[QUOTE=Clovis;52689491]well i guess so, but hey if we started using gay more often people might stop using it as derogatory/insult right, or so you'd hope[/QUOTE]
gay works too well as an insult to be retired in the forseeable future
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;52687856]LGBT parades are unnecessary.[/QUOTE]
as someone who went to a parade just yesterday - hell fucking no, they are incredibly important for a lot of people. if it's marching for others or for yourself, the point is to show the world we are here, people who for the longest time have been oppressed and viewed as freaks because our sexuality or identity doesn't conform to the heterosexual standard set by society for the longest of time, and to be a place where a lot of people can let loose and be true to themselves.
I met two transgirls there, who haven't come out publically before the parade, who finally got to introduce themselves to me, a total stranger, with their female names, and it meant so much to them! they finally were in an environment where they could feel comfortable being who they really are, with people who understood and accepted them for what they were.
so do not give me that bullshit, they are in no fucking way unnecessary at all.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52689369]
This is a completely arbitrary line in the sand, and if this makes people feel uncomfortable they need to grow up and learn to move on. You may as well be playing lawyer to racist assholes who look down on black people because of rap lyrics and going "oh well I like the black people who don't listen to it, they give a good image for the black community." There's no worming your way around it, grow up.[/QUOTE]
The way I'm taking this is that you think people need to grow up because people acting like a sexual deviant in public makes them feel uncomfortable? Since I'd find it to be pretty normal for this shit to make one uncomfortable, unless I'm just misunderstanding and you meant something else.
Also how can you be so sure people acting unfair to LGBT peoples is entirely because it's them and not us, since that's what I'm getting from you. It could partly be our fault instead or both even, I've never really seen many people be open to the fact that it could have something to do with the community instead of the people who are anti.
[QUOTE=aussiedropbear;52689515]The way I'm taking this is that you think people need to grow up because people acting like a sexual deviant in public makes them feel uncomfortable?[/QUOTE]
I mean, being gay is sexual deviancy, because you know, it's not standard. So yes, being uncomfortable with gay people being gay is pretty bad.
[editline]17th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=aussiedropbear;52689515]Also how can you be so sure people acting unfair to LGBT peoples is entirely because it's them and not us, since that's what I'm getting from you. It could partly be our fault instead or both even, I've never really seen many people be open to the fact that it could have something to do with the community instead of the people who are anti.[/QUOTE]
I mean, before you continue, just try to use any other minority group for this, instead of just LGBT.
Hey, maybe it's the black people who are at fault, man... If the black community was just more white, maybe we wouldn't be so racist.
[QUOTE=gufu;52689517]I mean, being gay is sexual deviancy, because you know, it's not standard. So yes, being uncomfortable with gay people being gay is pretty bad.[/QUOTE]
You know what I meant, don't try and make it sound like I'm talking about every gay person.
aussie, we're saying that Pride has value to us, and you're just saying "lmao no it doesn't and it's icky"
I legitimately do not understand your reasoning
I understand how and why pride has a lot of value to people and I'm fine with that but you're able show it in ways other than fitting an incredibly shitty and unlikable stereotype (like some of the ones in the picture that gokiyono posted). I doubt many people would still want that stereotype present today or even be associated with.
I'm not saying that it doesn't have value to people and that every person that goes to those events are icky, unless that's seriously the only way they're able to show your pride.
[QUOTE=Clovis;52689555]pride parades are where a lot of people get the idea that LGBT are freaks.
i dunno, i really feel like anything LGBT entails should be accepted moreso than spotlights shone on them saying 'HEY WERE DIFFERENT'[/QUOTE]
what kinda parades have you seen though? are you basing this off the stereotypical "gays with bdsm gear" parade?
for all of the talk of racism of the "rural hicks", factory workers, and those who happen to be not economically well off (the demographic that helped won Donald Trump the election), it seems rather intriguing that much of the modern racial discrimination these days (such as in housing and employment) is perpetrated not by the rural folk or the working class. But instead it is largely middle-upper class college-educated white-collar managers, landowners, brokers, and other professionals who systematically discriminate against people (a black-sounding name counts about as much against you as a criminal record).
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52689620]Dude just drop the pretenses.
You hate a certain subsect of people, you want them wiped from the record because you find them icky. It doesn't matter how petty it is, aussiedropbear declares X to be the "bad people" and choses to be sympathetic to homophobia so long as its directed towards the "bad people." I hoped this was all just a misunderstanding at the start, but the more you've shown your cards the more its become apparent that LGBT rights is all about self interest to you and being fair and equitable is secondary to your own self image.
Like idk if this is homophobia but it's something at least equally as shitty and unlikable.[/QUOTE]
triggered
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Pascall))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Clovis;52689915]i said its where people get the idea, not me
what kind of parades are people gonna pay attention to? certainly not the ones where nothing is going on, you bet your ass theyre gonna remember the guy with 20 rainbow dildos strapped to his zentai suit as the embodiment of all gays![/QUOTE]
It's not our goddamn responsibility to project a public image that's bland and inoffensive, it's the responsibility of others to not be bigoted.
I never understood the appeal of cosplay guests in conventions. Is there an illegal pantyshot market that I'm unaware of?
It's not exactly an "unpopular opinion" but it's just rather uncommon. People have their interests like cars, memorabilia, photography, all that shiz. Mine? [B]Weather. Videos.[/B] You could literally put me in a room, make a playlist of tornado videos and leave me there to fester. I find them so fascinating and so cool. I guess the unpopular aspect is that I actually kinda get excited when there's periods of heavy snow or tonnes of hail / rain. Boy sign me the fuck up.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52689671]for all of the talk of racism of the "rural hicks", factory workers, and those who happen to be not economically well off (the demographic that helped won Donald Trump the election), it seems rather intriguing that much of the modern racial discrimination these days (such as in housing and employment) is perpetrated not by the rural folk or the working class. But instead it is largely middle-upper class college-educated white-collar managers, landowners, brokers, and other professionals who systematically discriminate against people (a black-sounding name counts about as much against you as a criminal record).[/QUOTE]
That's not [URL="https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/"]actually true btw[/URL]. I doubt that hiring managers, and landowners in rural places are any less discriminatory either.
Although one thing I find highly amusing about liberal cities, is that they try their damned hardest to make their cities inaccessible to the poor. They do this with awful zoning restrictions, and rent control. Los Angeles for example has half the housing capacity today than it did in the 70s. And most proposals for high-density housing are shut down with "my property values!" and outright racism and classism (oh god don't attend those meetings.)
[QUOTE=Owlz?;52690377]It's not exactly an "unpopular opinion" but it's just rather uncommon. People have their interests like cars, memorabilia, photography, all that shiz. Mine? [B]Weather. Videos.[/B] You could literally put me in a room, make a playlist of tornado videos and leave me there to fester. I find them so fascinating and so cool. I guess the unpopular aspect is that I actually kinda get excited when there's periods of heavy snow or tonnes of hail / rain. Boy sign me the fuck up.[/QUOTE]
I absolutely LOVE snow to the point where it is basically an obsession.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52689620]Dude just drop the pretenses.
You hate a certain subsect of people, you want them wiped from the record because you find them icky. It doesn't matter how petty it is, aussiedropbear declares X to be the "bad people" and choses to be sympathetic to homophobia so long as its directed towards the "bad people." I hoped this was all just a misunderstanding at the start, but the more you've shown your cards the more its become apparent that LGBT rights is all about self interest to you and being fair and equitable is secondary to your own self image.
Like idk if this is homophobia but it's something at least equally as shitty and unlikable.[/QUOTE]jfc talk about jumping the gun
aussiedropbear didn't say any of that and you're already jumping at his throat and accusing him of all this horrible shit
he said you don't have to show support through being a stereotype, not to support homophobia towards stereotypes. where did you get that idea?
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;52690280]It's not our goddamn responsibility to project a public image that's bland and inoffensive, it's the responsibility of others to not be bigoted.[/QUOTE]
This is childish and stupid. Nobody has any mandate to be good to anybody unless they've got reason to be so. Being a bigot is easy. It's convenient. It suits people. They've got more to worry about than someone else's feelings. It comforts them to know that they're in the right and someone else is in the wrong. It pulls people together; I'm sure a hate rally is just as nice a place to meet people as a pride parade, given similar interests. To them, you're the ignorant or selfish bastard who ignores the teachings of a religious book, or who disrupts and degenerates the unity and traditions of the local culture as you make gaudy public displays of deviance. Your bigotry against bigotry is futile, and a good long, hard look at "why can't everyone get along" would do you well. Any kind of parade can be literally an act of demonizing yourself if you don't think it through. Us VS them mentality is appealing, as you no doubt know.
[QUOTE=The Jack;52690953]This is childish and stupid. Nobody has any mandate to be good to anybody unless they've got reason to be so. Being a bigot is easy. It's convenient. It suits people. They've got more to worry about than someone else's feelings. It comforts them to know that they're in the right and someone else is in the wrong. It pulls people together; I'm sure a hate rally is just as nice a place to meet people as a pride parade, given similar interests. To them, you're the ignorant or selfish bastard who ignores the teachings of a religious book, or who disrupts and degenerates the unity and traditions of the local culture as you make gaudy public displays of deviance. Your bigotry against bigotry is futile, and a good long, hard look at "why can't everyone get along" would do you well. Any kind of parade can be literally an act of demonizing yourself if you don't think it through. Us VS them mentality is appealing, as you no doubt know.[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to pass up an opportunity to have fun and express myself because misguided individuals could percieve me as being bigoted.
I feel like you're just sociologically theorycrafting. I don't actually have an immediate issue with your concepts, I think they're interesting. But I'm not going to apply that to my own life, because I'm one person, not many. You have to understand that I care more for myself than I do for people who dislike who I am without having met me.
See. I think the ones that most change how people view X or Y are the ones that sneak up on you when they seemed nice and "normal".
I mean, that might be terrifying for some, but I think it's something that probably has the best impact in general. Seeing as how most people dislike or misuse statistics.
Can't really do it for race though. Like I'm sure Michael Jackson changed a few minds but on the whole blackface/white-face is pretty unacceptable.
[QUOTE=The Jack;52691072]See. I think the ones that most change how people view X or Y are the ones that sneak up on you when they seemed nice and "normal".
I mean, that might be terrifying for some, but I think it's something that probably has the best impact in general. Seeing as how most people dislike or misuse statistics.
Can't really do it for race though. Like I'm sure Michael Jackson changed a few minds but on the whole blackface/white-face is pretty unacceptable.[/QUOTE]
I now no longer understand what you're talking about.
There will never be a proper "youtube competitor". Youtube is only being run as a website by Google as a service to people at this point because its constantly being operated at a loss.
Maybe this is a bit too pessimistic but I wouldn't be surprised if the site just shuts down eventually due to all the bullshit that's been happening recently, and nothing will replace it because no other company wants to invest so much in what is essentially a pit you throw your money into and never get it back.
EDIT:
Kinda take this back, see discussion below.
[QUOTE=MacD11;52691367]There will never be a proper "youtube competitor". Youtube is only being run as a website by Google as a service to people at this point because its constantly being operated at a loss.
Maybe this is a bit too pessimistic but I wouldn't be surprised if the site just shuts down eventually due to all the bullshit that's been happening recently, and nothing will replace it because no other company wants to invest so much in what is essentially a pit you throw your money into and never get it back.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure Google isn't that peeved about the losses YouTube gains, the amount is way overblown by some people.
The big thing I disagree with is the idea that a YouTube competitor will be better. They can avoid some mistakes, but stuff like the adpocalypse and the shoot-first, ask later approach to copyright are done for very specific reasons.
I seriously doubt YouTube is going to shut down anyways.
YouTube keeps growing, which is the big thing. People will more than happily fund losses if a service overall keeps expanding. As well, YouTube represents a massive cultural significance. Alphabet isn't going to let that go.
[QUOTE=Novangel;52691503]Pretty sure Google isn't that peeved about the losses YouTube gains, the amount is way overblown by some people.[/QUOTE]
I suppose, but there's been so much drama going around lately not just about content in individual's videos but also advertisers that I get the feeling that eventually its all just gonna break down.
I can totally see Google shutting it down and using stuff like the Pewdiepie controversies and other similar youtubers as an excuse as to why it needed to go down, even though they would be silencing MANY other people as a result who don't cause such problems.
[editline]18th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52691534] I seriously doubt YouTube is going to shut down anyways.
YouTube keeps growing, which is the big thing. People will more than happily fund losses if a service overall keeps expanding. As well, YouTube represents a massive cultural significance. Alphabet isn't going to let that go.[/QUOTE]
Youtube keeps growing, but do you think Google truly likes that fact? Especially with all the shit that's going around?
[QUOTE=MacD11;52691537]I suppose, but there's been so much drama going around lately not just about content in individual's videos but also advertisers that I get the feeling that eventually its all just gonna break down.
I can totally see Google shutting it down and using stuff like the Pewdiepie controversies and other similar youtubers as an excuse as to why it needed to go down, even though they would be silencing MANY other people as a result who don't cause such problems.
[editline]18th September 2017[/editline]
Youtube keeps growing, but do you think Google truly likes that fact? Especially with all the shit that's going around?[/QUOTE] A few youtubers being controversial doesn't really matter aside from to some internet nerds. Most people at advertising firms probably hardly know what a "pewdiepie" is.
I don't think we really know enough about how much the ad boycott has hurt, and how much YouTube is managing to reel them back in. That much information probably isn't public. Hell, it's not even really known how much it costs them a year.
You're probably overestimating how much of a burden it really is on them, vs. what they gain from having it.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52691564]A few youtubers being controversial doesn't really matter aside from to some internet nerds. Most people at advertising firms probably hardly know what a "pewdiepie" is.
I don't think we really know enough about how much the ad boycott has hurt, and how much YouTube is managing to reel them back in. That much information probably isn't public. Hell, it's not even really known how much it costs them a year.
You're probably overestimating how much of a burden it really is on them, vs. what they gain from having it.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps the people that care about such things are "internet nerds", but when your most subscribed channel is shouting out racial slurs and other similarly offensive drivel there's going to be a "brand image" issue there. Which to me, any other company that were to host this website would consider that a pretty big deal.
[QUOTE=MacD11;52691571]Perhaps the people that care about such things are "internet nerds", but when your most subscribed channel is shouting out racial slurs and other similarly offensive drivel there's going to be a "brand image" issue there. Which to me, any other company that were to host this website would consider that a pretty big deal.[/QUOTE]
He mostly avoids that stuff nowadays, and apologizes for it. I think most people, aside from a select handful of crazies, don't actually think he's a racist. Even the much hated WSJ article on him says that his edgy humor was done in jest.
And for the company itself, YouTube has slashed his revenue personally by taking him off of some priority service. It's also fairly doubtful that he actually is the most popular youtuber anyways.
The real image issue that hurt them was when advertisements were shown to play on actual fascist shit, which they're addressing.
[QUOTE=MacD11;52691571]Perhaps the people that care about such things are "internet nerds", but when your most subscribed channel is shouting out racial slurs and other similarly offensive drivel there's going to be a "brand image" issue there. Which to me, any other company that were to host this website would consider that a pretty big deal.[/QUOTE]
youtube has created a complete brand dissonance between itself and the creators
to the point of allowing or, rather, not even bothering with all sorts of really messed up stuff that's sprinkled across the ocean of neverending videos. because when people think of pdp they don't think of "youtube" as a whole, much less google. the immediate connection isn't to the brand, but rather to the content creator himself.
taking this into account lessens the value of your "youtube will eventually just shut down" hypothetical my dude, because while they most certainly operate at a net loss maintaining it, they gain immeasurable amounts of brand recognition and basically hold an almost total monopoly on streaming videos on the internet. they can literally do anything they'd like and would probably get away with it.
they are indeed providing a service, to half of the entire world's population. nobody would be stupid enough to give up that sort of reach over a few insignificant outrages not even directed at YT itself, but at content creators.
[QUOTE=Melnek;52691613]youtube has created a complete brand dissonance between itself and the creators
to the point of allowing or, rather, not even bothering with all sorts of really messed up stuff that's sprinkled across the ocean of neverending videos. because when people think of pdp they don't think of "youtube" as a whole, much less google. the immediate connection isn't to the brand, but rather to the content creator himself.
taking this into account lessens the value of your "youtube will eventually just shut down" hypothetical my dude, because while they most certainly operate at a net loss maintaining it, they gain immeasurable amounts of brand recognition and basically hold an almost total monopoly on streaming videos on the internet. they can literally do anything they'd like and would probably get away with it.
they are indeed providing a service, to half of the entire world's population. nobody would be stupid enough to give up that sort of reach over a few insignificant outrages not even directed at YT itself, but at content creators.[/QUOTE]
You have a good point here, perhaps I was just being a bit brash and cynical. I'm not in a particularly good mood right now then again, so maybe I should calm down rethink things...
Songs For The Deaf is a flawless album.
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