• HEMA/Historical Warfare v. 1 "Strike in and hasten forth; rush to, let it hit, or go by."
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That sounds pretty good actually. At the Kungsträdgården medieval weekend a guy broke his finger. Partly the fault of his plate gloves, which he constructed himself. They had an unfortunate gap that exposed parts of the pinky finger. [editline]21st April 2015[/editline] Quite a bad break, I might add. Cast up the entire arm for a month.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47568704]That sounds pretty good actually. At the Kungsträdgården medieval weekend a guy broke his finger. Partly the fault of his plate gloves, which he constructed himself. They had an unfortunate gap that exposed parts of the pinky finger. [editline]21st April 2015[/editline] Quite a bad break, I might add. Cast up the entire arm for a month.[/QUOTE] It was. Other than that, two guys ripped and eyebrow and the usual icebags for swollen forearms was the only thing that really happened. I can understand he tried to construct the gear himself, since HEMA equipment can be expensive. Still. Can't put a price on safety.
Well, I will say it was just an oversight on his part, considering he has made almost an entire plate armour by himself, which was super mobile and protective, all apart from the glove. Even the most expensive gloves you can get still has some reports of broken fingers, and a guy in my group just recently got his thumbnail ripped from a strike while wearing the SPES heavy gloves, and those are probably the biggest gloves I know of.
i wonder, were they some of sort of fingered gauntlets because plate gauntlets not being entirely protective are also historical too lol with numerous mentions of them failing to prevent broken fingers in the sca, it's either late 15th to 16th century clam shell-esque gauntlets or basket hilts. not very historical if you're doing a persona/kit anywhere before that but it's safety first.
They were big gauntlets, with a singular piece for the fingers. The problem wasnt the piece at all, in fact he had put enough padding to barely feel strikes through the plate, the problem was that with a clenched fist, a gap presented itself between two plates. The guy he was fencing against has a notorious reputation for always hitting the square centimeter that's unprotected. I have fingered Visby gauntlets, where the pros are that they've protected me excellently when using them, but the leather quality is poor enough so they just start to break apart. Hilarious when we were exhibiting in Stockholm, during my final fight with them before i decided they should retire for now, a piece of plate was dislocated almost every strike i took. No finger injuries though, so I'm satisfied enough. I just have long repair work to do. [editline]21st April 2015[/editline] I really like the Red Dragon gloves, it just doesn't get better for that kind of price. Really recommend them to anyone who just don't feel like having heavy gloves.
I'm using some Lacrosse gloves with insane padding on the fingers. Works very well. If not better than "official" HEMA gauntlets.
[img]https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11149291_10206420165412045_3576435920613478741_n.jpg?oh=cf3012c201b2d77ccb14c48416311cee&oe=55D18B9B[/img] Here's an image from this years market, there's more to come. Also videos. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Taken by yours truly!
Feder blades look really boring, tbh. Blades from Regenyei or swords made to look like actual longswords are way cooler. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Szymon makes the only cool Feder swords I've seen. [IMG]http://szymonchlebowski.pl/img/p/1/1/11-thickbox_default.jpg[/IMG]
Well...those are Regenyei feders. And I agree, I prefer sparring with my Pavel Moc blunt, and I did at every occassion I could at Kungsträdgården. Feders are nice for safety reasons, but I dislike using a blade that has the mass distribution of a rapier.
Now, as you mentioned before, Shield/Weapon combat is kinda a no-go due to the lack of information about them. However, would something like [url=https://youtu.be/4ZIsc6KPkKA]This[/url] fall under a HEMA-esque competition/style or is it something completely different? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions
You can't ask too many questions, that's literally impossible. As for the video, if the question is if it's HEMA in the sense of the organisations and "established ways of fighting" that exists, then no, since they're clearly doing their own thing. If it's HEMA as far as "martial arts based on historical european treatises" then maybe, but that depends if they're fighting based after a historical manual or not. My guess with this one is no, since it seems they're doign similar to what battle of the nations are doing. And to be completely honest, I have no idea what's going on in the video. Fighters seem to be capable of attacking and defending, but how is score calculated? what even is the goal? [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Did they put MMA fighters in armour and let them duke it out? [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Also, if it's anything like BoTN, their armour is probably too thick to be historically accurate, nad they probably don't even feel the blows. ...and if you know your armour is strong enugh to negate sword blows, you don't need a shield.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47575065]Well...those are Regenyei feders. And I agree, I prefer sparring with my Pavel Moc blunt, and I did at every occassion I could at Kungsträdgården. Feders are nice for safety reasons, but I dislike using a blade that has the mass distribution of a rapier.[/QUOTE] No? It's a Feder made by Jan Szymon? :v: Yeah, I understand why Feders are still around and all that. But regluar looking longswords are way more fun. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Sword & Shield is certainly not a no-go. Sure, the manuals are lacking. But that doesn't make it impossible to guess at how people them together. You can base some shield techniques around buckler techniques. Since they pretty much serve the same function. Although the buckler is easier to use offensively due to the lighter weight. It's actually funny. Before I began practicing HEMA er saw the buckler as one of the most useless things due to the small size. But it is actually very effective at what it's supposed to do once you get the timing down. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] Can't edit the post for some reason. It's supposed to say "guess at how people used them together"
I meant the feders in my image!
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47575076]Now, as you mentioned before, Shield/Weapon combat is kinda a no-go due to the lack of information about them. However, would something like [URL="https://youtu.be/4ZIsc6KPkKA"]This[/URL] fall under a HEMA-esque competition/style or is it something completely different? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions[/QUOTE] you've only asked like one question before lol, so i don't think you should be worrying about asking too many questions. also as g-strogg said, you can never ask too many questions. shield/weapon isn't entirely a no-go. we do have information about them such as sword/spear/partisan with rotella which is essentially a round domed shield made out of various materials (i remember reading about shot-proof rotellas in the 16th century) [IMG]http://marozzo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/rotella-255x300.jpg[/IMG]. while sword and rotella isn't exactly popular right now, it'd still be considered hema. hema is essentially a study and practice of any historical european martial arts provided you have sufficient historical evidence to back it up. and that usually requires treatises and/or manuals which do we have for rotellas (just not much compared to longsword/rapier/sabre/etc). none for viking shields or any of that other stuff though. as for the video, it's not hema. imo it looks exactly like battle of the nations/sca with steel weapons. there's no historical documents/information on their fighting styles and the way they fight do not represent the information we have on armoured combat. not to say it isn't an effective combat sport, it just isn't historical. if you wanted to nit pick it more, the armour they're wearing also isn't 100% historical and the stuff they changed is roughly similar to the changes in armour guys in the botn and sca do, i.e. the 16th century clamshell gauntlets they're wearing. also the "system" is reminiscent of the sca (not botn where points are rewarded to the most amount of hits or knocking the other guy down). good hits are defined to be hits that would "cut through chain mail"/strong blows determined by the guy who got hit. armoured hema fighting looks drastically different. [video=youtube;1S_Q3CGqZmg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg[/video] but i don't think there is any sort of competition that enabled competitors to perform every historical move. thrusting a point into someone's visor at full speed is a no-no even with blunt swords (which is why botn bans thrusts).
What Kimchi said, also good on you to post the half-swording, I should've thought of that.
also i just want to add that sca/botn/acl stuff aren't entirely non-historical. there are lots of info out there on the various games and tourneys they had during the medieval era/renaissance which resemble them. stick fighting, hitting off silly hats with a stick on horseback, smacking swords on armour like botn are all historical. but you're not going to learn much "real combat" from them since they're just games/sport.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47575243]I meant the feders in my image![/QUOTE] Oh. Sorry about that. Haha. Anyone here who've tried out Sword & Buckler besides me?
[QUOTE=Sunkite;47575793]Oh. Sorry about that. Haha. Anyone here who've tried out Sword & Buckler besides me?[/QUOTE] I did at the market, and I bought one just because it was so much fun. However, my buckler weighs more than my sword I think, around 2kg... At least I'll get strong arms.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47575827]I did at the market, and I bought one just because it was so much fun. However, my buckler weighs more than my sword I think, around [B]2kg[/B]... At least I'll get strong arms.[/QUOTE] Fucking. What. Did you tape a brick to it or something? Bucklers aren't meant to be that heavy. Not even the full metal ones. Anyway. What did you think about it? Imo it takes a bit getting used to, compared with longsword. I keep forgetting the buckler can be used very aggressively and to cover my sword-arm with it. :v:
I'm still awful with arming sword and buckler, but I'm doing ok with rapier and buckler. Also, it is full metal, i think it's 2.5-3 mm metal though. I'm well aware of the issues with the weight, but I think it's very good conditioning (my arm strength is supremely poor, gotta train it somehow). Anyway, just came back from practice. In today's sparring I got 3 hits in a row on one of the only guys in the club who's been to a tournament, and I also managed to slam my instructor to the ground after I thought he got way too close. We had pizza afterwards. Good day in general.
Never tried rapier & buckler myself, actually. We mainly train with Longsword, Arming Sword & Buckler and daggers. We have recently begun training with lances from horseback. Which is fun. I'm riding around on a big mean looking Irish Cob with a magnificent moustache. And congrats on slamming your instructor down to the floor. It's hard wrestling with someone while trying to avoid getting hit.
Well I kinda blame him, he enjoys going in close for takedowns, which he's good at so it usually goes his way, but I was practising bujinkan 2 years before doign this (still doing it), so I have a way with throws. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] I can say I'm very jealous of your horseback training! If I ever go down there I'll bring the entire club. Do you have some videos or pictures off it?
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47577381]Well I kinda blame him, he enjoys going in close for takedowns, which he's good at so it usually goes his way, but I was practising bujinkan 2 years before doign this (still doing it), so I have a way with throws. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] I can say I'm very jealous of your horseback training! If I ever go down there I'll bring the entire club. Do you have some videos or pictures off it?[/QUOTE] Well. A lot of people in HEMA like to get in close and wrestle like gorillas. Which is why we focus more on side stepping and getting enough distance to use your sword. Rather than grappling. We took some pictures yesterday. But I doubt they've been uploaded yet. I'll put some of them in here once they're up! Sadly I haven't begun the lance/sword training from horseback yet myself, since I'm still new at riding.
Ah, well, I should mention that he's a very good technical fencer too, it's just that if you yourself go in too close he won't hesitate a millisecond to go in for grappling. I surmise the flaw there is that if you know his moves you can draw him out from a good defense and get a nice hit.
That is also why it's good to meet other fencers and have a bout. You quickly get to know each others tricks and way of fencing. My tutor heavily relies on tricks, illusions, riposting, abusing your own moves against you and otherwise being an asshole. I can tell you I was relieved learning that not many fencers fight like him. Because he is really, really good at what he does. Edited: I can give you an example. One of the things he does (I've begun doing it as well), is standing ready with a Überhau. You then pretend to be striking for your opponents head, making them raise their sword for a riposte. In the last second, you change direction and go for the hands instead. He also constantly keeps his blade in motion, in order to make it harder to figure out where the next strike will come from.
überhau, I'm assuming Liechtenauer (or, talhoffer/dührer, since few groups source from the first treatises), am I correct? And yeah the interjecting strikes is something that happens a lot in our club, since one of (imo) the best sparrers in my club keep doing it, al ot of people take after him. Also, that's a good feint. I personally prefer the one where you completely switch direction halfway through and attack on their right as they're defending their left.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;47577969]überhau, I'm assuming Liechtenauer (or, talhoffer/dührer, since few groups source from the first treatises), am I correct? And yeah the interjecting strikes is something that happens a lot in our club, since one of (imo) the best sparrers in my club keep doing it, al ot of people take after him. Also, that's a good feint. I personally prefer the one where you completely switch direction halfway through and attack on their right as they're defending their left.[/QUOTE] Indeed it is. Most of our training is based off of Lichtenauer. It's a very effective feint. He's also great at turning the Überhau into a mean thrust. Changing directions is an efficient feint. I like doing it when using Sword & Buckler and dagger.
So, which treatises do you follow? I was very much enjoying when we did Liechtenauer, since we followed the principles taught in the earliest manuscript, which is thought to be written either by the man himself or one of his personal students (more likely the latter). No images, but thanks to the coaching of our old instructor we manage to do very well. Now we're doing Meyer, which is nice mostly because of the change of perspective, and what happens when you push the duel interpretation of Liechtenauer to the very limits. Still prefer the old Liechtenauer though.
I honestly have no idea. I just show up, get my gear on and fence :v:
Ah well, check them out sometime. You'll definitely learn something.
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