Making Facepunch better - Don't post about ratings
5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=jetboy;48158402]Or the return of "ask us about the forums".[/QUOTE]
I miss that thread.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;48158404]We do not allow discussion of bans or other meta-administrative actions in a focused topic. For that — we have the refugee camp.[/QUOTE]
No, the RC does not solve this problem because no one can post there except for the victim of the ban and moderators.
But if that is in-fact the case, I'd like to point out that your ban reason is then completely misleading. You implied that normal members can discuss others' bans but that his post was simply in the wrong place.
this thread basically is AUATF now
discuss them here, this practically is the new age version of AUATF
[QUOTE=The freeman;48158422]Look at any popular thread and you will see people breaking rules and not getting banned. You should know that shit flies under the radar occasionally.
Edit: Literally if you want to make Facepunch better and have rules be implemented more extensively, report more posts. Doesn't matter which reason you pick as long as you pick something.[/QUOTE]
I think the point is that nobody thinks "That's fucking amazing." should really be bannable. I can see a chain of "neat" replies being bannable but what else is there really to say? We don't have a lot of nanocomputing experts here who can explain why they feel that way. Should the thread just go away then? What was the point in posting it in the first place?
It's pretty clear that one way to make Facepunch better would be for moderators to stop contradicting themselves and each other at every turn. I've been here for fucking ages and with any luck I'll be here for another few ages, but this is something that's starting to stick out more and more to me. IE Starpluck yoinks ratings to foster discussion and force people to post that they think something is cool rather than just rating winner, Craptasket bans people for posting that they think something is cool. What's the right answer?
[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48158470]this thread basically is AUATF now[/QUOTE]
Don't let them know or they'll shut the place down.
It is, but only a little. The asking usually only extends as far as recent changes anyway.
was gmod general always bad and it was just me who thought it was good back in like 2010? mostly a barren wasteland now
We used to have a thread for voicing disapproval towards mods (ie: bad bans). would be nice to bring that back, even tho last time it did devolve into a bit of a shit show it was still fun endlessly arguing about how big a bitch craptasket is
[QUOTE=postal;48158490]We used to have a thread for voicing disapproval towards mods (ie: bad bans). would be nice to bring that back, even tho last time it did devolved into a bit of a shit show it was still fun endlessly arguing about how big a bitch craptasket is[/QUOTE]
That sounds like roughly 80% of all posts in the thread would be people getting banned by disgruntled mods who don't like their bans being questioned.
[QUOTE=RejectedPost;48158505]That sounds like roughly 80% of all posts in the thread would be people getting banned by disgruntled mods who don't like their bans being questioned.[/QUOTE]
uh obviously we wouldn't ban people for doing what the thread is for lmao
you're missing the entire point of my post
[QUOTE=postal;48158517]uh obviously we wouldn't ban people for doing what the thread is for lmao[/QUOTE]
"tell us how to make the forums better"
"but if your suggestion has to do with ratings, you get banned"
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"tell us about bad bans"
"but if you talk about user x, y, or z, you get banned"
[QUOTE=postal;48158517]uh obviously we wouldn't ban people for doing what the thread is for lmao
you're missing the entire point of my post[/QUOTE]
We just had a thread in SH where people got banned for commenting on the article being cool and asking questions - and I don't mean the neat bandwagoneers. I can understand why people are raising eyebrows.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;48158481]I think the point is that nobody thinks "That's fucking amazing." should really be bannable. I can see a chain of "neat" replies being bannable but what else is there really to say? We don't have a lot of nanocomputing experts here who can explain why they feel that way. Should the thread just go away then? What was the point in posting it in the first place, then?[/QUOTE]
That's just it, though? we think it's amazing and know that it is, but the problem is, beyond that, it doesn't add anything to a discussion. That used to be less prominent when ratings were around because people could just rate winner and be done with it, but that led to the other reasons why ratings are now gone. Whether we think it should be bannable or not doesn't make a lick of a difference, no matter if we think it's patently unfair. I just think that once people get used to the new idea of things you'll see it happen less, since we'll have to like it or lump it until the mods decide if the change worked or didn't work.
It's just that low content replies have often gone under the radar and the mods seem to be more strictly enforcing it now, now that SH has changed. A bit of warning that it would be more strictly enforced as of the ratings being gone would have been nice, at least
[QUOTE=jetboy;48158528]"tell us how to make the forums better"
"but if your suggestion has to do with ratings, you get banned"
----------
"tell us about bad bans"
"but if you talk about user x, y, or z, you get banned"[/QUOTE]
yeah like when a few pages back when seiteki got butthurt and banned everyone who said a magic word, despite it being on topic discussion.
[QUOTE=postal;48158517]uh obviously we wouldn't ban people for doing what the thread is for lmao
you're missing the entire point of my post[/QUOTE]
I don't really have a lot of faith in the moderation at the moment
If the goal is to incentivize discussion, the previous events have only discouraged me from discussing
[QUOTE=postal;48158517]uh obviously we wouldn't ban people for doing what the thread is for lmao
you're missing the entire point of my post[/QUOTE]
My post was meant to be joking. Guess in this thread climate it was taken completely seriously.
[QUOTE=RejectedPost;48158572]My post was meant to be joking. Guess in this thread climate it was taken completely seriously.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that telling?
I haven't really had a problem with the moderation in a long time, I think they're mostly great dudes (except the swedish one), but there's a growing disconnect between them and the users here and it's showing more and more lately.
[QUOTE=jetboy;48158460]No, the RC does not solve this problem because no one can post there except for the victim of the ban and moderators.
But if that is in-fact the case, I'd like to point out that your ban reason is then completely misleading. You implied that normal members can discuss others' bans but that his post was simply in the wrong place.[/QUOTE]
My issue with RC is that I did actually appeal my ban, and then didn't hear a single thing from the admin who banned me or anyone else.
Its literally where you're least powerful and can be the most ignored. If others could at least see the Refugee Camp I wouldn't so against it.
[QUOTE=postal;48158490]We used to have a thread for voicing disapproval towards mods (ie: bad bans). would be nice to bring that back, even tho last time it did devolve into a bit of a shit show it was still fun endlessly arguing about how big a bitch craptasket is[/QUOTE]
Why don't you remake that thread?
[QUOTE=jetboy;48158528]"tell us how to make the forums better"
"but if your suggestion has to do with ratings, you get banned"
----------
"tell us about bad bans"
"but if you talk about user x, y, or z, you get banned"[/QUOTE]
if something's been discussed to death to the point any other posts get lost in a sea of shit then so what if we say "that's enough for now"? It's still better than never having the thread to begin with lol.
Besides, like BDA said, we want to test out this rating change. If shit isn't working after awhile then of course we can see about reverting but first you have to actually TRY it out instead of just declaring that it can't work right away.
I've seen some RC threads where people have made appeals and the thread gets locked
Here's the problem with the restriction - your ban goes on for a year and your a reformed person (or believe to be) there is still 0% chance of you getting unbanned/making a new appeal
The only possible way is to find and contact a moderator on steam and ask to unlock your thread to make an appeal which is slim, gravely slim
So has the mod team thought that maybe this one thread restriction gets lifted to one thread every 6 months?
Garry's Birthday doesn't happen every year, do not tell me they can wait for that
[QUOTE=Swilly;48158586]My issue with RC is that I did actually appeal my ban, and then didn't hear a single thing from the admin who banned me or anyone else.
Its literally where you're least powerful and can be the most ignored. If others could at least see the Refugee Camp I wouldn't so against it.[/QUOTE]
In that case, a good change would be that the mod who banned you should be notified if someone has appealed their ban, and the banned user should be able to see if his appeal was viewed or not.
[QUOTE=gastyne;48158596]Why don't you remake that thread?[/QUOTE]
I'm debating it but so far nobody else seems interested
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48158555]If the goal is to incentivize discussion, the previous events have only discouraged me from discussing[/QUOTE]
This thread was never meant to be a general discussion thread — or the AUTF thread garry cancelled. This thread is meant for, as per Robotboy's OP:
[QUOTE=Robotboy655;47737413]I am making this thread so you can report any bad/broken stuff after my updates.
You may request/report bugs, but don't expect everything to be fixed/added.
[/QUOTE]
Some users appear surprised that the thread is not adapting to their new commandeered direction. The focus of this thread is not going to change no matter how many people flood it.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;48158577]Isn't that telling?[/QUOTE]
Well to be completely honest the way the mods handle feedback in a way that comes off at least outwardly as a complete refusal to acknowledge the flaws of whatever changes have been made or give proper address to people's feedback. There are just so many times when you have great ideas and ways to fix or deal with problems that are just ignored that it gets frustrating.
Hey, maybe the mods are taking things to heart and just don't like to show it. It'd be nice if that was the case. But as it is it just looks like people make what the mods find uncomfortable amounts of sense and are ignored or shut down. The "because I said so" doesn't make for healthy discussion.
And there's a lot of abusal of "deal with it" which wears extremely thin over time when you're also trying to say that you're listening to people and eventually just makes it look like you're going "na na na can't hear you" over people. Particularly when bans are pulled out. Overall it comes off as "give us feedback and suggestions, but we don't actually like it when you do".
But this is the frustration from the handling of many of the forum's changes speaking, I really do think this thread has made a lot of progress into proper feedback and responses and I think what this thread has achieved is great. I just wish the mod team was a little more open. Things are better now than they usually are.
What's the problem with seeing how this pans out, by the way. Instead of castrating the mod team just see if it's still an issue in a month and start complaining then if it still is.
People flipped that the forum went to 2 columns super hard, but apparently that layout was far better than having it be 1 column. People just realized that 2 columns made sense for the amount of subforums that Facepunch had at the time and rolled with it. Same sort of stuff happened when all the emoticons were culled, most people eventually realized that the forum actually got better without them.
i still think that the one-column layout sucks. It's just a little too long.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;48158608]
Some users appear surprised that the thread is not adapting to their new commandeered direction. The focus of this thread is not going to change no matter how many people flood it.[/QUOTE]
What if we think the mods are the bugs? :V
[QUOTE=The freeman;48158622]What's the problem with seeing how this pans out, by the way. Instead of castrating the mod team just see if it's still an issue in a month and start complaining then if it still is.
People flipped that the forum went to 2 columns super hard, but apparently that layout was far better than having it be 1 column. People just realized that 2 columns made sense for the amount of subforums that Facepunch had at the time and rolled with it. Same sort of stuff happened when all the emoticons were culled, most people eventually realized that the forum actually got better without them.[/QUOTE]
I've never seen anyone say the forums were better off without the fun emoticons, I still see a lot of people posting them in img tags from the SA smilies list. (and I obviously miss them)
And, well, we don't really have a choice. The thread I linked to was a perfect example of concerns people voiced ending up being totally real.
FP has a lot of deeply ingrained issues like this. "oh no this thing is going to happen" "this thing won't happen you fucking idiot shut up" *thing happens* "oh my god hahah got you good deal with it"
Also whenever a change happens, a mod is far more likely to just tell you to shut up if you voice your opinion on it, say, a month down the line compared to just after it's implemented. And by then most people would consign it to the "don't even bother nobody's going to listen just get over it" bin.
[editline]10th July 2015[/editline]
man i sound like i'm going "the mod man is trying to keep you down!" with this post
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