Everyone here who isn't clinically retarded "believe" in evolution.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;17740687]Umm yes it is.
I don't think you know what a scientific theory is.[/QUOTE]
The 'theory of evolution' is distinct from 'evolution' in that one is a [B]fact[/B], and one is a [B]scientific theory[/B] describing the fact. It is a fact that evolution occurs as it's nothing more than change over time in a species, this isn't disputed by anyone(I hope). What is disputed is whether or not the '[B]theory[/B] of evolution' is accurate in describing the 'fact of evolution', and if it's valid when you extrapolate back in time using this model. Of course the answer to this is a resounding [B]yes[/B] if you know anything about biology and logic in general.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;17740742]The reason science is wrong it because it changes all the time when we find new evidence. Religion have been wrong since it first came to be, there just aren't anyone who accepts it.[/QUOTE]
Science cannot be wrong though, only its application. A theory can be invalidated by new evidence or more accurate instruments, but that doesn't mean the theory is now wrong, it's just no longer sufficient to explain the evidence at hand. For example, Netwon's law of universal gravitation; it isn't wrong, as it works for certain scales, i.e. using facts they had present at the time, but it's not longer sufficient as it doesn't explain new observations, so it needed to be altered or replaced, which it was. As long as a given theory explains all observed phenomena and can make predictions then it's valid up until the time it doesn't, the theory of evolution is such a strong theory because it's so elegant and it explains so much of the evidence we've collected and continue to collect. To the point where it's practically impossible for anything new to invalidate it, but only require small aspects be tweaked.
Good points.
[QUOTE=Darkcoder;17740913]
Science cannot be wrong though, only its application. A theory can be invalidated by new evidence or more accurate instruments, but that doesn't mean the theory is now wrong, it's just no longer sufficient to explain the evidence at hand. For example, Netwon's law of universal gravitation; it isn't wrong, as it works for certain scales, i.e. using facts they had present at the time, but it's not longer sufficient as it doesn't explain new observations, so it needed to be altered or replaced, which it was. As long as a given theory explains all observed phenomena and can make predictions then it's valid up until the time it doesn't, the theory of evolution is such a strong theory because it's so elegant and it explains so much of the evidence we've collected and continue to collect. To the point where it's practically impossible for anything new to invalidate it, but only require small aspects be tweaked.[/QUOTE]
Claiming that science is wrong is like blaming the hammer when the house you built with it collapses.
[QUOTE=melonmonkey;17734522]I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority of sicentists don't believe we evolved from monkeys.
Also, that video is stupid. It doesn't distinguish between micro and macro evolution. Since when did not believing in evolution force you to completely abandon logic? Does believing in a God automaticaly make paying 100 dollars for a peanut a good choice?[/QUOTE]
The only difference between macro and micro evolution is time. Macro evolution IS micro evolution, over thousands of generations.
Saying that micro evolution exists and that macro doesn't is ridiculous. It is a matter of time scale.
It would be like saying you can walk to a friend's house, but not to the mall.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;17734568]Though since we're in the same line as monkeys, we're technically still monkeys right now. Sort of in the same way that we're still mammals.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24[/media]
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;17740862]I know most people hate Richard Dawkins, but his new book is quite good.
<THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH>
You should read it.[/QUOTE]
I am :buddy:
[QUOTE=Von Kluth;17740007]But the Bible also tells stories of sharing and forgiving.
Couldn't todays world need a little more of that?[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, but as does a whole bunch of other books.
To quote a great man:
[quote=George Carlin]And for those of you that look to the Bible for it's literary qualities and moral lessons; I got a couple other stories I might like to recommend for you. You might enjoy The Three Little Pigs. That's a good one. It has a nice happy ending. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood. Although it does have that one X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty.[/quote]
Why not just go with stories that are entirely positive, instead of just picking stories out of a mixed book? You should also know that if you're using the bible for moral consultation, but only pick and choose, you're not actually following the bible, you're using it to reinforce your own beliefs, meaning the book had nothing to do with your original choice at all, see?
[QUOTE=rapperkid04;17737160]Evolution hasn't been fully proven to be true. Just like religion, it has holes in it. Missing information, invalid proof, etc. So just because it seems logical doesn't mean it's 100% fact. That's what I'm getting at. I do believe that evolution does take place but you can't just assume that all religions are absolutely nuts because a different group believes we evolved from primates.[/QUOTE]
A scientific theory is never a fact, a scientific theory is the best explanation for a phenomenon we currently have. A theory can never be proven right, only wrong, and theories are proven wrong all the time. But until we have a better explanation (Assuming we'll ever get one), the theory of evolution is the best explanation we have, and that, by all definitions, makes it true. Now, this doesn't mean that we should stop looking for alternative explanations, by no means! If we just went with whatever we had at the time, we'd never get anywhere. Believe you me, there are people out there trying their very best to disprove the theory of evolution, and one day they may succeed, but that day is not today.
[QUOTE=Von Kluth;17737593]God only exist in the mind of the people who believe in him/her.
It/he/she didn't create the universe, nor human beings.
The point of a God is so that people should have something to rely on.
A place to go to when you need help etc.
The Bible is a guide for life. Again, to help you out.
IT'S NOT A BOOK OF FACTS.[/QUOTE]
You'd have more luck asking for advice from the people around you, they know you and can therefore give you advice that is relevant to your life and this world. They'd have a much better chance of helping you than the guessworks of priests some 2000 years ago.
[QUOTE=neap tide;17737093]Prayer has had effect in multiple studies.
[editline]10:04PM[/editline]
btw[/QUOTE]
False. Not in any scientifically legitimate studies anyhow. There was one a few years back done by scientists for science, and funded by the Templeton Foundation (A religiously driven organization no less!), the study showed that prayer had no effect on the 1802 patients who participated in the study. It even showed that the patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher chance of post-op complications.
Source: [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html[/url]
[QUOTE=neap tide;17737142][url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293237/[/url]
There's even a website for it;
[url]http://www.prayer-for-cancer.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
That article even says there's a 2-5% chance of surviving, meaning it's bound to happen sooner or later. Now, had the guy lost his head(Or a limb even) and had it magically regrow, that would be an impossibility, and if that had happened by the help of prayer you might've had a case.
I don't understand why people can't be religious and believe in evolution.
If God is all powerful, it can't be too hard for him to make evolution happen.
Plus there are examples which pretty much provide concrete evidence that evolution is real and happening all the time. The Peppered Moth Example i studied in class and is very good evidence for evolution, read the part about Environmental changes: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution[/url]
[QUOTE=02browns;17742132]I don't understand why people can't be religious and believe in evolution.
If God is all powerful, it can't be too hard for him to make evolution happen.
Plus there are examples which pretty much provide concrete evidence that evolution is real and happening all the time. The Peppered Moth Example i studied in class and is very good evidence for evolution, read the part about Environmental changes: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution[/url][/QUOTE]
The problem (For Christians atleast), is that if we came to be through evolution, it invalidates the story of Adam and Eve, and a bunch of other stories, and they simply can't have that.
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;17742179]The problem (For Christians atleast), is that if we came to be through evolution, it invalidates the story of Adam and Eve, and a bunch of other stories, and they simply can't have that.[/QUOTE]
What happens when/if we have a first contact with an intelligent alien species?
Religion... So primitive.
Debate is mostly going on in America. Here in Finland we all accept that we evolved from apes.
Heh here is quote from my grandad: [QUOTE]Bible is biggest tale book in the world[/QUOTE]
cool story bro...
So why do a lot of people apparently hate Richard Dawkins? I think he is a quite civil and polite atheist, seeing a lot of atheist debaters are pretty much assholes.
[QUOTE=02browns;17742132]I don't understand why people can't be religious and believe in evolution.
If God is all powerful, it can't be too hard for him to make evolution happen.
Plus there are examples which pretty much provide concrete evidence that evolution is real and happening all the time. The Peppered Moth Example i studied in class and is very good evidence for evolution, read the part about Environmental changes: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution[/url][/QUOTE]The peppered moth is an excellent example.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;17734566]You can be religious and believe in evolution! It's called not being ignorant.
Also, humans didn't evolve from monkeys, they evolved from apes.[/QUOTE]
Being religious is to deliberately abandon all logic when it comes to your specific beliefs and just believe it for no reason.
[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;17742212]What happens when/if we have a first contact with an intelligent alien species?[/QUOTE]
They'll make up some other excuse.
[QUOTE=Von Kluth;17740711]Well it used to be a fact that the world was flat, and that the Antique statues never had been painted.
Science has, through history, been wrong most of the time.
But the theory of evolution... well, nothing else seems as logical. Not by far.[/QUOTE]
Not really. I personally see that science is always right on direct observation, albeit on certain length scales.
For example, if you want to know how gravity works on earth, Newtonian physics is nearly flawless. However, it fails when you go beyond a certain point.
The same thing goes for relativity and quantum mechanics.
[editline]05:22PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17740903]The guy who told some Creationist's to turn of the camera because he couldn't answer their questions?[/QUOTE]
The guy who could and later did answer their questions but told them to leave because they lied about the film they were making you mean?
You don't put faith in fact. Faith (belief) is put into something that can't be proven, is hard to explain or is highly implausible. E.G. Fact is something you know, God is something you believe in.
If there is a God, he just doesn't care. Either that or he isn't how we have described him.
An omniscient being would have predicted the evil of man that caused him to flood the world (Noah) therefore he would have removed the capability for us to do such evil.
This would suggest that he isn't omniscient. However, a being that trancends space and time must be; for he would have seen everything that have ever taken place and everything that will take place.
That's pretty good evidence that God isn't omniscient. Nonetheless, consider this: If God foresaw the evil in man [I]before[/I] he flooded the world and wiped damn near the entire species out, and he didn't prevent us from doing that, does that not suggest that he isn't omnibenevolent?
If God isn't omnibenevolent, and the bible is to be taken as his word, what would stop the very book that so many people have devoted their life to, from being nothing more than propaganda in the eternal war between God and Lucifer?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;17743199]If there is a God, he just doesn't care. Either that or he isn't how we have described him.
An omniscient being would have predicted the evil of man that caused him to flood the world (Noah) therefore he would have removed the capability for us to do such evil.
This would suggest that he isn't omniscient. However, a being that trancends space and time must be; for he would have seen everything that have ever taken place and everything that will take place.
That's pretty good evidence that God isn't omniscient. Nonetheless, consider this: If God foresaw the evil in man [I]before[/I] he flooded the world and wiped damn near the entire species out, and he didn't prevent us from doing that, does that not suggest that he isn't omnibenevolent?
If God isn't omnibenevolent, and the bible is to be taken as his word, what would stop the very book thatso many people have devoted their life to, from being nothing more than propaganda in the eternal war between God and Lucifer?[/QUOTE]
Or you can't see that God let everything happen for a reason.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17743216]Or you can't see that God let everything happen for a reason.[/QUOTE]
If there is a reason it has nothing to do with us being happy.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17743216]Or you can't see that God let everything happen for a reason.[/QUOTE]
That may well be true, that God lets little children starve and suffer and everything. This is all irreconcileable with the fact that he has to be a huge dick. I don't worship huge dicks.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17743216]Or you can't see that God let everything happen for a reason.[/QUOTE]
"Lets everything happen for a reason" is just a bullshit excuse used instead of explaining said divine action.
[QUOTE=Cathbadh;17743290]That may well be true, that God lets little children starve and suffer and everything. This is all irreconcileable with the fact that he has to be a huge dick. I don't worship huge dicks.[/QUOTE]
No, we do, not god.
^ Agreed.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17743424]No, we do, not god.[/QUOTE]
If god is almighty then he is able to save them, yet he doesn't.
That kind of letting them..
Religion is primitive.
On the other hand evolution...
[QUOTE=john_pelphre;17734638]If you think something is true, than you believe in it.[/QUOTE]
If you think something is true and have a good reason to think that and have evidence for it, you accept it.
If you think something for which there is no evidence exists, you believe in it.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;17743216]Or you can't see that God let everything happen for a reason.[/QUOTE]
Because that would be begging the question.
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