Religion Of Christianity - General

Well about my Big Bang theory mistake with the atom, I guess when my teacher looked back upon the subject, he was mistaken and said it was an "atom" as he was using the subject for some rant he was on. That was what probably made me say atom and I haven't learned about the Big Bang Theory since 8th Grade really. I guess I should look some stuff up before I say them, but anyways... It's more of a thing to this, I just completely lost all thoughts of believing a higher-being. But it's that, I feel as if I need to follow some sort of faith and I don't know what. A faith which is organized and has a community. Meh, to be honest, my take on Christianity religion is that it's really stupid. I mean, someone who has been waiting for centuries to make galaxies and all that, then has a son by using magical powers to summon him into a virgin's body, and then making bibles, laws, to follow and if you do not, you will have to go to hell and be tortured eternally (How can you feel if you die and have no nerves?)or be in a magical play land of happiness. My personal theory about religion is that religions were made up to follow some rules, mostly these rules would be to act good and kind. Following these rules would help humanity to try and become better. But all religion has done is caused wars, made people commit suicide, kill, and has a big part of bullying ( Mostly on the jewish faith ). Now exactly if we were all athiests, I believe the world would be superb. Why do I think this? Well because we all wouldn't follow a different SET of things and have communities, but we would have our own goals and life faith. Probably some people would believe some type of god like the greeks did of the greek gods ( which are now myths ) and would the belief would either be "insane", "false", or "true".

[QUOTE]The concept of hell isn't part of the core of Christianity. Hell was integrated on Christianity much like several other things by absorving people from different religions. It was later used as a tool to rule. You should understand that hell is against one of the main attributes of the chrisitan God that is Omnibenevolence. Hell is much more linked to how the doctrine sees what is defined by creation. But that's another thing enterily.[/QUOTE] This is just plainly false. Hell is obvious in the Bible and has been since the very beginning of Christianity. "41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”" - Matthew 25:41-46 (all words quoted directly from Jesus) Notice how the eternal punishment is put on equal ground as eternal life. They are both presented as a real thing and of equal length. [B][QUOTE]Catholics believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same person, while most (if not all) protestant churches they are separate beings.[/QUOTE] This is also patently false. One of the key similarities between protestant Christianity and Catholicism is the agreement on the existence of the trinitarian God. On the other hand, Mormons disagree with this saying that Jesus is a completely separate entity, and of a difference essence than the Father. [B]To the OP: I would suggest that you read the Bible yourself. If Christianity is true, then our salvation depends on Him completely. Read it with an open mind (as in honestly be seeking the truth, whatever that may be) and make the decision on your own. I would suggest reading a gospel first, probably John.[/B][/B]

[QUOTE]My personal theory about religion is that religions were made up to follow some rules, mostly these rules would be to act good and kind. Following these rules would help humanity to try and become better. [B]But all religion has done is caused wars, made people commit suicide, kill, and has a big part of bullying ( Mostly on the jewish faith )[/B].[/QUOTE] If you think about it, most of the modern day laws in almost every country was based off the 10 commandments of God. Also Christians believe in a 'Just War' where you can only start a war or a fight when you are trying to defend yourself and or your race / nation. I used to be Muslim before I converted and I know that Muslims have the same opinion about wars. Now you might be thinking "What about Al-Qaeda and all those terrorist groups ?", those Muslims who kill innocent people AND THEMSELVES just to impress God (or Allah) aren't really following Allah's rules and guides. He states that Murder, Suicide and even [U]upset or distress others[/U] are nothing but the workers of Satan. This is the same with Christianity, but God offers forgiveness to those who have sinned with such deeds.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43862160]This is just plainly false. Hell is obvious in the Bible and has been since the very beginning of Christianity. "41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”" - Matthew 25:41-46 (all words quoted directly from Jesus) Notice how the eternal punishment is put on equal ground as eternal life. They are both presented as a real thing and of equal length. [B] This is also patently false. One of the key similarities between protestant Christianity and Catholicism is the agreement on the existence of the trinitarian God. On the other hand, Mormons disagree with this saying that Jesus is a completely separate entity, and of a difference essence than the Father. [B]To the OP: I would suggest that you read the Bible yourself. If Christianity is true, then our salvation depends on Him completely. Read it with an open mind (as in honestly be seeking the truth, whatever that may be) and make the decision on your own. I would suggest reading a gospel first, probably John.[/B][/B][/QUOTE] Please ignore the bold on this post. FP is being impossible right now and isn't letting me edit it if Cloudflare even lets me through.

[QUOTE=Tarado;43862296]If you think about it, most of the modern day laws in almost every country was based off the 10 commandments of God.[/QUOTE] Interesting how there were actually nations and laws that existed before the Decalogue was supposedly written. I guess all those Greeks and Celts and Asian nations just raped, murdered, and stole from each other ceaselessly until they heard about the Commandments.

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43853868]Prayer is a way for us to speak directly to God, during which we may make any(literally anything, I can't stress that enough) requests that we wish and they will be listened to. Such a thing is not to be treated lightly though, reverence must be payed and the request must be made in as humble a manner as possible as you are essentially asking God to include your requests in his divine will. His will is ultimately the most important though and you must be ready to accept it whether your request is included or not. So it's not quite as simple as asking and receiving exactly what you asked for, it's rather a humble request that may be fulfilled, God willing. I am however confused as to why you think this interferes with free will.[/QUOTE] Yeah you have to be really nice, you wouldn't want to hurt the all powerful, omnipotent guy's feelings.

I can defiantly tell you the greeks (mainly the Spartans) and some Asians (mongolians) raped and murdered people from other nations for no reason.

[QUOTE=Tarado;43862373]I can defiantly tell you the greeks (mainly the Spartans) and some Asians (mongolians) raped and murdered people from other nations for no reason.[/QUOTE] And so did early Jews as well as early Christians. The fact is that the ten commandments do not exist as a legal basis. Instead they are a reflection of certain base laws which exist in most societies.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43862160]This is just plainly false. Hell is obvious in the Bible and has been since the very beginning of Christianity. "41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”" - Matthew 25:41-46 (all words quoted directly from Jesus) Notice how the eternal punishment is put on equal ground as eternal life. They are both presented as a real thing and of equal length. [/QUOTE] As always, Jesus spoke on parables. I'm sure you can identify the obvious lesson. Of course Jesus was never naked, ill, hungry and all that. But he says he's offended when you deny food, shelter, medice and so forth that you can obviously spare to people in need. And because people respected him they did not want to see him offended. Both eternal life and eternal punishement are not real.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43862633]As always, Jesus spoke on parables. I'm sure you can identify the obvious lesson. Of course Jesus was never naked, ill, hungry and all that. But he says he's offended when you deny food, shelter, medice and so forth that you can obviously spare to people in need. And because people respected him they did not want to see him offended. Both eternal life and eternal punishement are not real.[/QUOTE] "29 And (A)everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [a]or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive [b]many times as much, and will inherit eternal life." - Matthew 19:29 "15 so that whoever [a]believes will (A)in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so (B)loved the world, that He (C)gave His [b](D)only begotten Son, that whoever (E)believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:15-16 "36 He who (A)believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who (B)does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”" - John 3:36 "24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and (A)believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and (B)does not come into judgment, but has (C)passed out of death into life." - John 5:24 "27 Do not (A)work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to (B)eternal life, which (C)the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, (D)has set His seal.”" - John 6:27 "40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who (A)beholds the Son and (B)believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will (C)raise him up on the last day.”" - John 6:40 "47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes (A)has eternal life." - John 5:47 "2 even as (A)You gave Him authority over all flesh, that (B)to [a]all whom You have given Him, (C)He may give eternal life." - John 17:2 "46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you (A)first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, (B)we are turning to the Gentiles." - Acts 13:46 etc. etc. etc. They sure seems to talk a lot about something isn't isn't real. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Many of these are also not in the context of a parable. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] May I ask what textual evidence you have for your assertion. I hope it's strong since you disagree with essentially every theologian from the first century onwards.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43862633]As always, Jesus spoke on parables. I'm sure you can identify the obvious lesson. Of course Jesus was never naked, ill, hungry and all that. But he says he's offended when you deny food, shelter, medice and so forth that you can obviously spare to people in need. And because people respected him they did not want to see him offended. Both eternal life and eternal punishement are not real.[/QUOTE] Why be religious at all if there is no heaven or hell? I can understand why you'd want to try to disprove hell though. Hell terrifies me, and seeing that post confirm it's existence scares the living daylights out of me, especially since I'm on the fence when it comes to religion. Man I need some help. Religion is all I ever think about anymore.

[QUOTE=Tarado;43862373]I can defiantly tell you the greeks (mainly the Spartans) and some Asians (mongolians) raped and murdered people from other nations for no reason.[/QUOTE] I agree. The Jews did as well. If you read the bible you would know that. The Ten Commandments were racist and applied only to the Jews.

[QUOTE=elevate;43863802]Why be religious at all if there is no heaven or hell? I can understand why you'd want to try to disprove hell though. Hell terrifies me, and seeing that post confirm it's existence scares the living daylights out of me, especially since I'm on the fence when it comes to religion.[/QUOTE] IMO, ultimate justice must exist for God to be good, both reward and punishment and God is the only one with the authority to say what reward and punishment is legitimate.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43863870]IMO, ultimate justice must exist for God to be good, both reward and punishment and God is the only one with the authority to say what reward and punishment is legitimate.[/QUOTE] How can any punishment God gives be fair if he is ultimately responsible for all the behaviors and actions that lead to said punishment?

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43864267]How can any punishment God gives be fair if he is ultimately responsible for all the behaviors and actions that lead to said punishment?[/QUOTE] How can you complain about anything being fair if he made you? Does the potter not have right to do as he wishes with his clay? [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Besides, by the dictates of morality is a construct, might makes right. He is mightiest, and so he defines right.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864420]How can you complain about anything being fair if he made you? Does the potter not have right to do as he wishes with his clay? [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Besides, by the dictates of morality is a construct, might makes right. He is mightiest, and so he defines right.[/QUOTE] If I have a son does that mean I have the right to beat and torture him? After all, I made that son so I can do whatever I want with it.

[QUOTE=Ramirez77;43864438]If I have a son does that mean I have the right to beat and torture him?[/QUOTE] Are you the mightiest? [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] You may be mightier, but you certainly aren't mightiest.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864420]How can you complain about anything being fair if he made you? Does the potter not have right to do as he wishes with his clay? [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Besides, by the dictates of morality is a construct, might makes right. He is mightiest, and so he defines right.[/QUOTE] If God really does exist and he not only created all of the suffering in the world but has the power to end it at any time he wishes but simply doesn't because he likes to watch us suffer for his own amusement, I certainly would not find such a being worthy of worship.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43864502]If God really does exist and he not only created all of the suffering in the world but has the power to end it at any time he wishes but simply doesn't because he likes to watch us suffer for his own amusement, I certainly would not find such a being worthy of worship.[/QUOTE] Well if what you take out of it is that it is solely for his amusement, and everything else is just a means to an end, then I disagree. Regardless, let me ask you; what sort of elohim would be worthy of worship? One who is hedonistic and gives you everything you want? One that does not allow others to act against you? I daresay Xerxes from the movie 300 would be a good fit for you.

Zenreon, can you tell me whether or not god knows everything?

[QUOTE=Explosions;43864564]Zenreon, can you tell me whether or not god knows everything?[/QUOTE] He [B]can[/B] know everything.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864420]How can you complain about anything being fair if he made you? Does the potter not have right to do as he wishes with his clay? [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Besides, by the dictates of morality is a construct, might makes right. He is mightiest, and so he defines right.[/QUOTE] If the clay is alive, no, he doesn't.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43864267]How can any punishment God gives be fair if he is ultimately responsible for all the behaviors and actions that lead to said punishment?[/QUOTE] God created beings with free will with the knowledge that those beings would inevitably fall into sin. He also had the knowledge that he would provide for the salvation of those beings, but ultimately the decision would be left up to them whether or not to accept the salvation.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864571]He [B]can[/B] know everything.[/QUOTE] If he doesn't know everything then how is he omnipotent?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43864628]If the clay is alive, no, he doesn't.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. But if humans are to el, as clay is to a potter. Then he does. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;43864639]If he doesn't know everything then how is he omnipotent?[/QUOTE] Omnipotent means he can do anything, not that he is doing everything at once. You need to review your definitions for Deity properties.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864648]Fair enough. But if humans are to el, as clay is to a potter. Then he does. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Omnipotent means he can do anything, not that he is doing everything at once. You need to review your definitions for Deity properties.[/QUOTE] If an infinite being exists to toy with us as he wills, wishes, and wants, and you want to call him god, so be it, i can't tell you that's not right or not real i just think it's the worst possible outcome to the question that a person could ever have. it would not be like being Andy's toys in Toy Story. It would be like being Sid's toys in Toy Story.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43864563]Well if what you take out of it is that it is solely for his amusement, and everything else is just a means to an end, then I disagree. Regardless, let me ask you; what sort of elohim would be worthy of worship? One who is hedonistic and gives you everything you want? One that does not allow others to act against you? I daresay Xerxes from the movie 300 would be a good fit for you.[/QUOTE] If God is omniscient and omnipotent then I can't see any reason he would let us suffer unless he found some sort of enjoyment in it. Personally I don't like the idea of worshiping deities to begin with but I would be much more inclined to do so with a God that at the very least gave everyone the opportunity to live a life that they see as enjoyable rather than one that knowingly creates some people simply to be born into an existence of suffering. Then again I find the idea of an omniscient and omnipotent being that created everything to directly contradict reality in the first place.

If god has the ability to know all, and therefore prevent suffering created by him, yet he refuses to do so, then he is either malevolent or incompetent.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43864689]If God is omniscient and omnipotent then I can't see any reason he would let us suffer unless he found some sort of enjoyment in it.[/QUOTE] God cannot do illogical things. For example, he cannot create a round square. This in no way limits his power. I would argue that no conceivable existence both allows for free will and has no possibility of suffering.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43864678]If an infinite being exists to toy with us as he wills, wishes, and wants, and you want to call him god, so be it, i can't tell you that's not right or not real i just think it's the worst possible outcome to the question that a person could ever have. it would not be like being Andy's toys in Toy Story. It would be like being Sid's toys in Toy Story.[/QUOTE] I whole heartedly disagree. It would be like being at the toy factory, where at the end of the production line, those that can and are willing to act as nice toys are let out to achieve their created purpose, whereas the rejects that shoot stray missiles at the children and cut and slash are thrown into the fire. If the toy wants to work, but just has a broken leg, the functioning thinking chips are recycled and given new bodies to work with.