• HEMA/Historical Warfare v. 1 "Strike in and hasten forth; rush to, let it hit, or go by."
    422 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sunkite;48219973] Competing with synthetics would be the wisest choice for you, due to your lack of experience. Have you tried fencing with steel swords yet? [/QUOTE] Not yet. For the first couple of lessons I just assumed that it wasn't a good idea and avoided them, and a couple of weeks later I asked the instructor and the answer was "get more practice before trying that" which I'm inclined to agree with. [editline]16th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sunkite;48220144]Yeah I'd rather wear a full helmet than this. Those goggles would not make me feel safe at all.[/QUOTE] Doing any proper sparring without full head protection seems like a terrible idea.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVVcv2He7gE[/media] You can do fine if you know yourself and your opponent well enough. It's a good way to learn how to defend yourself. I had a problem with getting hit on my hands a lot, and i think i got cracks in the bones more than one time. Then I fenced a bit without gloves and now that rarely happens. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOO2ch5uNBc[/media] and more Warzecha cus heck yeah.
[QUOTE=Reds;48220540]Not yet. For the first couple of lessons I just assumed that it wasn't a good idea and avoided them, and a couple of weeks later I asked the instructor and the answer was "get more practice before trying that" which I'm inclined to agree with. [/QUOTE] Yes. While steel is more fun, it is important to get the basics down first before using them. Since the trip to France for Rossfechten is slowly approaching, it's time for me to start learning it myself. Looking forward to it. We even got a stallion and another mare at the farm now.
[t]http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/shields/z12dghsa.jpg[/t] Get champrons for your horses!!!
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48221565][t]http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/shields/z12dghsa.jpg[/t] Get champrons for your horses!!![/QUOTE] That would be fucking baller. This is more focused on the fencing and the person fencing though.
[QUOTE=Sunkite;48222707]That would be fucking baller. This is more focused on the fencing and the person fencing though.[/QUOTE] The poor things need protection too, hehe
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48223993]The poor things need protection too, hehe[/QUOTE] They sure do, but if you hit the horse instead of your opponent in rossfechten, you're doing it wrong. It's a different matter when it comes to jousting.
So, what weapons do you use in the rossfechten?
Arming swords, longswords and spears. Arming swords are the most common iirc. [editline]19th July 2015[/editline] I might make an account at a place like imgur and take some pictures for you guys to see.
Cool shit! Would be nice to see.
Oh yeah, forgot to post about the tournament. It was a pretty casual tournament with just the regulars showing up, nothing city-wide, although I hear some stuff is going on in either Melbourne or Brisbane soon. As expected I got knocked out in the first round of the synthetics division with one win, two losses, and one draw. The draw was against the guy who ultimately won the whole tournament, at least in the metal division, so that was nice. I didn't come last, at least, and my losses wasn't complete slaughters. It was open-weapon so the guy who won was the bastard with the tower shield who favoured the tactic of "shove them out of the ring". Well, if it works... I was using standard longsword since I've only used single-handed once and I don't have any shield training. This very much showed when I was against somebody using a buckler because I don't know how to deal with shields or press my range advantage on the longsword. I think it was 4-7 his way though so it wasn't a complete stomp. There was one guy who was using single-sword and a parrying dagger who was really good with it, he kept getting incredibly clean hits and really good blocks in. Not much to really say other than that. Now I just need to git gud.
[QUOTE=Reds;48245410]Oh yeah, forgot to post about the tournament. It was a pretty casual tournament with just the regulars showing up, nothing city-wide, although I hear some stuff is going on in either Melbourne or Brisbane soon. As expected I got knocked out in the first round of the synthetics division with one win, two losses, and one draw. The draw was against the guy who ultimately won the whole tournament, at least in the metal division, so that was nice. I didn't come last, at least, and my losses wasn't complete slaughters. It was open-weapon so the guy who won was the bastard with the tower shield who favoured the tactic of "shove them out of the ring". Well, if it works... I was using standard longsword since I've only used single-handed once and I don't have any shield training. This very much showed when I was against somebody using a buckler because I don't know how to deal with shields or press my range advantage on the longsword. I think it was 4-7 his way though so it wasn't a complete stomp. There was one guy who was using single-sword and a parrying dagger who was really good with it, he kept getting incredibly clean hits and really good blocks in. Not much to really say other than that. Now I just need to git gud.[/QUOTE] How to deal with people who have big shields (bucklers are different story). Catch their blade, use your bind to wind it towards their shield, and place a stab.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48245588]How to deal with people who have big shields (bucklers are different story). Catch their blade, use your bind to wind it towards their shield, and place a stab.[/QUOTE] Thanks. Afterward I got advice from one of the guys who said he'd deal with by what I think was basically the same method you're describing. I wish I had been able to try it out against the guy. I'll probably get another shot sometime. Mostly people dealt with him by stabbing him in the shins. I'm honestly surprised that the shield shoving technique worked so effectively, you'd have thought people would not go on the defensive against him once he started advancing after the first few times. It only happened to me once early on when I didn't attack aggressively enough. Once you got on the defensive too much against him it tended to go downhill.
[QUOTE=Reds;48245817]Thanks. Afterward I got advice from one of the guys who said he'd deal with by what I think was basically the same method you're describing. I wish I had been able to try it out against the guy. I'll probably get another shot sometime. Mostly people dealt with him by stabbing him in the shins. I'm honestly surprised that the shield shoving technique worked so effectively, you'd have thought people would not go on the defensive against him once he started advancing after the first few times. It only happened to me once early on when I didn't attack aggressively enough. Once you got on the defensive too much against him it tended to go downhill.[/QUOTE] In the lineage of Liecthenauer, even if shields were kind of not being used so much anymore, I think the point was always to either attack straight on the shield side or on the blade side, but not switching between the two. But I could be wrong on the factual aspect. I've found that the principle I described works in practice, however.
I feel like doing something martial again. When I was a kid I spent a lot of the time at a shooting range shooting rifles. When I got bored of soccer I started kickboxing. Thinking of trying this stuff out. How is the social aspect of HEMA like? The Kickboxing team I was a member of had a really friendly atmosphere, but I know some other martial arts have much more toxic communities. Is it beginner friendly?
[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;48246094]I feel like doing something martial again. When I was a kid I spent a lot of the time at a shooting range shooting rifles. When I got bored of soccer I started kickboxing. Thinking of trying this stuff out. How is the social aspect of HEMA like? The Kickboxing team I was a member of had a really friendly atmosphere, but I know some other martial arts have much more toxic communities. Is it beginner friendly?[/QUOTE] Considering it's a beginner art, It's very beginner friendly. I had a positive experience and it seems Reds had one too. There's more friction between different schools however, but you can usually ignore that. And, hey! you could join Sunkites club, living in Denmark and all!
[QUOTE=Reds;48245410]Oh yeah, forgot to post about the tournament. It was a pretty casual tournament with just the regulars showing up, nothing city-wide, although I hear some stuff is going on in either Melbourne or Brisbane soon. As expected I got knocked out in the first round of the synthetics division with one win, two losses, and one draw. The draw was against the guy who ultimately won the whole tournament, at least in the metal division, so that was nice. I didn't come last, at least, and my losses wasn't complete slaughters. It was open-weapon so the guy who won was the bastard with the tower shield who favoured the tactic of "shove them out of the ring". Well, if it works... I was using standard longsword since I've only used single-handed once and I don't have any shield training. This very much showed when I was against somebody using a buckler because I don't know how to deal with shields or press my range advantage on the longsword. I think it was 4-7 his way though so it wasn't a complete stomp. There was one guy who was using single-sword and a parrying dagger who was really good with it, he kept getting incredibly clean hits and really good blocks in. Not much to really say other than that. Now I just need to git gud.[/QUOTE] What kind of tournament was it since it allowed you to pick your own weapons?
So who would win in a duel, a skilled fencer or a skilled claymore-man. I need to know this because I actually did get challenged at the Renaissance Faire I volunteer at and we get to use a weapon of our choice. I'm pretty damn good at handling a claymore but I imagine he's faster than me.
[QUOTE=Sunkite;48256472]What kind of tournament was it since it allowed you to pick your own weapons?[/QUOTE] A very small one with just the guys from the school attending.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48257655]So who would win in a duel, a skilled fencer or a skilled claymore-man.[/QUOTE] a skilled fencer at what? rapier?
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;48257691]a skilled fencer at what? rapier?[/QUOTE] Rapier but I've seen him use a couple other swords, too. I'm not 100% sure what he's chosen yet. I know I'm using a claymore because it fits with my character (Highland Scottish mercenary captain)
tbh I've always been of the opinion that unless the weapon is designed for a very very specific purpose, the winner of the fight will ultimately go to the person with more skill and experience. it's hard for me to say since I don't know how well you guys fight but if I had to choose, the man with the claymore seems to have a bigger advantage. Good luck with the fight though.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;48257878]tbh I've always been of the opinion that unless the weapon is designed for a very very specific purpose, the winner of the fight will ultimately go to the person with more skill and experience. it's hard for me to say since I don't know how well you guys fight but if I had to choose, the man with the claymore seems to have a bigger advantage. Good luck with the fight though.[/QUOTE] Yea we scheduled it for later this week.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48258422]Yea we scheduled it for later this week.[/QUOTE] What are the rules? If it's first blood without an afterblow you're fucked.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48257655]So who would win in a duel, a skilled fencer or a skilled claymore-man. I need to know this because I actually did get challenged at the Renaissance Faire I volunteer at and we get to use a weapon of our choice. I'm pretty damn good at handling a claymore but I imagine he's faster than me.[/QUOTE] A skilled fencer would make an untrained person look like a fool no matter the weapons. You may have reach (and not even that much more than him), but he has technique and experience. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] Wait, I misread. Sorry about that. I'd say that the more experienced fencer with a better grasp on the techniques for their weapon would have the advantage. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=G-Strogg;48259095]What are the rules? If it's first blood without an afterblow you're fucked.[/QUOTE] And this. The rapier guy will be able to quickly move in and get the first strike on you since the rapier is a much faster weapon to use than a claymore The afterblow rule is in general quite silly and not very sportsly.
[QUOTE=Sunkite;48259742]A skilled fencer would make an untrained person look like a fool no matter the weapons. You may have reach (and not even that much more than him), but he has technique and experience. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] Wait, I misread. Sorry about that. I'd say that the more experienced fencer with a better grasp on the techniques for their weapon would have the advantage. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] And this. The rapier guy will be able to quickly move in and get the first strike on you since the rapier is a much faster weapon to use than a claymore The afterblow rule is in general quite silly and not very [B]sportsly[/B].[/QUOTE] I disagree but that genuinely doesn't matter since the rule itself is taken from historical duels and tournaments - it's part of the historical part of the fencing, after all.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48259962]I disagree but that genuinely doesn't matter since the rule itself is taken from historical duels and tournaments - it's part of the historical part of the fencing, after all.[/QUOTE] You are of course welcome to disagree. I just believe it's not very sportsly or fair to try and hit your opponent after they struck you in the head. Just admit your opponent did better and move on to the next bout. However if they hit your arm, I can see why an afterblow would make sense. It is allowed of course, and we do it when we practice for tournaments. I would be annoyed if we were doing a casual sparring match and you'd use afterblows though. Also sorry if I ramble alot, I'm really exhausted at the moment so I hope it makes sense.
[QUOTE=Sunkite;48260129]You are of course welcome to disagree. I just believe it's not very sportsly or fair to try and hit your opponent after they struck you in the head. [B]Just admit your opponent did better [/B]and move on to the next bout. However if they hit your arm, I can see why an afterblow would make sense. It is allowed of course, and we do it when we practice for tournaments. I would be annoyed if we were doing a casual sparring match and you'd use afterblows though. Also sorry if I ramble alot, I'm really exhausted at the moment so I hope it makes sense.[/QUOTE] Your opponent didn't do better if he struck without caring for his own defense; this was the reason the afterblow existed in german and franco-belgian rules. (sometimes the person recieving the hit would have up to three steps to make a counter-strike). Arguably, the afterblow is the second biggest difference from HEMA and sports fencing. Remove that and the only thing left will be no more human judging (electrical scoring etc). I mean, if you wish to show yourself as a good fencer, being able to strike in a controlled manner is obviously something to strive towards. However, I would agree that the current implementation of the afterblow in tournaments is backwards and undignifying; it will also lead to judges scoring incorrectly. Rather than trying to figure out who got the most points in an exchange, just let an afterblow or double hit completely negate any points in that exchange. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] Ultimately, it's easy as heck to strike someone first when you disregard your own defense, and that just makes you the faster fencer, not the better one.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48260411]Your opponent didn't do better if he struck without caring for his own defense; this was the reason the afterblow existed in german and franco-belgian rules. (sometimes the person recieving the hit would have up to three steps to make a counter-strike). Arguably, the afterblow is the second biggest difference from HEMA and sports fencing. Remove that and the only thing left will be no more human judging (electrical scoring etc). I mean, if you wish to show yourself as a good fencer, being able to strike in a controlled manner is obviously something to strive towards. However, I would agree that the current implementation of the afterblow in tournaments is backwards and undignifying; it will also lead to judges scoring incorrectly. Rather than trying to figure out who got the most points in an exchange, just let an afterblow or double hit completely negate any points in that exchange. [editline]21st July 2015[/editline] Ultimately, it's easy as heck to strike someone first when you disregard your own defense, and that just makes you the faster fencer, not the better one.[/QUOTE] You make a very good point. Guess I was too tired to think it through. Haha. Yes, that sounds more like what I was trying to get to. That it has not been implemented correctly into tournaments. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;48259095]What are the rules? If it's first blood without an afterblow you're fucked.[/QUOTE] First man to fall loses. I called him earlier today and he might be using a Long sword to better counter swings but he's not sure.
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