Communal Communism Thread: Everyone owns this shit - General

[QUOTE=Detective P;18900533]Communism has incentives, just as much as capitalism. In a communist society, you still would make money(in the transitional phase at least), you still would be rewarded for better behavior or work ethic than others, and those who didn't do shit simply wouldn't get the same as everyone else. Everyone assumes that in a communist society, people could get away with not doing jack shit because they'd get paid the same and treated the same regardless- this is simply wrong. In essence, this is socialism, but truly communism is only socialism until it's out of its transitional form, and by then the whole of the population's way of thinking will have changed to work well in a pure-communist state.[/QUOTE] communism is all dandy and fine until that last part. people cannot change as a whole, we are individuals, and we will always find ways to separate ourselves from one another. we cannot all think as a singular hive-mind to work under a preordained system, we carve our own niches in society and attempt to regulate ourselves to what we feel is right. doing things for yourself as opposed to the group as a whole is natural human instinct, and that alone can prevent socialism and communism from ever truly working on a bigger scale. [QUOTE=Trotsky;18900550]Workers democracy prevents that. Actually it's a way of separating people based on luck. You're acting like communism makes society poor, actually, its the opposite. and by the way, people are already working for survival in capitalism. In communism, they work for their society and self. In capitalism, they work for themselves and hope society don't fuck them over. Which it does most of the times. You're describing capitalism as if the only sucessful people are people who work. uhhhhhhhhhhhh, money is not real. its worth is based entirely on what people think it "values". And money is the root of all evil. It gives the illusion of success or worth and people take that as the gospel.[/QUOTE] you have your point on the first two, but i still disagree with them since i view communism as more so a survival mechanism for a group to better survive in an unstable environment, whereas capitalism is giving success to those who value their individuality and work towards a goal. communism can fuck over the entire group just as easily as capitalism can fuck over singular people. money is not the root of evil, it's the people who give them those values. if you said money was the root of evil due to what people think, individual thoughts are also corrupt. money, as you stated, does not exist, therefore, it cannot be evil, no?

Communism will be cool when it starts working off of just papper.

"When"? What exactly are you planning, child?

[QUOTE=Flitchaye;18900718]communism is all dandy and fine until that last part. people cannot change as a whole, we are individuals, and we will always find ways to separate ourselves from one another. we cannot all think as a singular hive-mind to work under a preordained system, we carve our own niches in society and attempt to regulate ourselves to what we feel is right. doing things for yourself as opposed to the group as a whole is natural human instinct, and that alone can prevent socialism and communism from ever truly working on a bigger scale.[/QUOTE] No. We've shown before that we can change our basis of society. In communism, the basis of society would be society itself. In capitalism, it has been the interest of the individual. In some societies, it was and still is the state or an individual (i.e. North Korea). In older times, people dedicated their lives to the church. Simply because it doesn't work in the Western World currently doesn't mean it never will.

[QUOTE=Detective P;18900890]No. We've shown before that we can change our basis of society. In communism, the basis of society would be society itself. In capitalism, it has been the interest of the individual. In some societies, it was and still is the state or an individual (i.e. North Korea). In older times, people dedicated their lives to the church. Simply because it doesn't work int he Western World doesn't mean it never will.[/QUOTE] capitalism is the interest of individual[b]s[/b] as opposed to an individual. capitalism can be just as much of a team effort as communism is, but no one has to conform to the group. a church is a good example, as you mentioned, of communal communism working properly. however, it can easily be corrupted into something that does the church no good in the long run. it's just that nowadays, individuality is such an important force in our lives that really, such ideas seem far-fetched now.

[QUOTE=cosmeticplague;18878723][img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2378897283_f799b3b3e0.jpg[/img] Anarcho-Syndicalism.[/QUOTE] Isn't that a contradiction?

[QUOTE=Flitchaye;18901012]capitalism is the interest of individual[b]s[/b] as opposed to an individual. capitalism can be just as much of a team effort as communism is, but no one has to conform to the group. a church is a good example, as you mentioned, of communal communism working properly. however, it can easily be corrupted into something that does the church no good in the long run. it's just that nowadays, individuality is such an important force in our lives that really, such ideas seem far-fetched now.[/QUOTE] A capitalist's goal is to create capital for himself or the things that benefit him. A communist's goal is to benefit not only himself, but everyone else. If anything, one would have to conform to a group in capitalism. To be successful, you have to keep conforming to new groups, to new standards, to new expectations brought about by other capitalists doing the same. In communism, just because you can't keep up due to no fault of your own, you won't be left behind. Where's Conscript when you need him? He can explain this better than I can.

[QUOTE=Bean-O;18901178]Isn't that a contradiction?[/QUOTE] not really. anarcho-syndicalism has similar goals of workers' democracy though a council of trade unions, but that's where the similarities end. it wants to abolish the state from the get-go and move to a classless society in one fell swoop. [QUOTE=Detective P;18901267] Where's Conscript when you need him? He can explain this better than I can.[/QUOTE] you called?

We can all agree on one thing. The USSR had the worlds most kick ass national anthem. That's why Russia adopted it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Raafdzxns[/media] I mean FUCK!

Trotsky are you like really poor, cause the more of you posts I read the more I get the impression you live in a ditch and every day some guy in a hummer drives by and splashes mud in it.

[QUOTE=Detective P;18901267]A capitalist's goal is to create capital for himself or the things that benefit him. A communist's goal is to benefit not only himself, but everyone else. If anything, one would have to conform to a group in capitalism. To be successful, you have to keep conforming to new groups, to new standards, to new expectations brought about by other capitalists doing the same. In communism, just because you can't keep up due to no fault of your own, you won't be left behind. Where's Conscript when you need him? He can explain this better than I can.[/QUOTE] except you don't necessarily need to conform to any groups in capitalism. they can work in groups to benefit each other, or not. capitalism brings out more individuality in us, and allows us to better achieve our desires than communism can. i'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with working for the group, but the most foremost thing one must do is to care for oneself. in other words, capitalism promotes more competition, which allows us to more easily gauge our motivations and desires with or against each other, and if you do get left behind, there isn't anything stopping you from getting back up. you can lie there or you get back up, be it alone or with others. the simplest way i can put is that communism (communal in this case) gives people a crutch at the cost of the entire group having to slow down, but in capitalism, you can choose to use or not use that crutch, and you may or may not be better off with or without it. really, on a mass scale, nobody wants to slow down for someone who brings down the group. so technically, you are right that capitalism can be unforgiving, but it's also much more progressive for individuals than communism can be.

[QUOTE=Conscript;18901412] you called?[/QUOTE] Ya. Start winning arguments for me since I'm not as knowledgeable and have stuff to do. [editline]03:48AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Flitchaye;18901529]except you don't necessarily need to conform to any groups in capitalism. they can work in groups to benefit each other, or not. capitalism brings out more individuality in us, and allows us to better achieve our desires than communism can. i'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with working for the group, but the most foremost thing one must do is to care for oneself. in other words, capitalism promotes more competition, which allows us to more easily gauge our motivations and desires with or against each other, and if you do get left behind, there isn't anything stopping you from getting back up. you can lie there or you get back up, be it alone or with others. the simplest way i can put is that communism (communal in this case) gives people a crutch at the cost of the entire group having to slow down, but in capitalism, you can choose to use or not use that crutch, and you may or may not be better off with or without it. really, on a mass scale, nobody wants to slow down for someone who brings down the group. so technically, you are right that capitalism can be unforgiving, but it's also much more progressive for individuals than communism can be.[/QUOTE] Touche.

[QUOTE=Conscript;18901412]not really. anarcho-syndicalism has similar goals of workers' democracy though a council of trade unions, but that's where the similarities end. it wants to abolish the state from the get-go and move to a classless society in one fell swoop.[/QUOTE] Ah, so you're talking about "Rai". The carrot at the end of the stick that the state waived in front of everyone to make them imagine that they weren't getting abused.

you lost me bean. also detective p i would but im done arguing for today. the finn in that one thread gave me a headache (that's probably the comedown from the weed though)

[QUOTE=Flitchaye;18900718]communism is all dandy and fine until that last part. people cannot change as a whole, we are individuals, and we will always find ways to separate ourselves from one another. we cannot all think as a singular hive-mind to work under a preordained system, we carve our own niches in society and attempt to regulate ourselves to what we feel is right. doing things for yourself as opposed to the group as a whole is natural human instinct, and that alone can prevent socialism and communism from ever truly working on a bigger scale. you have your point on the first two, but i still disagree with them since i view communism as more so a survival mechanism for a group to better survive in an unstable environment, whereas capitalism is giving success to those who value their individuality and work towards a goal. communism can fuck over the entire group just as easily as capitalism can fuck over singular people. money is not the root of evil, it's the people who give them those values. if you said money was the root of evil due to what people think, individual thoughts are also corrupt. money, as you stated, does not exist, therefore, it cannot be evil, no?[/QUOTE] I REALLY don't see how communism is a survival mechanism. That's ideally. But in reality, only a few people ever get their goal. I have no say over what money values, neither does most of the population. You can't blame everyone because of the few. [editline]05:42AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Novistador;18901454]Trotsky are you like really poor, cause the more of you posts I read the more I get the impression you live in a ditch and every day some guy in a hummer drives by and splashes mud in it.[/QUOTE] I'm below the poverty line.

lol that's funny

People who support communism need to stop idolizing the ones who made everybody think it was fucking evil to begin with, however they do serve as examples as to why communism will never work outside of an already ideal society. I don't think anyone should support either side anyway as something in the middle of the road is without question more effective.

[QUOTE=CommieTurtle;18903126]People who support communism need to stop idolizing the ones who made everybody think it was fucking evil to begin with, however they do serve as examples as to why communism will never work outside of an already ideal society. I don't think anyone should support either side anyway as something in the middle of the road is without question more effective.[/QUOTE] I do not.

Communism is bad.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;18903339]Communism is bad.[/QUOTE] not really

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18903312]I do not.[/QUOTE] Then you should only become defensive if I were to insult Marx and Engels should you not?

[QUOTE=CommieTurtle;18904085]Then you should only become defensive if I were to insult Marx and Engels should you not?[/QUOTE] um ok?

[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;18883812]When people don't starve so that you can have an iPod.[/QUOTE] So we should divert all funds from cancer research straight to helping everyone even if they could actually work. Yes there are hobos, but there are also people who just don't bother working and get benefits. Also stop being a hypocrite you probably have an ipod and you better be using windows 95 with netscape and 8mb ram, or you're also taking away from the poor or whatever

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18904229]um ok?[/QUOTE] Begone, traitor.

[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;18894725]Clearly we arn't going to have world-wide communism any time soon. And perhaps you can ask the people in somalia about the benefits they recieve?[/QUOTE] Because me paying money to buy bread is directly related to Somalians being unable to sort themselves out. [editline]12:04PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Trotsky;18899671]or in communes.[/QUOTE] Yeah let's shut ourselves in away from the rest of the world. For society! [editline]12:04PM[/editline] There's this kid in Year 9 and he says he's a Maoist. I was like what the fuck you stupid kid that's like the worst of the worst.

[QUOTE=Earthen;18909062]So we should divert all funds from cancer research straight to helping everyone even if they could actually work. Yes there are hobos, but there are also people who just don't bother working and get benefits. Also stop being a hypocrite you probably have an ipod and you better be using windows 95 with netscape and 8mb ram, or you're also taking away from the poor or whatever[/QUOTE] Cancer research has nothing to do with people in the "developed" world living off the sweat of underpaid workers who are essentially slaves. Cuban doctors are at the forefront of medical research and are therefore contributing to a cure for cancer, more so than a lot of capitalist countries I don't have an iPod and I don't own the computer but since it's in my house I might as well use it. [QUOTE=lazyguy;18909413]Because me paying money to buy bread is directly related to Somalians being unable to sort themselves out. [/QUOTE] What? You said people who are starving get benefits, I was pointing out the fact that most of them don't. [QUOTE=lazyguy;18909413] There's this kid in Year 9 and he says he's a Maoist. I was like what the fuck you stupid kid that's like the worst of the worst.[/QUOTE] I agree, punch him in the face repeatedly.

[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;18909882]What? You said people who are starving get benefits, I was pointing out the fact that most of them don't.[/quote] That was someone else.[quote]I agree, punch him in the face repeatedly.[/QUOTE] [img]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile2/1815/44/q1358100437_28586.jpg[/img]:respek:[img]http://img.freebase.com/api/trans/image_thumb/en/keir_hardie?pad=1&maxheight=64&mode=fillcropmid&maxwidth=64[/img]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18892405]Keyboard warrior^ [editline]10:56PM[/editline] No, because it's not...[/QUOTE] like that one guy said extremes don't work... also this whole keyboard warrior thing is bullshit, im not boasting or gloating, im just saying the communist kids usually got beat on, not by one person, but by the entire grade... [editline]02:05PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Trotsky;18899869]uh, it's already being used... yet it can't work? what? and capitalism is not in anyway good. [editline]03:38AM[/editline] Stalin was not a communist [editline]03:38AM[/editline] And I don't see how communism implies people have to be computers.[/QUOTE] explain why capitalism is bad? [editline]02:09PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Flitchaye;18901529]except you don't necessarily need to conform to any groups in capitalism. they can work in groups to benefit each other, or not. capitalism brings out more individuality in us, and allows us to better achieve our desires than communism can. i'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with working for the group, but the most foremost thing one must do is to care for oneself. in other words, capitalism promotes more competition, which allows us to more easily gauge our motivations and desires with or against each other, and if you do get left behind, there isn't anything stopping you from getting back up. you can lie there or you get back up, be it alone or with others. the simplest way i can put is that communism (communal in this case) gives people a crutch at the cost of the entire group having to slow down, but in capitalism, you can choose to use or not use that crutch, and you may or may not be better off with or without it. really, on a mass scale, nobody wants to slow down for someone who brings down the group. so technically, you are right that capitalism can be unforgiving, but it's also much more progressive for individuals than communism can be.[/QUOTE] this is the best argument ever for capitalism, i think you should get an award or some shit, for making a valid argument.

I like Democratic Socialism.

[QUOTE=Earthen;18911234] this is the best argument ever for capitalism, i think you should get an award or some shit, for making a valid argument.[/QUOTE] When you agree with someone's point it's a valid argument? But not when you disagree? Millions of deaths from starvation is better than extra individuality for the lucky few?