[QUOTE=BrQ;27524223]a truth is pretty much something that is a fact. you can barely argue about facts. I can show you two apples and you can't tell me that there are 3 apples in my hands.[/QUOTE]
Unless you're talking to a sceptic :ohdear:
[QUOTE=Robbobin;27524213]Something that is true actually [i]is[/i]. It doesn't get any more simple than that. Statements that assert a verifiable state of the world have a truth-value (i.e. either true of false). You're not really making any truth-apt statements as far as I can tell, so you're not imparting any great knowledge to us because you're not saying anything that is true.[/QUOTE]
Well shit, we just arent understanding eachother.
is that understandable? We both understand, that we dont understand each other. Because I believe what I believe. And you believe what you believe.
Have a best friend? You know you do when you always get along, share similar experiences and thoughts.
Thats connection. And we lack that is what im saying. And since this is true. I won't be bothered by your truth. I learn from it.
Me connecting to you all isn't working. I learned that just now. So ill be on my way.
Pretty sure you're either a troll or a twelve-year-old trying to come off as a "deep" intellectual
[editline]19th January 2011[/editline]
I'm totally CONNECTING with you right now by seeing how stupid you are
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27524281]Well shit, we just arent understanding eachother.
is that understandable? Because I believe what I believe. And you believe what you believe.
Have a best friend? You know you do when you always get along, share similar experiences and thoughts.
Thats connection. And we lack that is what im saying. And since this is true. I won't be bothered by your truth. I learn from it.[/QUOTE]
There is [i]definitely[/i] a lack of understanding, but it's entirely down to you. You are conceptually challenged if you don't understand what truth is (which you don't).
[QUOTE=Xolo;27524342]Pretty sure you're either a troll or a twelve-year-old trying to come off as a "deep" intellectual
[editline]19th January 2011[/editline]
I'm totally CONNECTING with you right now by seeing how stupid you are[/QUOTE]
not fully, because we aren't agreeing
This thread is built on all sorts of stupidity and angst.
btw philosophy is NOTHING like this, neither is psychology
You've never taken either courses (else you would know simple things like how do de-ambiguate truth)
[QUOTE=Robbobin;27524350]There is [i]definitely[/i] a lack of understanding, but it's entirely down to you. You are conceptually challenged if you don't understand what truth is (which you don't).[/QUOTE]
there is a lack of understanding. I dont know YOU like I know myself. SO im trying my best, and it's not working, and that I see it now. Alright then. Ill work to your pleasing. Thats what best friends do, thats what I do to myself.
You seem to think that understanding the truth makes us accept the truth. You underestimate human nature. A normal human being can make himself believe something on the grounds that he wants to believe it, even to contrary evidence. If we were all "connected" then the human race would collectively believe what it wants to believe.
At some point in your example, the truth would become so painfully obvious to us all that most of us would be forced to accept the truth. However, there is still much that humanity does not know. In these areas, we would all be lead down a narrow path of what the whole of humanity believes, because their convictions would collectively overpower the individual mind.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27524398]there is a lack of understanding. I dont know YOU like I know myself. SO im trying my best, and it's not working, and that I see it now. Alright then. Ill work to your pleasing. Thats what best friends do, thats what I do to myself.[/QUOTE]
It's not a question of 'knowing me', it's a question of understanding the very basic philosophical concept of truth. If everyone else was as utterly incompetent as you, philosophy would be absolutely insufferable.
[QUOTE=Xolo;27524395]btw philosophy is NOTHING like this, neither is psychology
You've never taken either courses[/QUOTE]
I have, you don't know me. Its what im saying. so, why does that bother you? think about it.
im not bothered
[editline]19th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jager_57;27524425]You seem to think that understanding the truth makes us accept the truth. You underestimate human nature. A normal human being can make himself believe something on the grounds that he wants to believe it, even to contrary evidence. If we were all "connected" then the human race would collectively believe what it wants to believe.
At some point in your example, the truth would become so painfully obvious to us all that most of us would be forced to accept the truth. However, there is still much that humanity does not know. In these areas, we would all be lead down a narrow path of what the whole of humanity believes, because their convictions would collectively overpower the individual mind.[/QUOTE]
thats exactly what i've been saying. You guys just arent understanding my thinkings. I thought I could help you all understand my thinkings but its just obviously clear to me now that it's litterally impossible to move people, only can show, its your descision to accept it based on your needs. Again, choice. Its self explanatory why we make choices now
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27524281]Well shit, we just arent understanding eachother.
is that understandable? We both understand, that we dont understand each other. Because I believe what I believe. And you believe what you believe.
Have a best friend? You know you do when you always get along, share similar experiences and thoughts.
Thats connection. And we lack that is what im saying. And since this is true. I won't be bothered by your truth. I learn from it.
Me connecting to you all isn't working. I learned that just now. So ill be on my way.[/QUOTE]
You can't [I][B]HANDLE[/B][/I] the truth! I don't think [I]understanding[/I] is the right word. Just because you don't agree with somebody doesn't mean that you don't understand what they're saying. This is what lead me to think English was not your first language...the ways you use words like "connection" and "understanding" seem ill-fitting, like you've given them your own deifinitions to fit your new worldview.
You can't just dismiss his definition of truth because you've come up with your own, then be on your way. It doesn't work like that. Truth is based on verifiable evidence, in repeatable situations. [I]Facts. Logic.[/I] You're saying that truth is relative, which I don't think it is. People can dress things up as facts but that doesn't change...heh...the facts.
[QUOTE=BrQ;27524223]a truth is pretty much something that is a fact. you can barely argue about facts. I can show you two apples and you can't tell me that there are 3 apples in my hands.[/QUOTE]
If the Party says there are 3 apples then there are 3 apples, and there always were 3 apples.
[QUOTE=Beau_Chaotica;27524494]You can't [I][B]HANDLE[/B][/I] the truth! I don't think [I]understanding[/I] is the right word. Just because you don't agree with somebody doesn't mean that you don't understand what they're saying. This is what lead me to think English was not your first language...the ways you use words like "connection" and "understanding" seem ill-fitting, like you've given them your own deifinitions to fit your new worldview.
You can't just dismiss his definition of truth because you've come up with your own, then be on your way. It doesn't work like that. Truth is based on verifiable evidence, in repeatable situations. [I]Facts. Logic.[/I] You're saying that truth is relative, which I don't think it is. People can dress things up as facts but that doesn't change...heh...the facts.
If the Party says there are 3 apples then there are 3 apples, and there always were 3 apples.[/QUOTE]
language is just another means of connection. Language is a man made concept, way, idea, whatever. Language doesnt connect everyone, there are other ways to connect.
[editline]19th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Beau_Chaotica;27524494]You can't [I][B]HANDLE[/B][/I] the truth! I don't think [I]understanding[/I] is the right word. Just because you don't agree with somebody doesn't mean that you don't understand what they're saying. This is what lead me to think English was not your first language...the ways you use words like "connection" and "understanding" seem ill-fitting, like you've given them your own deifinitions to fit your new worldview.
You can't just dismiss his definition of truth because you've come up with your own, then be on your way. It doesn't work like that. Truth is based on verifiable evidence, in repeatable situations. [I]Facts. Logic.[/I] You're saying that truth is relative, which I don't think it is. People can dress things up as facts but that doesn't change...heh...the facts.
If the Party says there are 3 apples then there are 3 apples, and there always were 3 apples.[/QUOTE]
and your continuing to prove my point and yours. why the heated discussion? We are limited by language, because its flawed.
I'll be the first to admit language isn't without its flaws in describing abstract concepts. But it is vastly more difficult trying to communicate with you than literally everyone else I've ever had a philosophical discussion with. It's not language's fault, it's yours.
We're limited by your stupidity, not language
I think that we agree on most of the basics, but we disagree on the ends. If we were all connected, it would not be totally to the benefit of the whole. There would be a tremendous advantage in everyone being forced to both see and accept the truth, but the disadvantages would also be extreme. Imagine being the next genius of the world. It would be extremely discouraging when the entire world is literally against your ideas.
Human greed is the greatest flaw. We could know everyone as well as we know ourselves, but there would still be people trying to benefit themselves at the expenses of others. All the knowledge in the world would not stop a man from using this knowledge to put himself on top.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27524529]language is just another means of connection. Language is a man made concept, way, idea, whatever. Language doesnt connect everyone, there are other ways to connect.
[editline]19th January 2011[/editline]
and your continuing to prove my point and yours. why the heated discussion? We are limited by language, because its flawed.[/QUOTE]
What are you saying? That we can make up definitions because language is flawed? Undeniably if I say the word "love" then mostly everyone reading this thread (and there's a lot of you, I see..) will interpret it in a different way, but that doesn't mean it's completely relative. Nobody certifiably sane should interpret love as hate.
What we're talking about here is the definition of the (flawed or not) [I]word[/I] Truth...truth doesn't mean what somebody else tells you, this contradicts your arguments anyway. Communication, language are flawed in your mind so how can we rationally believe anything presented to us by [I]anybody?[/I] We have to make some assumptions that we can understand what people are trying to convey, otherwise we're lost.
Truth is verifiable and the basis for all other communication. If people give you false impressions then you have to test them yourself to decipher what is true and what is not...
If most of you can see what you are saying, you can make the connection between my thoughts and your thoughts, to some degree.
This is what I believe, you aren't answering my call. In order to connect, you have to get past your own faults. We all have faults. We reason with faults by agreeing, see that we aren't agreeing, its now ignorance. And i'll finally leave it at that. I cant connect through the english language, because theres just too many problems with it. I didn't create english, we can never fully understand it without communication. This doesn't mean we don't connect, its about connecting to everyone's liking. And i'm doing it wrong, out of my own ignorance. but understand that we all dont understand. This is how we avoid troubles
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27524882]If most of you can see what you are saying, you can make the connection between my thoughts and your thoughts, to some degree.
This is what I believe, you aren't answering my call. In order to connect, you have to get past your own faults. We all have faults. We reason with faults by agreeing, see that we aren't agreeing, its now ignorance. And i'll finally leave it at that. I cant connect through the english language, because theres just too many problems with it. I didn't create english, we can never fully understand it without communication. This doesn't mean we don't connect, its about connecting to everyone's liking. And i'm doing it wrong, out of my own ignorance. but understand that we all dont understand. This is how we avoid troubles[/QUOTE]
That's not how humans are wired: for example, I'm picking up on one of your faults.... You're a pretentious twat.
[QUOTE=Xolo;27524899]That's not how humans are wired: for example, I'm picking up on one of your faults.... You're a pretentious twat.[/QUOTE]
Thats how you view me, and thats ok. But I don't view myself like that. And I don't know if im right or your right, I just know, that I dont give a shit about your opinion. Because I accept the way you think. That benefits me.
Because, you don't bother me, you teach me, your views. And i'll choose how to react
Thats how I've used my knowledge, to better myself, so take it or leave it
You use, too many commas, for being, a, native English speaker, it makes, me think, you are in elementary school.
[QUOTE=Xolo;27525069]You use, too many commas, for being, a, native English speaker, it makes, me think, you are in elementary school.[/QUOTE]
I can safely assume that this is your own personal problem. So i'll end this discussion because we aint workin out.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27525106]I can safely assume that this is your own personal problem. So i'll end this discussion because we aint workin out.[/QUOTE]
You do write in a way that seems to suggest that English isn't your first language, despite what you say.
It seems to suggest he's not been in school long enough to have learned proper grammar, not that he's a non-native speaker.
[QUOTE=Xolo;27525272]It seems to suggest he's not been in school long enough to have learned proper grammar, not that he's a non-native speaker.[/QUOTE]
I would have to agree. Your frequent and quite frankly strange use of commas where they aren't necessary makes me think you don't actually know when to use them. It's not even really a matter of me being a grammar nazi, because generally people that are lazy when they type don't add extra shit in, as that would defeat the entire point of being lazy when you type.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27521898]
See that we've never met before, you and I don't know eachother. We don't know what eachother is thinking. Because we don't share common interests. Clearly you're not interested in what i'm saying. There's other methods of communicating/ sharing common interests, such as playing music, or whatever you like..[/QUOTE]
Okay, thank you for pointing out something that I learned when I was fucking 2 years old. Why are you telling me stuff I already know?
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/captain_obvious.jpg[/IMG]
[B]I THINK WE HAVE FOUND THIS GUY![/B]
Saying this to you in person, and typing it, is giving the same message. You're too caught up with words expressed visually, not audibly. That's your own fault whether you like it or not. The fact is that you're not listening to the message im getting across. I forgot, this forum is composed of people who I used to familiarize myself with, ignorance. And since i've changed MY ignorant ways, I cant connect to ignorant people.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27525106]I can safely assume that this is your own personal problem. So i'll end this discussion because we aint workin out.[/QUOTE]
It's also my personal problem and the personal problem of everyone except you. It would be fairer to say it's your problem.
[QUOTE=Shrooms;27525710]Saying this to you in person, and typing it, is giving the same message. You're too caught up with words expressed visually, not audibly. That's your own fault whether you like it or not. The fact is that you're not listening to the message im getting across. I forgot, this forum is composed of people who I used to familiarize myself with, ignorance. And since i've changed MY ignorant ways, I cant connect to ignorant people.[/QUOTE]
It's not so much ignorance as it is recognizing that what you're saying has no real point. Your message seems to be repetitive, vague, poorly put together, and lacking in substance. I don't know if it's the fault of your speaking and typing skills, or what, but it's getting a bit sad now.
In regards to your post, I don't believe anyone here is caught up in words expressed visually, because it's not that hard to respond to people over the internet in text (with the occasional exception of sarcasm or some emotions), and this sort of conversation isn't one of those.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;27525821]It's also my personal problem and the personal problem of everyone except you. It would be fairer to say it's your problem.[/QUOTE]
it is my problem, a lack of perfect communication, We can't help it. Is what im saying, its what i've been saying. its how we deal with life. It's how we control our emotions. By understanding that we dont understand. Im proving both yours and my point. We both see the same thing!
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