catholic nations because their lands were being conquered by invading Muslim armies. Maybe you should actually educate yourself instead of just imagining all those big crusader bullies striking down innocent helpless Muslims left and right. [editline]07:38PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23926492]What's that got to do with the price of coal? Drop your stupid anti Muslim spiel, you're not going to persuade us to become bigots[/QUOTE] I might not persuade you, that doesn't mean some on the fence people won't be interested in learning more, there's also nothing bigoted about recognizing a racist, facist ideology.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926497]I might not persuade you, that doesn't mean some on the fence people won't be interested in learning more.[/QUOTE] Learning is the antithesis of your mindset. I want to take you into a room and introduce you to my friends Adam, Taniyat and Sarah. After an hour and a half of hanging out with these lovely people, you'll either stop posting Islamophobic rants on gaming forums or you'll reveal yourself to be quite an unreasonable and unpleasant person.

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23926545]Learning is the antithesis of your mindset. I want to take you into a room and introduce you to my friends Adam, Taniyat and Sarah. After an hour and a half of hanging out with these lovely people, you'll either stop posting Islamophobic rants on gaming forums or you'll reveal yourself to be quite an unreasonable and unpleasant person.[/QUOTE] Nothing but ad hominem again, maybe you have a nice Muslim friend, doesn't change what Islam is.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]I CAN REFUTE ALL OF YOUR ARGUMENTS BUT I'M NOT GOING TO.[/QUOTE] It's more like: I'll be writing walls of text that you'll never bother to read, because at the end of the day: you'll simply endorse whatever you believe in and block out everything else. Been there, done that. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]That's the sorriest attempt at anything I've had posted against me. I get the news of Muslim majority countries of the violence and the treatment of unbelievers that our media is too cowardly to report on. [/QUOTE] You still didn't say where you get your news from. If not from the media then from where? [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]My friend said it best, CNN is like the Seinfeld of news media, the most trivial bullshit made important and run for a half hour long.[/QUOTE] I don't give a flying fuck about your bitching at your news agencies, don't like it? switch the channel. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255] I worked in a grocery store that was directly on the border of the neighbourhoods. [B]I worked with some Muslims.[/B] [/QUOTE] What kinds of Muslims did you work with? what was their education? what was their religious background? where did they come from? are they Canadian citizens or something else? And finally, after you're done answering the above: Do you think they represent ALL of the Muslims in the world? or ISLAM itself in any way? [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]Have you been to a Muslim majority country? If not then how are you so confident in your secret (read: non-existent) arguments.[/QUOTE] I was born and still fucking live in one. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]Also I forgot to mention, they target us because we are all Kafir, who Muslims are permitted to steal from.[/QUOTE] Ahahahahaha! That's a new one! Ah man, my lungs. Get your facts straight. And don't go selling that bullshit while I'm around.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926338][release]big list of shit[/release] [editline]07:31PM[/editline] And when was that last time you saw that in the past 1000 years?[/QUOTE] I hope you're kidding, you could probably make a longer list of violent crimes white people have done in the last year, for starters, a friend of mine fatally stabbed a drug dealer. Making a giant list of crimes perpetrated by Muslims proves nothing and makes you look retarded.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926497]The Byzantines requested help from the Catholic nations because their lands were being conquered by invading Muslim armies. Maybe you should actually educate yourself instead of just imagining all those big crusader bullies striking down innocent helpless Muslims left and right.[/QUOTE] More like they tried to steal Jerusalem from the Muslims and Jews.

[QUOTE=Wayword;23926601]I hope you're kidding, you could probably make a longer list of violent crimes white people have done in the last year, for starters, a friend of mine fatally stabbed a drug dealer. Making a giant list of crimes perpetrated by Muslims proves nothing and makes you look retarded.[/QUOTE] Well considering white people are prominent everywhere around the world obviously their are going to be more attacks against minorities since anyone who is considered white is a cracker or honky. Basically if you are white your racist.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926568]Nothing but ad hominem again, maybe you have a nice Muslim friend, doesn't change what Islam is.[/QUOTE] It apparently does, because you're portraying it to be an evil collective hellbent on usurping European culture. Islam is not a nice religion on many levels, but that applies to most religions. The fact it's written in Arabic means that "translators" can twist the words of the Qu'ran, but we shouldn't forget it was very progressive for its time what with equal rights for women and whatnot (you laugh, but the Qu'ran is very clear about women having control over the household etc). It's not significantly worse than any other religion, it's just that Christianity these days is mainly an impotent old dishrag that hangs around hosting bake sales so Islam suddenly seems all subversive and shit. It's really not.

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23926763]It apparently does, because you're portraying it to be an evil collective hellbent on usurping European culture. Islam is not a nice religion on many levels, but that applies to most religions. The fact it's written in Arabic means that "translators" can twist the words of the Qu'ran, but we shouldn't forget it was very progressive for its time what with equal rights for women and whatnot (you laugh, but the Qu'ran is very clear about women having control over the household etc). It's not significantly worse than any other religion, it's just that Christianity these days is mainly an impotent old dishrag that hangs around hosting bake sales so Islam suddenly seems all subversive and shit. It's really not.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Christianity teaches all of the same "evil" teachings, it's just that no modern Christians have actually read the bible and therefore none of them follow it.

I'm talking like, on Halloween 30 of them came down in a pack. My neighbourhood is one of the whitest in the city. My highschool had on average half a black kid per class. We're pussies, and they come from 3rd world shitholes, they turned their side of the tracks into a something that looks like one, they target us. All you have are ignorant rationalizations and ad hominem. OP is mad cause muslim youth come to his house and prank him. Or he got insulted in school by a bunch of muslim youth. You can see it right here right here ladies and gentlemen.

Same with most every religion besides Buddhism and maybe Hindusim(I don't know much about Hinduism) [editline]04:55PM[/editline] automerge broken :argh:

[QUOTE=Afgman;23926809]I'm talking like, on Halloween 30 of them came down in a pack. My neighbourhood is one of the whitest in the city. My highschool had on average half a black kid per class. We're pussies, and they come from 3rd world shitholes, they turned their side of the tracks into a something that looks like one, they target us. All you have are ignorant rationalizations and ad hominem. OP is mad cause muslim youth come to his house and prank him. Or he got insulted in school by a bunch of muslim youth. You can see it right here right here ladies and gentlemen.[/QUOTE] He probably has some GOP Glenn Beck worshipping parents, and has never met more than a few muslims in his life.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255] [B]EDIT:[/B] Ah I see it now, you're from Egypt. Guessing you're just another Taqiyyaing Muslim. [/QUOTE] Again with the fucking misinformation. Stop twisting words to suit your distorted view. To everyone else: Taqiyya literally means 'to withhold', where Muslims are allowed to conceal their beliefs if they come under oppression or are put in harm's way because of it. It works like this: If you're being tortured/threatened to be killed to give up Islam, if you lie and say that you give it up you're not looked down upon once the situation is resolved. As per wikipedia: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya[/url] [quote]The practice of concealing one’s faith in dangerous circumstances originates in the Qur’an itself, which deems blameless those who disguise their beliefs in such cases [3]. The practice of taqiyya in difficult circumstances is considered legitimate by Muslims of various persuasions. Sunni and Shi’i commentators alike observe that Q 16:106 in particular refers to the case of ‘Ammar b. Yasir, who was forced to renounce his beliefs under physical duress and torture. [4][/quote] And back to you: Now what the fuck did you mean by Taqiyyaing? [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926255]Interesting how many foreign Muslims there are on an English video game board arguing religion and politics, and Starpluck posts about Zionist plots...[/QUOTE] Except that Zionism is not a religion to start with.

I have two muslim friends and both act exactly like my atheist and Christian friends. Religion really doesn't make a difference.

[quote]They may never get you to truly believe in your heart, but that doesn't mean they'll leave you alone. Lol...[/quote] What's LOL about that?

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy18;23926813]Same with most every religion besides Buddhism and maybe Hindusim(I don't know much about Hinduism) [editline]04:55PM[/editline] automerge broken :argh:[/QUOTE] The Hindus killed lots of Muslims during the India/Pakistan partition (and vice versa). There's still a fair bit of sectarian violence. Buddhists are awesome though. When they get mad, they don't attack other people; they just set themselves on fire.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;23926858]Except that Zionism is not a religion to start with.[/QUOTE] He said religion and [B]politics[/B].

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23926893]Buddhists are awesome though. When they get mad, they don't attack other people; they just set themselves on fire.[/QUOTE] Or boil water with their fingers

[QUOTE=voodooattack;23926586]It's more like: I'll be writing walls of text that you'll never bother to read, because at the end of the day: you'll simply endorse whatever you believe in and block out everything else. Been there, done that.[/quote] Actually I have always thoroughly replied to long walls of texts because it's much easier to rip a persons arguments to pieces when they actually lay it all out. Go ahead, write your long wall, and I promise I will replied to all of it. [QUOTE=voodooattack;23926586]You still didn't say where you get your news from. If not from the media then from where?[/quote] You get all of your news from mass media? [QUOTE=voodooattack;23926586]What kinds of Muslims did you work with? what was their education? what was their religious background? where did they come from? are they Canadian citizens or something else?[/quote] One of them was born in Canada, he was in his late twenties or early thirties, and he was a pretty cool guy. We were friends. I did my orientation with him and the reason he left was that he got promoted to manager at his other job. The other one came to me as an Indian Hindu. He was an old man and said he was Indian and talked and Hindu culture and lots of stuff like that. Later after I kind of befriended him he started telling me all sorts of things about Islam and no compulsion in religion and all that bullshit. He turned out to be from Pakistan, but I guess since he was born before the partition and moved to France when he was a teenager he considered himself Indian. He got me to torrent and burn him a copy of the Hindi movie Taj Mahal: An Eternal Love Story because he apparently couldn't find it at the library. He talked to me about cutting off the hands of the slaves that built it like it was the greatest shit ever. Eventually he started trying to convince me to convert (he was Ismaili). I left the job a few weeks later for different reasons (fighting with one of the bosses). [QUOTE=voodooattack;23926586]And finally, after you're done answering the above: Do you think they represent ALL of the Muslims in the world? or ISLAM itself in any way?[/quote] No they were two distinct people, that doesn't change what Islam itself is as an ideology. [QUOTE=voodooattack;23926586]Ahahahahaha! That's a new one! Ah man, my lungs. Get your facts straight. And don't go selling that bullshit while I'm around.[/QUOTE] It starts with a T, and ends with aqiyya. [editline]08:03PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23926763]It apparently does, because you're portraying it to be an evil collective hellbent on usurping European culture. Islam is not a nice religion on many levels, but that applies to most religions. The fact it's written in Arabic means that "translators" can twist the words of the Qu'ran, but we shouldn't forget it was very progressive for its time what with equal rights for women and whatnot (you laugh, but the Qu'ran is very clear about women having control over the household etc). It's not significantly worse than any other religion, it's just that Christianity these days is mainly an impotent old dishrag that hangs around hosting bake sales so Islam suddenly seems all subversive and shit. It's really not.[/QUOTE] Ignorance at it's finest. [editline]08:04PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Afgman;23926809]I'm talking like, on Halloween 30 of them came down in a pack. My neighbourhood is one of the whitest in the city. My highschool had on average half a black kid per class. We're pussies, and they come from 3rd world shitholes, they turned their side of the tracks into a something that looks like one, they target us. All you have are ignorant rationalizations and ad hominem. OP is mad cause muslim youth come to his house and prank him. Or he got insulted in school by a bunch of muslim youth. You can see it right here right here ladies and gentlemen.[/QUOTE] Actually I haven't had anything happen to me, a kid I know got his head smashed in with a bat though. [editline]08:05PM[/editline] [quote=wayword;23926855]he probably has some gop glenn beck worshipping parents, and has never met more than a few muslims in his life.[/quote] c a n a d a

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]Ignorance at it's finest.[/QUOTE] OK then, supposing you're right about Islam being a dangerous ideology that hijacks cultures and revises history - what then? If you managed to convince a sufficiently large number of people that Islam was dangerous, what would you do next?

You can still have right-wing parents even if you live in Canada.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;23926858]Again with the fucking misinformation. Stop twisting words to suit your distorted view. To everyone else: Taqiyya literally means 'to withhold', where Muslims are allowed to conceal their beliefs if they come under oppression or are put in harm's way because of it. It works like this: If you're being tortured/threatened to be killed to give up Islam, if you lie and say that you give it up you're not looked down upon once the situation is resolved. As per wikipedia: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya[/url][/QUOTE] And here you are 'withholding' the practice and principles of Taqiyya. This is the verse you speak of: Qur'an (40:28) Here are the rest: Qur'an (16:106) - Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Qur'an (2:225) - Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing. Qur'an (3:54) - And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. Qur'an (8:30) - Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah. Qur'an (9:3) - And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. And from the Hadith: Bukhari (49:857) - That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good "things, is not a liar. Bukhari (84:64) - Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." [editline]08:17PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Splurgy_A;23927013]OK then, supposing you're right about Islam being a dangerous ideology that hijacks cultures and revises history - what then? If you managed to convince a sufficiently large number of people that Islam was dangerous, what would you do next?[/QUOTE] Not even close to that stage, but I would hope our retarded governments would stand up to them by changing our immigration laws and cutting off trade. Without us to cannibalize they are nothing. [editline]08:18PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wayword;23927082]You can still have right-wing parents even if you live in Canada.[/QUOTE] Shot in the dark. My father I would consider right-wing only because he is a born again Christian. We aren't on the best of terms. My mother is pretty a-political, I live with her and I think she voted Liberal.

If no muslim touched you or insulted you. Why complain? Bukhari (49:857) - That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good "things, is not a liar. so your saying making peace is not good? Bukhari (84:64) - Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." He ordered it against the people of his time who were inventing ways to destroy his community of believers. One of those ways were to convert to Islam (on false basis) and then corrupt the community from the inside, then hold a mass conversion out of Islam. This was put in place for those people, and to encourage people to learn and know about Islam before they consider taking it on as their way of life. Of course it wasn't directed to people after those, so today killing someone for leaving Islam *should* be an absolute no-no. There are many verses in the Quran that support this idea. A couple for evidence: 2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error. 16:82 BUT IF they turn away [from thee, O Prophet, remember that] thy only duty is a clear delivery of the message [entrusted to thee] following Abrogation laws of the Islam. Meaning that The verse 16:82 is in effect today. Such of our revelation as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not. Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]c a n a d a[/QUOTE] fox news has worshippers in canada too.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23926894]He said religion and [B]politics[/B].[/QUOTE] He said [B]Zionism[/B]. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]Actually I have always thoroughly replied to long walls of texts because it's much easier to rip a persons arguments to pieces when they actually lay it all out. Go ahead, write your long wall, and I promise I will replied to all of it.[/QUOTE] Very well, let's see. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]You get all of your news from mass media?[/QUOTE] Answering a question with a question isn't going to get us anywhere. But just to do my part: I speak both Arabic and English fluently, and I can tell when something doesn't add up on either side of the reports. I can also go out and walk the streets, and witness for myself. One additional fact: I'm fully saturated with western lifestyle, I can relate to your culture while you can't relate to mine. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]One of them was born in Canada, he was in his late twenties or early thirties, and he was a pretty cool guy. We were friends. I did my orientation with him and the reason he left was that he got promoted to manager at his other job. The other one came to me as an Indian Hindu. He was an old man and said he was Indian and talked and Hindu culture and lots of stuff like that. Later after I kind of befriended him he started telling me all sorts of things about Islam and no compulsion in religion and all that bullshit. He turned out to be from Pakistan, but I guess since he was born before the partition and moved to France when he was a teenager he considered himself Indian. He got me to torrent and burn him a copy of the Hindi movie Taj Mahal: An Eternal Love Story because he apparently couldn't find it at the library. He talked to me about cutting off the hands of the slaves that built it like it was the greatest shit ever. Eventually he started trying to convince me to convert (he was Ismaili). I left the job a few weeks later for different reasons (fighting with one of the bosses).[/QUOTE] A wonderful little story there, but where does the stealing/vandalism/murder come in? Wait, why would they befriend you in the first place? You're a Kafir right? [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]No they were two distinct people, that doesn't change what Islam itself is as an ideology.[/QUOTE] Islam is a religion, a religion can be interpreted in various ways, and unless liberal and extremist Muslims start sharing the same ideologies, you're completely wrong on this one. [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23926948]It starts with a T, and ends with aqiyya.[/QUOTE] Starts with an I, ends with an E. Islamophobe

[QUOTE=Afgman;23927238]If no muslim touched you or insulted you. Why complain?[/QUOTE] That oil spill hasn't dirtied my water so I won't complain. I won't be so fortunate forever.

[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23927175] Shot in the dark. My father I would consider right-wing only because he is a born again Christian. We aren't on the best of terms. My mother is pretty a-political, I live with her and I think she voted Liberal.[/QUOTE] Someone who isn't political votes for the biggest left-wing party in Canada and that means she isn't biased against anyone at all?

[QUOTE=voodooattack;23927315]Answering a question with a question isn't going to get us anywhere. But just to do my part: I speak both Arabic and English fluently, and I can tell when something doesn't add up on either side of the reports. I can also go out and walk the streets, and witness for myself. One additional fact: I'm fully saturated with western lifestyle, I can relate to your culture while you can't relate to mine.[/quote] Getting all your news through wholly corporate owned mass media and you think you have the truth? [QUOTE=voodooattack;23927315]A wonderful little story there, but where does the stealing/vandalism/murder come in? Wait, why would they befriend you in the first place? You're a Kafir right?[/quote] The one I befriended was Muslim in name only. I forgot to mention that the older guy fucking hated him and would complain about him all the time. The older guy 'befriended' me and tried to get me to convert. [QUOTE=voodooattack;23927315]Islam is a religion, a religion can be interpreted in various ways, and unless liberal and extremist Muslims start sharing the same ideologies, you're completely wrong on this one.[/quote] Except Islam provides it's own method as to how it is to be interpreted. [QUOTE=voodooattack;23927315]Starts with an I, ends with an E. Islamophobe[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF8TZ7k42H8[/media] You put even less text than you quoted from me, and you never even touched on the arguments you claimed you could refute to begin with. [editline]08:28PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wayword;23927342]Someone who isn't political votes for the biggest left-wing party in Canada and that means she isn't biased against anyone at all?[/QUOTE] She's ignorant of politics. That's why she voted them. Also NDP and Green are more leftist. Besides, if you have a legitimate refutation to my arguments you wouldn't need to go looking for what my parents are, you'd be able to refute them. But guess which you did.

[QUOTE=voodooattack;23927315]He said [B]Zionism[/B].[/QUOTE] Zionism is a political subject.