Religion Of Christianity - General

[QUOTE=Explosions;43865156]You keep saying that god is bound by logic, but that means he is bound by laws higher than himself.[/QUOTE] He is logic. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Rather, logic is one of his properties.

First off, just want to clarify. Whoever is saying that "God" is something or exists, how can you even support your argument. Didn't you know that religion is all opinion and not facts? Come on now, at least people without a religion like myself can prove you wrong with science, but then again, science also has "Theories" you see religions are just "Theories" that were made up as far as our knowledge goes. Because if it were so real, the scientists would have found out something by now that would somehow prove the existence of God or something as a higher-being. In conclusion, don't say God is real and start saying why, to be honest, it's a WASTE of time. Because you don't even know if your religion was made up or not. I understand, defending your beliefs, but all you can do is refer to stuff that no one knows happened. Sometimes people refer to "miracles" which are on TV and they are ALL a big bunch of fake propaganda that was used for attention. Glad this thread is progressing!

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865149]Cool, misunderstanding of an old word, and minimal familiarization with religious philosophy.[/QUOTE] These aren't my own conclusions ask Descartes about what he thinks.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865179]Then the question you're asking comes down to "are you a hedonist or a moral superior?" in which case I don't see the relevancy at all[/QUOTE] Why must it come down to that? Please explain to me why I am a 'moral superior' by your words because I choose the turd.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865176]That's an illogical hypothetical. It's like saying: If this circle had corners would it be able to cut you? The question makes no sense on it's face.[/QUOTE] then turn it on it's back and think about it for longer than it took you to decide you'd dismiss it The idea is, if anything god does is by definition good, then if we are to look at our actions in the past, much of the things we'd like to call "evil" is by now, defined as "good" because it shares with it godly traits. Mass murder is good because god did it.

[QUOTE=Explosions;43865130]Same difference. He would know your final choice.[/QUOTE] No, because he is not taking control of me so that I make that choice. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865132]if that's the only choice you were ever going to make, is it free will? Is it?[/QUOTE] If there was nothing restricting me from making a different choice, then yes. Just because I will ultimately choose one option does not mean that I am restricted from choosing others.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43865185]First off, just want to clarify. Whoever is saying that "God" is something or exists, how can you even support your argument. Didn't you know that religion is all opinion and not facts? Come on now, at least people without a religion like myself can prove you wrong with science, but then again, science also has "Theories" you see religions are just "Theories" that were made up as far as our knowledge goes. Because if it were so real, the scientists would have found out something by now that would somehow prove the existence of God or something as a higher-being. In conclusion, don't say God is real and start saying why, to be honest, it's a WASTE of time. Because you don't even know if your religion was made up or not. I understand, defending your beliefs, but all you can do is refer to stuff that no one knows happened. Sometimes people refer to "miracles" which are on TV and they are ALL a big bunch of fake propaganda that was used for attention. Glad this thread is progressing![/QUOTE] We are obviously working under the assumption that God exists for the sake of the argument. You add nothing by coming in here and saying: "Hey, you are all being dumb. So stop."

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865192]Why must it come down to that? Please explain to me why I am a 'moral superior' by your words because I choose the turd.[/QUOTE] Because you decided to define the rose as hedonism earlier how does that not scream that you think you're morally superior to anyone who would take the rose no one understood this. I still don't understand it. I don't even think you really understand it.

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43865195]No, because he is not taking control of me so that I make that choice.[/QUOTE] So then he doesn't know the endgame? Which is it?

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43865195]No, because he is not taking control of me so that I make that choice.[/QUOTE] But again whether or not he is in control of that decision doesn't matter because you still never had the free will to choose a different option to begin with.

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43865195]No, because he is not taking control of me so that I make that choice.[/QUOTE] but did he not create you, the systems that allow you to exist, everything in essence that comes into play in a determinist world that would allow you to make those choices? did he not define your choices by the situations he placed you in?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865194]The idea is, if anything god does is by definition good,[/QUOTE] This isn't what I said. God's actions don't define goodness. His nature defines goodness and his actions follow from his nature.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865181]He is logic. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] Rather, logic is one of his properties.[/QUOTE] This is literally just a bunch of meaningless cop-out nonsense.

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43858359]Of course we have doubts, where are you even drawing this from? Anyone who's thought a moment about their faith has had doubts, doubt isn't a sin.[/QUOTE] He's using one of the main stereotypes of religion. I thought it was obvious to everyone (apparently not), but not everyone is a stereotype, and not everyone is unnecessarily stubborn. (I say "unnecessarily" be cause stubbornness is not always bad. Without a balanced amount, everyone'd be gullible)

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43865195]No, because he is not taking control of me so that I make that choice.[/QUOTE] unless you can make a choice god doesn't know about, you can't have truly free will. you can just have planned life by a master being.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865204]We are obviously working under the assumption that God exists for the sake of the argument. You add nothing by coming in here and saying: "Hey, you are all being dumb. So stop."[/QUOTE] I think you're getting off at the wrong point. I didn't say that first of all, I'm saying that if you're implying God is REAL and talking about it like it's a fact, stop. But of course support that God is real or christianity if you want, but don't talk like it was proven already.

[QUOTE=Explosions;43865189]These aren't my own conclusions ask Descartes about what he thinks.[/QUOTE] Thomas Aquinas disagrees.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865224]This isn't what I said. God's actions don't define goodness. His nature defines goodness and his actions follow from his nature.[/QUOTE] so like I said in the first place, he can't do a bad thing? right? you said that that's a statement that doesn't even make sense so if god was to do something like that, it would be by definition good because his actions flow from his nature and goodness so it would be a good action stop dodging with fancy words and just answer the question. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865243]Thomas Aquinas disagrees.[/QUOTE] Aquinas isn't the be all end all of philosophers...

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43865227]This is literally just a bunch of meaningless cop-out nonsense.[/QUOTE] No, it is assigning transcendental things to a transcendental being. A being is a collection of complexity which needn't refer outside of itself.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865224]This isn't what I said. God's actions don't define goodness. His nature defines goodness and his actions follow from his nature.[/QUOTE] If God cannot defy his own nature then he isn't omnipotent.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865247]so like I said in the first place, he can't do a bad thing? right? you said that that's a statement that doesn't even make sense so if god was to do something like that, it would be by definition good because his actions flow from his nature and goodness so it would be a good action stop dodging with fancy words and just answer the question.[/QUOTE] I'm not dodging anything. Example: The nature of a circle is that it is round. It is therefore illogical to ask what a circle with corners would look like. In the same way the nature of God is good. It is therefore illogical to ask what would happen if he did something evil.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865262]I'm not dodging anything. Example: The nature of a circle is that it is round. It is therefore illogical to ask what a circle with corners would look like. In the same way the nature of God is good. It is therefore illogical to ask what would happen if he did something evil.[/QUOTE] So then it's impossible for God to do something bad. Or in other words, he isn't omnipotent.

You're missing my point still. He has done these things if we take christian history as truth and they were good acts so those acts can be good

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43865256]If God cannot defy his own nature then he isn't omnipotent.[/QUOTE] If something isn't possible, then it isn't a lack of power to not be able to do it. Omnipotence is to have power over everything. Illogical statements aren't things.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865206]Because you decided to define the rose as hedonism earlier how does that not scream that you think you're morally superior to anyone who would take the rose no one understood this. I still don't understand it. I don't even think you really understand it.[/QUOTE] It is a simple question which I ask for reasoning for. I never said I was better than anyone, I simply said what I would choose and why. Which would [B]you[/B] choose and why? I chose the turd because it allows me a variety of experience within my life, and all else being equal it makes all else better. Now can you give me some REASONS for why you would choose the flower?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43865278]You're missing my point still. He has done these things if we take christian history as truth and they were good acts so those acts can be good[/QUOTE] Well why didn't you say that was the point you wanted to make in the first place? Ha. Please give me a specific example just to make the conversation a little less vague.

[QUOTE=sgman91;43865285]If something isn't possible, then it isn't a lack of power to not be able to do it. Omnipotence is to have power over everything. Illogical statements aren't things.[/QUOTE] If you have power over everything you must therefore have power over what constitutes logical possibility. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865289]It is a simple question which I ask for reasoning for. I never said I was better than anyone, I simply said what I would choose and why. Which would [B]you[/B] choose and why? I chose the turd because it allows me a variety of experience within my life, and all else being equal it makes all else better. Now can you give me some REASONS for why you would choose the flower?[/QUOTE] How is this relevant to the discussion whatsoever? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;43865301]If you have power over everything you must therefore have power over what constitutes logical possibility.[/QUOTE] No? You aren't really making an argument at this point. You're just stating something as true. Can you provide an actual argument as to why your statement would be correct?

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;43865289]It is a simple question which I ask for reasoning for. I never said I was better than anyone, I simply said what I would choose and why. Which would [B]you[/B] choose and why? I chose the turd because it allows me a variety of experience within my life, and all else being equal it makes all else better. Now can you give me some REASONS for why you would choose the flower?[/QUOTE] Honestly I can't understand how the turd gives you ANY of those things. I read your post 5 times trying to figure out what you think you're getting from it but I don't understand at all. I would take the flower. It's a complicated ordered system. It has properties I appreciate. It's pretty. From a scientific perspective, it's an intricate system that I can study. You dismiss this by saying you'll simplify it to a good smelling spray and a bad one. Honestly, think of a better thought experiment. This one literally does nothing discernible.

What would happen if an unstoppable force met an immovable object?