[QUOTE=viperfan7;32978366]and this is why Canada is a nice place, although this is more of an equality thing, both men and women can walk around shirtless in public, at least I'm quite sure of this, you just never see it exploited :P[/QUOTE]
How fat are your women?
[QUOTE=Tazza;32984040]ASS TO MOUTH[/QUOTE]
only in the heat of the moment is ass to mouth sometimes ok
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32982797]
Using that logic, we also shouldn't kill animals or forcibly cage them because it's against their will. Besides pleasuring them, sex doesn't affect larger animals that are the target of beastiality, unless intentional harm is caused.[/QUOTE]
Where's the line drawn between animal rape and human rape.
It's fucked up is the main part of it, and there isn't a consent type thing.
[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;32979180]Incest doesn't cause genetic defects in the short term unless both parties carry the same defect, though most incestuous relationships begin with some sort of manipulation (as in between parent & child or brother & sister).[/QUOTE]
uh, there are a [I]lot[/I] of possible recessive genetic defects out there, so everyone' likely to have quite a few (carriers if not expressed). When you consider that when a brother and sister have a child together the child will most likely have several duplicate chromosomes you have some very bad shit indeed.
Generally any type of fetish I would agree should be a taboo in public.
[QUOTE=Kymandu;32985279]Generally any type of fetish I would agree should be a taboo in public.[/QUOTE]
Why should every fetish be taboo? I can't see why you could possibly think this. We greatly sexualize legs in media/entertainment as well as leather/etc on people. Those are fetishistic and accepted.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32984200]uh, there are a [I]lot[/I] of possible recessive genetic defects out there, so everyone' likely to have quite a few (carriers if not expressed). When you consider that when a brother and sister have a child together the child will most likely have several duplicate chromosomes you have some very bad shit indeed.[/QUOTE]
This is veering into eugenics territory. I've read before that for first-generation incest the chance of defects only increases by 2 or 3%, but I can't relocate the article so feel free to challenge this statement. But by stating, "everyone' likely to have quite a few (carriers if not expressed)," aren't you also stating that therefore no one should breed? If everyone's a carrier for multiple negative recessive traits, then nobody can justify having children by your logic.
i'm fine with any so-called taboo as long as it is between consenting people and doesn't abuse animals.
[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;32986000]This is veering into eugenics territory. I've read before that for first-generation incest the chance of defects only increases by 2 or 3%, but I can't relocate the article so feel free to challenge this statement. But by stating, "everyone' likely to have quite a few (carriers if not expressed)," aren't you also stating that therefore no one should breed? If everyone's a carrier for multiple negative recessive traits, then nobody can justify having children by your logic.[/QUOTE]
First, "quite a few" can mean a thousand defects out of a million possible, in which case the chance of having a baby with some random woman and having TWO recessive genes meet, creating problems, would be .0001%. Whereas if you banged your sister and one quarter of your chromosomes were duplicates, you'd have 250 recessive defects. That's certainly not the actual numbers but it demonstrates why it wouldn't entail damnation of breeding in general, when I didn't specify actual numbers.
Second, the whole point is to avoid that which greatly increases genetic problems.
Personally I think that the western culture is over "Exposed" and under educated, meaning that we know what sex is, mostly how to do it, but we really are dumb when it comes to consequences and WHY sex can be ultimately intimate. And on top of that, you have women flaunting around their goods, and yet are unavailable which I find to be highly bad for society, I think it can cause people to be highly irritated and may cause some of the anger in the world, I believe in a sexually liberated society, as well as educated one.
Now in the regards of Taboo, I find that anything proven to be harmful should be a taboo, incest is one, while the occasional young 8 yr old experiment probably won't cause harm, it should be well established no no. But where my opinion differs is in that of bestiality, from what I've read and ran into over the years I feel it acceptable in some cases, because most people for animal rights claim its to the same effect as rape, and I disagree, I think animals can give consent, not written or spoken, but with physical language, to put it in perspective, if you're in bed with your GF/Wife/Bf/Husband or whatever, you can start getting intimate and start making out and then get into foreplay without saying a damned word.
Basically my thoughts are, that Sex is good, studies show that its good for you, it relieve stress and relaxes you, and to have such a shunning sex (yet advertising using sex) creates a really high-strung society and ready to get it on public, yet we can't because we have people that make it seem like the end of the world, and as for anything thats "bad" its anything with a victim, anyone who it harms or didn't really want it.
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;32983980]how can you be sure you're pleasuring the animal? It's not like it breathes a sigh and says "Oh yeah". In such a case, you're doing what you want with only assumptions of the animal's notions. People have sex through desire and for pleasure among other reasons. As of yet (and as far as I know...) we do not know whether an animal wants to humped by a person. And a person has no place making that decision for the animal[/QUOTE]
Have you ever tried to catch a wild dog, tried to cage a wolf, they do NOT put up with it, they will fight for their life, and in that sense if an aimal (say horse) just sits there and "takes" it while you hump away, and you've clearly bonded, be it through caring for the animal or what have you, I'd consider that consent itself (I'd never actually have sex with an animal, they just seem dirty, they don't shower and yeah) And you also know that as we know Animals can't really "speak" any language, so how do they communicate with each other that they want sex ? Body language, again using horses as an example the female horse "winks" and well, the male ... that's damned obvious... (I've lived in a rural area for a time so I've learned these things) So I don't see why an animal can't do its part to "Consent"
this is a taboo fyhi
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[img]http://ruinsmiley.tripod.com/RUINSMILEY_files/devil.gif[/img]
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[QUOTE=butter bob;32986533]this is a taboo fyhi
(big picture of gay porn)[/QUOTE] (Removed post)
Just because we wan't a less taboo/judging society does not mean we want sex thrown into our faces, that's just etticate and common decency.
hang all gays
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[img]http://ruinsmiley.tripod.com/RUINSMILEY_files/FIREdevil.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;32986527]Have you ever tried to catch a wild dog, tried to cage a wolf, they do NOT put up with it, they will fight for their life, and in that sense if an animal (say horse) just sits there and "takes" it while you hump away, and you've clearly bonded, be it through caring for the animal or what have you, I'd consider that consent itself.[/QUOTE]
That's the same basic argument some pedophiles use to justify child sex abuse. It doesn't work because there is a significant difference between consent and informed consent. It's clear animals cannot give informed consent just as it's clear children cannot, what it comes down to is whether we value their rights to informed consent as much as we value the same rights for humans. This gets into a completely separate issue though.
I think the reason why these sexual taboos are there, is because we put sex on a pedestal.
I mean, on the topic of beastiality, the only real argument is that they cannot consent. But there's something jarring about that to me. What is it about sex that makes it so much more official and contract-like, than anything else? I mean, caging an animal, riding a horse, having an animal as a pet, training a hawk, training a parrot to talk, etc. etc. - All of these have been done to the animal without either consent or informed consent. [I](Additionally, they are also done for similar reasons in many cases; fun/pleasure/amusement/entertainment)[/I]
But somehow, there's no problem when it comes to those? How come people see sex as so dangerous that you have to pass a test of consent before you can handle it?
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;32990510]I think the reason why these sexual taboos are there, is because we put sex on a pedestal.
I mean, on the topic of beastiality, the only real argument is that they cannot consent. But there's something jarring about that to me. What is it about sex that makes it so much more official and contract-like? I mean, caging an animal, riding a horse, having an animal as a pet, training a hawk, training a parrot to talk, etc. etc. - All of these have been done to the animal without either consent or informed consent.
But somehow, there's no problem when it comes to those? How come people see sex as so dangerous that you have to pass a test of consent before you can handle it?[/QUOTE]
Because it can harm the animal
[QUOTE=glitchvid;32986527]Personally I think that the western culture is over "Exposed" and under educated, meaning that we know what sex is, mostly how to do it, but we really are dumb when it comes to consequences and WHY sex can be ultimately intimate. And on top of that, you have women flaunting around their goods, and yet are unavailable which I find to be highly bad for society, I think it can cause people to be highly irritated and may cause some of the anger in the world, I believe in a sexually liberated society, as well as educated one.
Now in the regards of Taboo, I find that anything proven to be harmful should be a taboo, incest is one, while the occasional young 8 yr old experiment probably won't cause harm, it should be well established no no. But where my opinion differs is in that of bestiality, from what I've read and ran into over the years I feel it acceptable in some cases, because most people for animal rights claim its to the same effect as rape, and I disagree, I think animals can give consent, not written or spoken, but with physical language, to put it in perspective, if you're in bed with your GF/Wife/Bf/Husband or whatever, you can start getting intimate and start making out and then get into foreplay without saying a damned word.
Basically my thoughts are, that Sex is good, studies show that its good for you, it relieve stress and relaxes you, and to have such a shunning sex (yet advertising using sex) creates a really high-strung society and ready to get it on public, yet we can't because we have people that make it seem like the end of the world, and as for anything thats "bad" its anything with a victim, anyone who it harms or didn't really want it.
Have you ever tried to catch a wild dog, tried to cage a wolf, they do NOT put up with it, they will fight for their life, and in that sense if an aimal (say horse) just sits there and "takes" it while you hump away, and you've clearly bonded, be it through caring for the animal or what have you, I'd consider that consent itself (I'd never actually have sex with an animal, they just seem dirty, they don't shower and yeah) And you also know that as we know Animals can't really "speak" any language, so how do they communicate with each other that they want sex ? Body language, again using horses as an example the female horse "winks" and well, the male ... that's damned obvious... (I've lived in a rural area for a time so I've learned these things) So I don't see why an animal can't do its part to "Consent"[/QUOTE]
Son, if you've got problems with women displaying their skin, then I think the rainbow bars downtown await your arrival. Taken or not, I find it my manly duty to check out the tight asses and exposed cleavages you can see on the streets.
Some here are not getting that sexy =/= sex. It's open to being sexy, not to actually perform sex.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32990522]Because it can harm the animal[/QUOTE]
But why is sex an exception for that rule? Riding it can harm it, forcing it somewhere harms it, training it using punishment and reward can harm it. Why are you making an exception for sex?
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;32983980]To me, sex is a deeply personal thing to do with someone. An act that shows that the people involved trust each other with their bodies. It does not have to be love, but I think it should be between people who at least care for each other in some way.[/QUOTE]
You're stating what you feel and think [i]again[/i] without providing any reasoning as to why it's right [i]again[/i].
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;32983980]I disagree with the notions that some people have today of 'getting as much pussy as I can', it just seems wrong to treat sex like a game where you keep scores or whatnot. I do not like seeing media exploit these acts as something that makes you 'cool', 'popular', or a better person in some way. However, this is only my perspective. I've grown up traveling and as such I only know people for at most five years. I try not to take people for granted and I see these relationships- short as they may be- as significant bonds.[/QUOTE]
More baseless feelings and opinions. If you're not actually going to attempt to persuade us with reasoning, [i]then why are you posting here?[/i]
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;32983980]The way I see it, a person who is dead should be given the liberties of a burial, cremation, or liquefaction. Not be kept around as a sex toy or fuck-dummy for one's personal pleasures.[/QUOTE]
They're dead, it doesn't effect them in anyway. You're making arbitrary statements based on feelings. Again, why are you posting here.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32996274]But why is sex an exception for that rule? Riding it can harm it, forcing it somewhere harms it, training it using punishment and reward can harm it. Why are you making an exception for sex?[/QUOTE]
The same reason you're not allowed to kick your dog and break its ribs, it's abuse. If you fuck a person without consent it's counted as rape because it hurts that person in a way, same applies with animals.
And any punishment that could result in harm is most certainly illegal in any country with decent animal rights.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996403]The same reason you're not allowed to kick your dog and break its ribs, it's abuse.[/QUOTE]
What about riding, killing them, training them, or forcing them to go somewhere? That harms them.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996403]If you fuck a person without consent it's counted as rape because it hurts that person in a way, same applies with animals.[/QUOTE]
Most animals aren't anywhere near being considered a person for various reasons that I won't delve into, so your comparison is invalid.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32996566]What about riding, killing them, training them, or forcing them to go somewhere? That harms them.
Maybe you missed the part where I specified my argument for larger animals, not cats or gophers or whatever.
Most animals aren't anywhere near being considered a person for various reasons that I won't delve into, so your comparison is invalid.[/QUOTE]
You're only allowed to kill them in a humane way or if you're in desperate need of food, otherwise it's considered abuse. As for riding training or forcing them to go somewhere, I really doubt much harm comes to your typical house pet.
And no that's not an invalid comparison, animals have the same right not to be abused much like people.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996605]You're only allowed to kill them in a humane way or if you're in desperate need of food, otherwise it's considered abuse. As for riding training or forcing them to go somewhere, I really doubt much harm comes to your typical house pet.[/QUOTE]
If something harms an animal, it's rather easy to tell.
So if you're not harming an animal while having sex with it, why does it matter?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996605]And no that's not an invalid comparison, animals have the same right not to be abused much like people.[/QUOTE]
They don't have the same consent laws or the same rights to their own being. You're making an arbitrary exception for sex.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32996869]If something harms an animal, it's rather easy to tell.
So if you're not harming an animal while having sex with it, why does it matter?
They don't have the same consent laws or the same rights to their own being. You're making an arbitrary exception for sex.[/QUOTE]
It's not an arbitrary exception, it's better to just keep it illegal and not give people loopholes around possible abuse
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996902]It's not an arbitrary exception, it's better to just keep it illegal and not give people loopholes around possible abuse[/QUOTE]
Are you also of the opinion that we should ban driving, flying, hunting, heavy machinery, guns, anything sharp, genitals, or anything really, because those can all be used to abuse?
Or are you going to be sensible and say no, because you can use those in a perfectly safe way.
Beastiality can be done in a perfectly safe, harm free way.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32997004]Are you also of the opinion that we should ban driving, flying, hunting, heavy machinery, guns, anything sharp, genitals, or anything really, because those can all be used to abuse?
Or are you going to be sensible and say no, because you can use those in a perfectly safe way.
Beastiality can be done in a perfectly safe, harm free way.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit, an animal cannot consent to it, leave things the way they are instead of risking the completely unneeded abuse of animals. It's not like people need to be able to rape animals, I'm sure they'll live without.
And if by hunting you mean hunting for sport then yes it should be banned, I hate trophy killing.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32997040]Bullshit, an animal cannot consent to it,[/QUOTE]
Animals don't have the same consent laws, we've already established this.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32997040]leave things the way they are instead of risking the completely unneeded abuse of animals. It's not like people need to be able to rape animals, I'm sure they'll live without.[/QUOTE]
Status quo fallacy. I guess this means I win.
Why don't you do the intellectual thing and concede.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32997087]Animals don't have the same consent laws, we've already established this.
Status quo fallacy. I guess this means I win.[/QUOTE]
Animals do have consent laws, I.E bestiality being illegal.
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32997087]
Why don't you do the intellectual thing and concede.[/QUOTE]
Because you're talking shit?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32997100]Animals do have consent laws, I.E bestiality being illegal.[/QUOTE]
Beastiality falls under animal abuse, not consent.
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