[QUOTE=Kazumi;25901789]You are one of the cool christians on this forums. I remember way back when we had the old custom forums and you discussed and were curious about a lot of things.[/QUOTE]
Christ that was a long time ago.
Good times.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902645]yea what if he did, does that change anything?[/QUOTE]
technicly he would have lied at some point where he told the people that the earth was about 4004 years old. And I'm pretty sure christianity says lying is a sin
[QUOTE=Viper the Tiger;25902558]You atheists don't need to be so arguemental. If you read Christians' posts carefully you will understand their reasons for belief.[/QUOTE]
If you go around asking most Christians why they believe what they believe, a good majority of them will bring in the fact that they were raised believing so. It's not exactly their fault. They have the full ability to draw out of that religion when they're old enough to know that a lot of the followers are flawed. Those that do, good for them choosing their own path. Those who don't, I applaud them for "sticking to their guns" so to speak. Neither path is any reason to hate on them unless they directly offend you by shoving a bible in your face or something equally obnoxious.
Which, I hope no one of religious background here does.
[QUOTE=Extinct;25902697]technicly he would have lied at some point where he told the people that the earth was about 4004 years old. And I'm pretty sure christianity says lying is a sin[/QUOTE]
I don't remember the bible giving any exact date. I for one believe in the bible being a metaphoric document.
since creating something out of nothing is impossible no matter how powerful you are or what you universe you live in or having infinite of something is also impossible then god doesnt exist
[QUOTE=vizard38;25902719]I don't remember the bible giving any exact date. I for one believe in the bible being a metaphoric document.[/QUOTE]
Most conservative groups within Christianity still follow the estimate of Dr. John Lightfoot, a 17th century Anglican clergyman. He estimated that creation occurred during 4004 BCE Bishop James Ussher in the 17th century made the same estimate a decade later, and got almost all the credit.
not the "current" bible but an older one
[QUOTE=Pascall;25902577]Why are you bolding statements?
I know what I said.[/QUOTE]
Your statement shows that your belief in Christianity does not come from logic, but from ignorance and indoctrination. Usually it is a lot more subtle, but your reason for belief fits the EXACT definition of ignorance and indoctrination.
1.)Ignorance- a state of being uninformed.
"It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known"
2.)Indoctrination- to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments
"I've gone to the same church since before I was even born every Sunday and Wednesday. It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known."
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902747]since creating something out of nothing is impossible no matter how powerful you are or what you universe you live in or having infinite of something is also impossible then god doesnt exist[/QUOTE]
did you just try to disprove god by using physics?
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Viper the Tiger;25902770]Your statement shows that your belief in Christianity does not come from logic, but from ignorance and indoctrination. Usually it is a lot more subtle, but your reason for belief fits the EXACT definition of ignorance and indoctrination.
1.)Ignorance- a state of being uninformed.
"It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known"
2.)Indoctrination- to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments
"I've gone to the same church since before I was even born every Sunday and Wednesday. It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known."[/QUOTE]
eehhmm, indoctrination and ignorance.
You do know that at one point of time in history almost every single person believed.
Do you call that indoctrination and especially ignorance?
[QUOTE=Extinct;25902780]did you just try to disprove god by using physics?[/QUOTE]
Physics disproves a lot of things, but remember, espicially in the case of black hole theories, physics gets really screwed up.
[QUOTE=Pascall;25902706]If you go around asking most Christians why they believe what they believe, a good majority of them will bring in the fact that they were raised believing so. It's not exactly their fault. [b]They have the full ability to draw out of that religion when they're old enough to know that a lot of the followers are flawed. Those that do, good for them choosing their own path. Those who don't, I applaud them for "sticking to their guns" so to speak[/b]. Neither path is any reason to hate on them unless they directly offend you by shoving a bible in your face or something equally obnoxious.
Which, I hope no one of religious background here does.[/QUOTE]
Why would you applaud ignorance?
[QUOTE=Extinct;25902780]did you just try to disprove god by using physics?[/QUOTE]
oh sorry i forgot god is beyond logic (that explains some of its some of itys followers)
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=vizard38;25902818]Physics disproves a lot of things, but remember, espicially in the case of black hole theories, physics gets really screwed up.[/QUOTE]
yea but its still physics, and its still going by rules
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902823]oh sorry i forgot god is beyond logic (that explains some of its some of itys followers)[/QUOTE]
So are black holes in a sense.
Religion isn't about logic though. Which is why most people say it's stupid. I'm not going to argue the fact that yeah, it sounds pretty crazy.
I don't see the fact that I was raised in a church as a bad thing. In fact, quite the opposite. It made me the person I am today. I'd like to think that I'm relatively balanced and an overall nice person. Of course, there are perfectly sane atheists out there, I'm not saying otherwise. But when people treat church-going children as being "brainwashed", it makes no sense. At my age, I am aware of what brainwashing is and I was not brainwashed. I have always been given the option to choose my own faith and yet I haven't strayed from what I've been taught.
I'm not ignorant to the laws of science and things of the like. I simply choose not to mix the two subjects of science and religion in my mind. I'm not going to be a scientist, nor do I plan on being a religious minister. My beliefs will forever be my own and while I will do my best to bring up my children in a decent environment, they too will always have the chance to choose their own faith as well.
My faith does not determine the truth to the world.
[QUOTE=vizard38;25902841]So are black holes in a sense.[/QUOTE]
We can detect black holes.
[QUOTE=Viper the Tiger;25902770]Your statement shows that your belief in Christianity does not come from logic, but from ignorance and indoctrination. Usually it is a lot more subtle, but your reason for belief fits the EXACT definition of ignorance and indoctrination.
1.)Ignorance- a state of being uninformed.
"It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known"
2.)Indoctrination- to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments
"I've gone to the same church since before I was even born every Sunday and Wednesday. It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known."[/QUOTE]
You're coming at this from the point of view that God not existing is plain fact, and that believing in God is ignorance.
I could just as easily flip it around.
Why? Because we don't know. As other's have so readily pointed out, God isn't a falsifiable conept, therefore a belief in God isn't a matter of ignorance.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902823]oh sorry i forgot god is beyond logic (that explains some of its some of itys followers)
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
God is indeed beyond logic.
heaven & hell, soul, the devil
They aren't logic if I'm correct
yea but its still physics, and its still going by rules[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Extinct;25902780]did you just try to disprove god by using physics?
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
eehhmm, indoctrination and ignorance.
You do know that at one point of time in history almost every single person believed.
Do you call that indoctrination and especially ignorance?[/QUOTE]
Um. Yes? There was a point where almost everyone believed. They were told since birth that there was a god watching them (indoctrination). They were also oblivious and hostile towards anything that would go against their beliefs, as we can see in the case of Galileo Galilei (ignorance). Nothing that you are saying is making any sense, and rating my comments dumb doesn't help.
[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;25902855]We can detect black holes.[/QUOTE]
I know that, espicially in the V404 case, but what I mean as in what happens within the black hole. From there its all speculation but its still in text books. We don't know what happens and its still believed as fact. Get my point?
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;25902864]You're coming at this from the point of view that God not existing is plain fact, and that believing in God is ignorance.
I could just as easily flip it around.
Why? Because we don't know. As other's have so readily pointed out, God isn't a falsifiable conept, therefore a belief in God isn't a matter of ignorance.[/QUOTE]
well if god does not have proof then believing in it is based on ignorance
Reading this thread really makes me sad.
Unicorns are real, and the sun ACTUALLY shines out of my arse! It's written in a book, so it must be true!
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;25902864]You're coming at this from the point of view that God not existing is plain fact, and that believing in God is ignorance.
I could just as easily flip it around.
Why? Because we don't know. As other's have so readily pointed out, God isn't a falsifiable conept, therefore a belief in God isn't a matter of ignorance.[/QUOTE]
This is not true. I'm not saying belief in god is ignorance. I'm referring to his statement "It's not something to easily get out of when it's really all you've ever known". If something is all he's ever known, he in uninformed, which is therefore ignorance.
Why can't we all just get along?
[QUOTE=Viper the Tiger;25902897]Um. Yes? There was a point where almost everyone believed. They were told since birth that there was a god watching them (indoctrination). They were also oblivious and hostile towards anything that would go against their beliefs, as we can see in the case of Galileo Galilei (ignorance). Nothing that you are saying is making any sense, and rating my comments dumb doesn't help.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that galileo galilei was indoctrinated at birth and was also ignorant.
You can't judge an entire civilisation because of what they follow/followed
[QUOTE=vizard38;25902901]I know that, espicially in the V404 case, but what I mean as in what happens within the black hole. From there its all speculation but its still in text books. We don't know what happens and its still believed as fact. Get my point?[/QUOTE]
well we know that it has high gravity, so it must crush things and we know that at high gravity time slows down, we dont star making things up like there is candy at the middle of it or that you must believe that there is candy in it
[QUOTE=Viper the Tiger;25902897]Um. Yes? There was a point where almost everyone believed. They were told since birth that there was a god watching them (indoctrination). They were also oblivious and hostile towards anything that would go against their beliefs, as we can see in the case of Galileo Galilei (ignorance). Nothing that you are saying is making any sense, and rating my comments dumb doesn't help.[/QUOTE]
But your initial claim is that atheism is the natural mode of thinking. That means at some time, no one would've believed in God.
Yet here you are saying there's a point when everyone believed. In order for people to have been indoctrinated, that means their parents must have believed as well.
If you claim that it's because their parents were indoctrinated, surely you must see the how this is circular logic?
[QUOTE=vizard38;25902951]Why can't we all just get along?[/QUOTE]
read virus of the mind and then you will see why
[editline]7th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;25902963]But your initial claim is that atheism is the natural mode of thinking. That means at some time, no one would've believed in God.
Yet here you are saying there's a point when everyone believed. In order for people to have been indoctrinated, that means their parents must have believed as well.
If you claim that it's because their parents were indoctrinated, surely you must see the how this is circular logic?[/QUOTE]
not its not he is saying that when you are born you do not believe in god, then he says that many people get told by there parents to believe in god so they do
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902961]well we know that it has high gravity, so it must crush things and we know that at high gravity time slows down, we dont star making things up like there is candy at the middle of it or that you must believe that there is candy in it[/QUOTE]
It's still speculation and mathmetical reasoning. We'll never know until it's proven. I'm not arguing with you just to let you know. Physically proven I mind you.
I agree, there is no point in swaying people to your side. But it's bulllshit to ask that beliefs have to be respected. I have every right to say your beliefs are fucking stupid and there is nothing you can do other than the exact same thing in return. More importantly bashing a religion is completely useless unless there are specific reasons, for example I don't think churches should be tax exempt and consider the people trying to put prayer and creationism in schools are a blight on society, if that makes me an antitheist fine.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25902907]well if god does not have proof then believing in it is based on ignorance[/QUOTE]
No
metaphor: I have never visited china and yet i know it exists.
Just because there is no proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I'm pretty sure "god's existance" isn't the kind of exist you think it is
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.