[QUOTE=Kybalt;17967861]Karma is a silly concept. Everyone knows Karma doesn't exist, it's quite evident, there are many people who committed great evil and didn't get a just punishment. Hitler is a good example, caused genocide and got away with a quick suicide (apparently).[/QUOTE]
you mistake "believe in karma" for me being a steadfast believer in the lore of the subject. no.
I believe in the prospect of karma because each good deed generally has a reward. For instance, a few weeks ago, I found a laptop on a park bench. I picked it up, and the people around me asked what I was going to do with it. They asked if I was going to keep it. I said jokingly "fuck no, it's a mac hahah" and they asked "so can I have it?"
I said fuck no what the fuck is wrong with you, I'm going to return it. Guys said "wow you're one of those [I]good[/I] kids." I replied "there's a big difference between being a good kid and simply not being a prick"
so I went into the laptop and got the dude's contact info, called him up, and dropped his laptop at a local office. Got on fb when I got home, and he'd added me. Said that he's got a place in nyc that he'd let me chill at if I ever was in deep shit, or would grab me some booze if I needed it etc etc. So not being a dick paid off, and you get to feel like you're a benefit to society when you're not a prick
plus the fact I'd like to think that there would be more people in the world who would do what I did
if you're a good person that will increase peoples' disposition towards you, if you're a prick, why would they give two shits about you etcetcetcetcetc
so I don't dictate my actions based on karma - I would like to think that when I do something nice for someone, someone else will do something nice for me. I just generally don't act like a prat, it's quite rewarding tbh
[QUOTE=BricknHead;17968134]you mistake "believe in karma" for me being a steadfast believer in the lore of the subject. no.
I believe in the prospect of karma because [B]each good deed generally has a reward[/B]. For instance, a few weeks ago, I found a laptop on a park bench. I picked it up, and the people around me asked what I was going to do with it. They asked if I was going to keep it. I said jokingly "fuck no, it's a mac hahah" and they asked "so can I have it?"
I said fuck no what the fuck is wrong with you, I'm going to return it. Guys said "wow you're one of those [I]good[/I] kids." I replied "there's a big difference between being a good kid and simply not being a prick"
so I went into the laptop and got the dude's contact info, called him up, and dropped his laptop at a local office. Got on fb when I got home, and he'd added me. Said that he's got a place in nyc that he'd let me chill at if I ever was in deep shit, or would grab me some booze if I needed it etc etc. So not being a dick paid off, and you get to feel like you're a benefit to society when you're not a prick
plus the fact I'd like to think that there would be more people in the world who would do what I did
if you're a good person that will increase peoples' disposition towards you, if you're a prick, why would they give two shits about you etcetcetcetcetc[/QUOTE]
But this can be explained evolutionarily. Good deeds give a reward because people recognize them and evolutionarily feel an impulse to reward the person (I'm being pretty general, this does depend on a persons genetics and their lives.) so that faced in the same position, they would want a reward. Something like charity is not for the sake of others. You feel a good feeling because you would have wanted your laptop returned to you too. It's really biological.
[editline]10:44PM[/editline]
I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just saying it has a perfectly logical explanation, so you don't have to say oh well karma did it. Really people like you are great.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17967590]Yeah guys fuck sharing of ideas and knowledge lets all just believe our own misguided views of the universe and stuff. Hell yeah, you know terrorists, you can just keep flying planes into buildings, we can't infringe on your right to believe.
I don't like it when people that have power make decisions based on imaginary and misguided views of the world around them. Terrorists clearly have power to end lives, and I don't want them ending mine just because someone never explained a little critical thinking to them.[/QUOTE]
I meant all the name calling and shit throwing. We are fucking apes for fucks sakes, this is all speculation, either side could be right ultimately. Sure what we think we know so far says otherwise but all out saying No your wrong and stupid is getting nowhere.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17968168]I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just saying it has a perfectly logical explanation, so you don't have to say oh well karma did it.[/QUOTE]
when did I say that I do
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968189]I meant all the name calling and shit throwing. We are fucking [B]apes [/B]for fucks sakes, this is all speculation, either side could be right ultimately. Sure what we think we know so far says otherwise but all out saying No your wrong and stupid is getting nowhere.[/QUOTE]
Homo sapiens more specifically. While either side could be right, non existence is the logical side to side with until further evidence. Why can't you understand this?
[editline]10:46PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BricknHead;17968191]when did I say that I do[/QUOTE]
Then why call it karma.
it's an extremely simple concept that is most easily related to the word and beliefs behind karma
[QUOTE=BricknHead;17968248]it's an extremely simple concept that is most easily related to the word and beliefs behind karma[/QUOTE]
Works for me.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17968256]Works for me.[/QUOTE]
coo.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17968209]Homo sapiens more specifically. While either side could be right, non existence is the logical side to side with until further evidence. Why can't you understand this?
[editline]10:46PM[/editline]
Then why call it karma.[/QUOTE]
I understand that.
I am saying that although illogical some hold beliefs that go against logic yet still can be beneficial in certain circumstances. I agree that organized religion can be a brutal, horrible, and above all corrupted perversion. But what I am saying is that fair enough, you don't believe in "God" ,whatever that may mean to whoever, but some people do and it is not logic that made them think this way, it is faith and often a belief in good. I am saying do not condemn theists as illogical idiots, but rather accept them as advocates of a different [b]belief[/b], much like string theory versus atomic theory. On a final note a believer in the ways of science does not constitute an immediate disbelief in theistic theories, many quantum physicists believe in a god for the way that consciousness affects probability, as well as the many seemingly loops in logic that pepper the inner understandings of this thing we call "Life" the way we as a species see it.
[QUOTE=Giner;17968025]I think logically in the areas I need to, I've had experiences that would lead me to believe partly in life after death, I believe what I do, because I can, i'm human not a fucking robot.[/QUOTE]
The fact that you're a human doesn't mean you reserve the right to be a complete idiot. If everyone had your attitude, we would still be in the dark ages.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968334]I understand that.
I am saying that although illogical some hold beliefs that go against logic yet still can be beneficial in certain circumstances. I agree that organized religion can be a brutal, horrible, and above all corrupted perversion. But what I am saying is that fair enough, you don't believe in "God" ,whatever that may mean to whoever, but some people do and it is not logic that made them think this way, it is faith and often a belief in good. I am saying do not condemn theists as illogical idiots, but rather accept them as advocates of a different [b]belief[/b], much like string theory versus atomic theory. On a final note a believer in the ways of science does not constitute an immediate disbelief in theistic theories, [B]many quantum physicists believe in a god for the way the consciousness affects probability[/B], as well as the many seemingly loops in logic that pepper the inner understandings of this thing we call "Life" as we as a species see it.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that atomic theory and string theory are both logical and have evidence supporting them that can be tested. They are currently two competing theories, but eventually one is going to be proven wrong or something. I've said it before and ill type it again. It is illogical to believe in a god without any evidence to support the existence of one.
Appeal to authority logical fallacy.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17968397]The problem is that atomic theory and string theory are both logical and have evidence supporting them that can be tested. They are currently two competing theories, but eventually one is going to be proven wrong or something. I've said it before and ill type it again. It is illogical to believe in a god without any evidence to support the existence of one.
Appeal to authority logical fallacy.[/QUOTE]
String theory cannot be tested yet. It's purely theoretical thus far.
I addressed that and understand that you do not agree with theistic beliefs on a basis of logic. And I [b]respect[/b] that. If in a discussion to convince another you put your basis of thinking on the table as your fact. The one whom you are trying to convince takes that newly gotten information and makes a personal decision based on his [b]belief[/b] and then says if he agrees or not. If he agrees then your goal is achieved if not then unless further information that differs from that you already stated still exists, say it. If no further information to back your side is available to your disposition then you must accept the fact that that does not agree, but respectfully disagrees. It would be unfair of me to say that all conversations go in this fashion of respect, and many theists and atheists alike often tread up on grounds of rudeness. I personally chose to uphold this in favor of my value system. I understand that logically there is no evidence to prove or disprove god, and I am not saying I am divinely right. I am just saying I disagree, wrong or right.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968552]:words:[/QUOTE]
You should really invest in an enter button.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;17968533]String theory cannot be tested yet. It's purely theoretical thus far.[/QUOTE]
Alrighty, will try to remember this.
[editline]11:10PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968552]I addressed that and understand that you do not agree with theistic beliefs on a basis of logic. And I [b]respect[/b] that. If in a discussion to convince another you put your basis of thinking on the table as your fact. The one whom you are trying to convince takes that newly gotten information and makes a personal decision based on his [b]belief[/b] and then says if he agrees or not. If he agrees then your goal is achieved if not then unless further information that differs from that you already stated still exists, say it. If no further information to back your side is available to your disposition then you must accept the fact that that does not agree, but respectfully disagrees. It would be unfair of me to say that all conversations go in this fashion of respect, and many theists and atheists alike often tread up on grounds of rudeness. I personally chose to uphold this in favor of my value system. I understand that logically there is no evidence to prove or disprove god, and I am not saying I am divinely right. [B]I am just saying I disagree, wrong or right.[/B][/QUOTE]
Willfull ignorance. Anyway, two hours of religious discussion is enough for me. I'm going to go play Diablo 2 now.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17968574]Alrighty, will try to remember this.
[editline]11:10PM[/editline]
Willfull ignorance. Anyway, two hours of religious discussion is enough for me. I'm going to go play Diablo 2 now.[/QUOTE]
Well you blindly say that your way is somehow the ultimate truth and past that no possibilities exist. Had you said willful faith or even blind faith I would have kept more respect for you. Alas civility is not the strong point of some.
[b]Edit:[/b]
The does not mean I am denouncing the possibility of you being wrong nor me being right. In fact I believe i am wrong in the sense that i am not nor will i ever be 100% right. I hope for you that you may at least accept that.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968786]Well you blindly say that your way is somehow the ultimate truth and past that not possibilities exist. Had you said willful faith or even blind faith I would have kept more respect for you. Alas civility is not the strong point of some.[/quote]
Blindly? Not so much, I think. Science has real, concrete results to show for it. When something has real testable, usable results, it's a pretty good indicator that it's on the right track for truth.
You're right, do a degree, though. Nothing can deliver "ultimate truth". Science can merely deliver the next best thing.
What, however, does faith have to show for itself?
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17968786][b]Edit:[/b]
The does not mean I am denouncing the possibility of you being wrong nor me being right. In fact I believe i am wrong in the sense that i am not nor will i ever be 100% right. I hope for you that you may at least accept that.[/QUOTE]
Right, nothing will ever be 100% right. But science is a whole lot closer to it than faith.
[QUOTE=Doriol;17968392]The fact that you're a human doesn't mean you reserve the right to be a complete idiot. If everyone had your attitude, we would still be in the dark ages.[/QUOTE]
Why would we be still be in the dark ages? I believe in Science too, I don't understand your reasoning behind your bogus argument?
And science is young in itself. I myself adamantly follow the latest discoveries in science and strongly believe in its theories and values. However due to the fact there is no evidence disproving and no evidence proving god. Should such an information arise out of the minds of our great thinkers then I will accept it. I believe that in this way I am not hurting myself nor am I actively trying to convince others of my theistic belief. I may note that I am not actually christian or anything mainstream. I am rather just a theist in its own sense and if to be labeled I would call myself a universalist.
But thanks deutsch for being respectful in your response.
As for your question about what faith has to show for itself; Nothing really.
I agree that wars have arisen from faith and dogma coupled with interpretation often is the cause of this.
But religion in itself has done great things for humanitarianism. I believe that the concepts (Not literal dogma) of things like love thy neighbor and thou shalt not steal and the like are more beneficial than negative. Perhaps the theistic part of religion is wrong, and I still leave that as a possibility, but I personally have faith in MY belief as apposed to what dogma passed on from thousands of years ago says. Yes I know these are from Christianity, however if you study most other main stream theistic religions you will see that the concepts behind these values are repetitive, as is the basic story of some religions. (I recognize Buddhism is not necessarily a theistic religion but it upholds certain values all the same) Religion is not perfect, neither is science.
[QUOTE=Giner;17969099]Why would we be still be in the dark ages? I believe in Science too, I don't understand your reasoning behind your bogus argument?[/QUOTE]
You believe in outrageous things without evidence. If people ask for evidence of your claims or debunk them, you call them closed-minded robots.
You're the kid in school who believes in ghosts and spiritual shit. No one likes you. You're stupid.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17969103]And science is young in itself. I myself adamantly follow the latest discoveries in science and strongly believe in its theories and values. However due to the fact there is no evidence disproving and no evidence proving god. Should such an information arise out of the minds of our great thinkers then I will accept it. I believe that in this way I am not hurting myself nor am I actively trying to convince others of my theistic belief. I may note that I am not actually christian or anything mainstream. I am rather just a theist in its own sense and if to be labeled I would call myself a universalist.
But thanks deutsch for being respectful in your response.
As for your question about what faith has to show for itself; Nothing really.
I agree that wars have arisen from faith and dogma coupled with interpretation often is the cause of this.
But religion in itself has done great things for humanitarianism. I believe that the concepts (Not literal dogma) of things like [B]love thy neighbor and thou shalt not steal[/B] and the like are more beneficial than negative. Perhaps the theistic part of religion is wrong, and I still leave that as a possibility, but I personally have faith in MY belief as apposed to what dogma passed on from thousands of years ago says. Yes I know these are from Christianity, however if you study most other main stream theistic religions you will see that the concepts behind these values are repetitive, as is the basic story of some religions. (I recognize Buddhism is not necessarily a theistic religion but it upholds certain values all the same) Religion is not perfect, neither is science.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me but that was around long before religion and long before Christianity. The reasoning for this is evolutionary, not theistic or abstract too. We evolved to be tribal, we evolved to not steal and not kill each other unless due cause arises because stealing each others food and killing each other, well, a tribe wont survive for long like that.
[QUOTE=Giner;17957876]So i'm not religious or anything, I don't believe in God and have considered myself an Atheist for a while now, but now thinking about it, I do believe in the paranormal, whilst some would consider that to believe in something religious as without some form of religion, people wouldn't believe in life after death.
Now this is where I am confused, am I still an atheist for not believing there is a higher being or something else because I believe in ghosts? Is that contradicting for an Atheist, to believe that we could live in on some form or another, but believe that there is no higher being?
Is there a term for this?[/QUOTE]
You are wrong.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17969312]Excuse me but that was around long before religion and long before Christianity.[/QUOTE]
Some people still believe that morality comes from the Holy Bible.
Haha...
"Holy" bible.
[QUOTE=waxrock;17969378]Haha...
"Holy" bible.[/QUOTE]
that's what it's called
[QUOTE=Kybalt;17969312]Excuse me but that was around long before religion and long before Christianity. The reasoning for this is evolutionary, not theistic or abstract too. We evolved to be tribal, we evolved to not steal and not kill each other unless due cause arises because stealing each others food and killing each other, well, a tribe wont survive for long like that.[/QUOTE]
I understand that you have a belief in a human's natural tendency to be good due to logic and reasoning. However religion has existed since the dawn of human consciousness. Lightning struck and people thought it was the gods. Morals underwent co-evolution under reason and belief. "Thine god is a vengeful one".
Either way today religion promotes good values, the extremes people take them to are often exaggerated and end in violence. This is the flaw of man, one takes differences in human belief as a threat to him or what he believes. Either way let me say that religion also plays a part in culture which is something that distinguishes us from neolithic human ancestors. I agree science is also one of these differences.
Anyways I can see you oppose religion in its very essence and that no good can come of it, a fair opinion however I disagree.
[QUOTE=Doriol;17969385]that's what it's called[/QUOTE]
Your story is full of holes... :downs:
[QUOTE=Doriol;17969326]Some people still believe that morality comes from the Holy Bible.[/QUOTE]
Morality is a human trait, however humans who had this trait wrote things (not only the bible) to summarize their beliefs. Gravity does not come from science as it existed before, however science embodied it as a concept and helped us better hone our theories towards what we perceive as the "truth". The flaw in religion is that it is not progressive, and is why I believe it will slowly die over decades.
Either way, do not take any of this as if I am saying it as ultimately accurate as to what really happened, but this is how I interpreted it.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;17969578]Gravity does not come from science as it existed before[/QUOTE]
that makes no sense at all
[QUOTE=Doriol;17969597]that makes no sense at all[/QUOTE]
It pre-existed as a force, yet was not embodied until people observed it and wrote hypotheses about it.
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