[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]Oh wait, I guess you only know about guns based on your video game knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. I don't know why you'd make this asinine assumption. I listed the first few widely-used HK guns that came to mind.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]Lets start with the G3. It's manufacturing and action (stamped sheetmetal) look like it should be a super cheap gun to arm 3rd world countries with massive amounts of cheap shitty guns, but instead they try to use it to compete with the FN FAL. Quite laughable actually. It's a terribly inaccurate jamtastic fail gun. Oh also the receiver likes to crack in half. [/QUOTE]
I've fired both the FAL and G3 and seen no difference in accuracy, but the G3 is much easier to control when firing on automatic. Both have 4 turns in the barrel, and similar barrel lengths and manufacturing, so there's no reason why one should be radically more accurate. As for 'jamtastic', I guess you've never had the wonderful experience of trying to adjust the gas system on the FAL to find a setting that won't either jam due to being too weak or damage the internals due to being too rough. I never had such trouble with a G3. They're very, very similar guns- so I have no idea where you're getting this idea that the G3 is absolutely worse in every respect.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]The PSG is based on the G3, and requires assloads of fine machining work to make a pretty decent DMR. Oh also all that fine machining work makes it cost $10k. [/QUOTE]
The PSG has .75MOA accuracy, pretty good for a DMR. As for reliability, it's sure better than a Springfield like the M14. Not to mention the PSG incorporates a number of modern, useful features like a recoil buffer that dampens recoil to allow much more rapid target re-acquisition. It may not be leaps and bounds ahead of simpler, cheaper DMRs, but it has the capabilities that its cost reflects.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]The MP5 is essentially a scaled down G3. Also it's receiver likes to crack as well.[/QUOTE]
I can't comment on the MP5, as it's one weapon I haven't had the chance to fire significantly, but I know it's been chosen for its performance over other submachine guns repeatedly. The SWAT team I know has their choice of equipment, they don't pick MP5s because they're locked into government contracts.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]The G36 is an ar18 clone, just lacking the parts that made the ar-18 good and more plastic. Also sometimes it melts. Also costs way more than the ar-18. [/QUOTE]
A [I]modernized[/I] AR18 clone. You know, a US agency actually employs the G36C- the United States Capitol Police, the agency responsible for protecting members of Congress. And again, high cost does not equal bad, just overpriced.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30709325]HK has very good lobbyists working for them that get them lots of contracts. Just because they get a contract to arm somebody does not make them good. A few of their handguns have turned out very well though. Overall, Heckle my Kock is the worst major gun manufacture around right now. Even norinco turns out a better higher quality product than HK.[/QUOTE]
HK isn't exactly the only company to have breakable guns, nor are they the only company to have expensive ones. From a strictly factual standpoint, their weapons are used by agencies that have free choice of equipment, and some weapons, like the MP7, have been proven successful in the field. If you want to talk about companies putting out bad products, start with Taurus, Jennings, Hi-Point, Smith & Wesson, and the venerable Colt.
That post just further proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
I like Winchester.
I am a hunter.
woooo.
You can get sub MOA accuracy with a good AR, Noveske ARs run around 2200$ and shoot sub MOA all day long(even out of the 10.5 inch barrels) while weighing close to half what the PSG-1 weighs. Frankly, the PSG-1 is the product of a bygone era. You no longer need to strap tons of metal to a gun to make it accurate.
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30710522]That post just further proves you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
...Well, whatever. I mean, really, if you're going to act conceited, you should at least provide some factual evidence- any at all. Since you've offered nothing but your own personal opinion, I'm going to defer to the experience and weapon selection of my local SWAT team, the USCP, and the freaking Navy Seals as proof that you are wrong. If you can't be bothered to drop the condescending bullshit with me, take it up with them.
I really don't think you're a bad guy, and I don't think you're an idiot or unfamiliar with firearms (and you've certainly shown you know your stuff about airsoft), but dismissive replies without substance really grate with me. I'm not some CoD fanboy arguing the Barrett is best snipar evar, I've had ample experience with guns and the people who use them and your opinion is a totally new one to me.
[editline]26th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=iFail;30713277]You can get sub MOA accuracy with a good AR, Noveske ARs run around 2200$ and shoot sub MOA all day long(even out of the 10.5 inch barrels) while weighing close to half what the PSG-1 weighs. Frankly, the PSG-1 is the product of a bygone era. You no longer need to strap tons of metal to a gun to make it accurate.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind it's also forty years old, but at the same time utilizes a much larger (and longer-ranged) round than contemporary ARs.
Note that weapon purchases by SWAT teams and the like tend to be heavily influenced by the people who work out of desks, not the end user. Also, the Navy Seals tend to become a test bed for new shit anyway, they use lots of guns.
[QUOTE=iFail;30713417]Note that weapon purchases by SWAT teams and the like tend to be heavily influenced by the people who work out of desks, not the end user.[/QUOTE]
The guys I know pick their guns personally, they're given a stipend to work around. I know a number of them use MP5s.
[QUOTE=catbarf;30713278]...Well, whatever. I mean, really, if you're going to act conceited, you should at least provide some factual evidence- any at all. Since you've offered nothing but your own personal opinion, I'm going to defer to the experience and weapon selection of my local SWAT team, the USCP, and the freaking Navy Seals as proof that you are wrong. If you can't be bothered to drop the condescending bullshit with me, take it up with them.
[editline]26th June 2011[/editline]
Keep in mind it's also forty years old, but at the same time utilizes a much larger (and longer-ranged) round than contemporary ARs.[/QUOTE]
Oh god the stupid is just overwhelming.
The parts that make you look like an idiot are:
[quote]Both have 4 turns in the barrel, and similar barrel lengths and manufacturing, so there's no reason why one should be radically more accurate.[/quote]
The G3 uses a roller delayed blowback action. It's a action that works perfectly fine in a handgun. Absofuckinglutly terrible in a rifle. The part where you compare the two guns based on their BARREL LENGTH is hilarious. And saying "It has 4 turns". It's called twist ratio buddy. Learn it.
Also, adjustable gas systems are amazing. If you cant figure it out, well you're probably too stupid to be trusted with firearms anyways. They allow you to shoot a much wider range of cartridges, and even rifle grenades. As they've gone out of style you dont see the adjustable systems as much, but I own a PSL, and that thing is almost useless without an adjustable gas system.
[quote]The PSG has .75MOA accuracy, pretty good for a DMR.[/quote]
You can get that from an M1A1 for much cheaper and reliability.
[quote]As for reliability, it's sure better than a Springfield like the M14.[/quote]
Oh wow. All your knowledge comes from videogames at this point. I hate using this argument because it's stupid but I'll do it for the irony. [I]The US Navy SEALS use an M1A1. [/I]There's a reason for it. It's reliable.
As for the rest of your drivel about the psg, there are many many guns who's performance are much much better than the psg but dont have the retarded HK pricetag.
[quote]A [I]modernized[/I] AR18 clone. You know, a US agency actually employs the G36C- the United States Capitol Police, the agency responsible for protecting members of Congress. And again, high cost does not equal bad, just overpriced.[/quote]
And you use the "XYZ uses it so it must be good" argument. You know the British armed forces are pretty damn good right? Yet they use one of the worst modern assault rifles ever made. Except for the SAS, they use the M4 whenever possible.
Also about it being a modernized ar-18 clone. Yeah, it's modernized. If by modernized you mean remove several vital systems from the design as to not infringe on the patents and reduce the manufacturing costs while driving up the price at the same time, then yes, it's modernized. You look at the shiny plastic they've put it in and go "OH MY GOD ITS AMAZING" when internally it's terrible.
[quote]HK isn't exactly the only company to have breakable guns, nor are they the only company to have expensive ones. From a strictly factual standpoint, their weapons are used by agencies that have free choice of equipment, and some weapons, like the MP7, have been proven successful in the field. If you want to talk about companies putting out bad products, start with Taurus, Jennings, Hi-Point, Smith & Wesson, and the venerable Colt. [/quote]
Companies like jennings, and S&W dont clone crap and charge 10 times more for it. Colt is a perfectly fine company, and to use your (now becoming very ironic) argument, [I]they supply the US military, that includes your precious navy seals.[/I]Hi-point is CHEAP. That's their selling point. They sell concealable handguns you can literally throw away. Nobody expects any form of quality from them, yet every one of their guns has a life time warranty. It breaks and they give you a new one. HK gives a big fuck you to the consumer.
Taurus is Brazilian pot metal and everybody knows that.
Also your local swat team uses mp5s because they're fucking cheap. One of the few cheap products from HK. They work fine for what they do. It's only 9mm. But they're practically disposable, made with cheap stamped sheet metal. This is ok with some bigger budget agencies that can just throw away the bad guns, and chances are your swat team bought them because "ZOMG DELTA FORCE USES THEM" where the difference is SFOD literally buys warehouses full of guns and ammunition to train with and your local "swat" is just some pig who sucked his superior's dick enough to get the promotion. Swat means nothing. I've outshot local "swat" at a local range many cops shoot at. Never went back because of the terrible range safety.
So yeah you're an idiot.
Internet Drama best stuff to read while eating popcorn.
i learned stuff today
[QUOTE=Aznsniper911;30714285]Internet Drama best stuff to read while eating popcorn.[/QUOTE]
And now I wait for his butthurt reply
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zj8S6.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30713947]Oh god the stupid is just overwhelming.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you're dumb or oblivious, and I really think you're an alright guy and you've helped me out before so I'm a little disappointed by the venom in your posts, but this stuff really isn't important enough to RAEG over. Especially since this started as a comment that HK guns are all shit, and now we're throwing in qualifiers like 'but their pistols are alright' and 'well the MP5 is okay because it works fine and is cheap' so it's gotten away from the original point entirely, which was that a blanket statement is silly. The point is made. So if that's enough butthurt for you, I think we're done, and congrats:
[IMG]http://ui08.gamespot.com/679/winner2_2.png[/IMG]
You're both awesome.
im gay
[QUOTE=catbarf;30721149] so I'm a little disappointed by the venom in your posts, but..[/QUOTE]
wtf i wasn't even here for this
[QUOTE=Jat Goodwin;30713947]Oh god the stupid is just overwhelming.
So yeah you're an idiot.[/QUOTE]
Despite your venerable knowledge of firearms and airsoft, you are not a very diplomatic person. I'm sure you could have conveyed your point without belittling and insulting him.
On another note there is only 1 roller-delayed blowback pistol that I know of, and its made by HK if that means anything.
Seriously, when it comes to real firearms, the shooter themself is much more important than the firearm they're shooting. Pick a gun you like to shoot and go with it. It doesn't matter what the fuck anyone else thinks of it.
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