OSX vs. Windows - General - Facepunch Forum

[QUOTE=synthiac;32380504]i used to be a mac user for 3 years. went back to windows after the numerous problems i had with osx, along with it's poweruser unfriendlyness. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] elaborate[/QUOTE] you can basically switch between C and an object oriented language at your will it has C's power and speed, but it can do everything a real object oriented language can. and if you're using the cocoa library it can do some incredible things

[QUOTE=RautaPalli;32379119]That's when you're upgrading from Snow Leopard to Lion. You can't even buy a full version of Lion like you can with Windows 7, you have to first buy Snow Leopard and then upgrade it to Lion. And the total cost of that is about the same if not more than Windows 7.[/QUOTE] Snow Leopard only costs $30 from JB HiFi and the upgrade only costs $30. Last time I checked Windows was >$100 Besides I love having the power of Unix with awesome apps like Photoshop, Source Games, Ruby On Rails and Sinatra.

ive yet to hear a legitimate argument against objective C besides the fact that the syntax is awful (which I fully agree with)

[QUOTE=Map in a box;32380885]Emphasis on old? :v:[/QUOTE] Definitely before 2000.

[QUOTE=mac338;32376999]I'm sorry, but I really hate multitasking on my Mac. It's alright when I have like 5 windows open, but when it gets more then that it gets to be a terrible mess. Windows cluttered everywhere, it takes two clicks and not one to get to the window through the taskbar, and viewing all the windows at once is just a slow, squinty mess.[/QUOTE] I agree on this part, only because of the bar at the top (that reminds me of the Gnome GUI). While it sounds good to be able to minimize a Window and still have it's settings and toolbars available, it gets annoying when you think it's set to the desktop (finder) and it's actually still set to your last program (ie:Photoshop). It also is annoying when you forget you must open a new window and not double click the icon on the dock again for a new Window (I assume there is a setting to change this, but I've never used it). [B]Back on topic:[/B] Most people here don't have a problem with OSX per se, just the lack of openness and proprietary BS. People here on FP generally believe you should be able to install an OS on any x86 computer, not just an Apple made computer. I guess allot of people here have also encountered snobby Mac users who insist the "Mac vs PC" debate is a no brainer, black and white issue with [I]no[/I] preference involved, Macs are just objectively better no matter who you are in their eyes, even if you are a PC gamer. No one here would ever suggest a PC to a grandma who used Macs all her life for example. FP is allot more reasonable than lots of nay sayers here would say.

[QUOTE=Galago;32376910]I'm going to heartily disagree with you on that fanboy remark. I am operating-system-diverse; Windows 7, OS X, Ubuntu, and Joli OS on my netbook. For mobiles I've got an Android phone and an iPad 2. Throughout my experience with both Windows 7 and OSX, I'd stand behind the fact that OSX is FAR more stable. I've yet to have OSX crash or do anything wrong on me. Windows 7, even with my very powerful 6-core machine, can still be unstable.[/QUOTE] Well, I've run Windows all my life and never had it crash, not even at school. But when Apple donated eMacs and iMacs, they had issues all the time and they even had Macs for Dummies permanently sitting on the counter. Not even one Windows XP for dummies. So I think the reliability isn't really an issue.

[QUOTE=Jelly;32380925]Snow Leopard only costs $30 from JB HiFi and the upgrade only costs $30. Last time I checked Windows was >$100 Besides I love having the power of Unix with awesome apps like Photoshop, Source Games, Ruby On Rails and Sinatra.[/QUOTE] It does? [URL="http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/computers-laptops/computer-accessories/apple-snow-leopard-mac-os-10-6-upgrade-for-1-user/462784"]This[/URL] is the only one I could find, and again, that's an upgrade. Not the full OS. Feel free to correct me though, the search on that site is pretty terrible. Edit: Apparently you can install it without having Leopard even though Apple says it's just for upgrading, although that's probably against their EULA. This whole OS X upgrade thing seems to be a huge mess. From what I found out [URL="http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B002I0JKE2/ref=nosim/betteraddons-20"]this[/URL] is the only way to get the full version of Snow Leopard legally without owning a Mac that has Leopard already.

[QUOTE=synthiac;32381136]sounds like c++[/QUOTE] that would be true if C++ was as dynamic as objective C and anyway, C++ is a pretty good language, if objective C is like C++, how is that a bad thing?

Half the shit i want to do don't work on OSX. But damn that Mac book pro is a sexy piece. Mac is a babe magnet :rolleyes:

I won't argue about which system has better applications than the other because to be honest there's nearly always an equivalent on the other system. However, one thing that sticks out to me about OSX is that it's designed to be very clean, and nice to browse in and pretty much provides a great environment for the computer. This is why I think so many developers and designers are known to lean towards OSX - because from experience I know that it's a fucking pain in the ass to work inside an unclean and awkward environment. However it's not only the operating system itself that seems to excel in this. I did mention there are equivalent applications on each system, however I nearly always find that the OSX application looks far nicer to work with in both layout and design, again creating a very nice clean environment to work in. I'd like to give some off the top of my head examples of this: [b]Coda | Notepad++[/b] (Code Editors) [t]http://www.panic.com/coda/img/screenshots/sites-screenshot_03.jpg[/t] [t]http://cdn.portableapps.com/NotepadppPortable.png[/t] [b]Things |Evernote [/b] (Note taking) [t]http://culturedcode.com/styles_2.5/images/screenshot_things_big5.jpg[/t] [t]http://silverlight.net/blogs/jesseliberty/EverNoteWindows_6A79AFB7.jpg[/t] Even if you check out the websites of apps like these you'll find they're very clean and presentable. So to sum it up - OSX is for the awesome environment, and there's usually always a windows counterpart in terms of applications, which is why in my opinion it deserves some positive recognition.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;32381357]that would be true if C++ was as dynamic as objective C and anyway, C++ is a pretty good language, if objective C is like C++, how is that a bad thing?[/QUOTE] Thats the thing, ObjC isnt like C++

[QUOTE=Jelly;32380925]Snow Leopard only costs $30 from JB HiFi and the upgrade only costs $30. Last time I checked Windows was >$100 Besides I love having the power of Unix with awesome apps like Photoshop, Source Games, Ruby On Rails and Sinatra.[/QUOTE] Well my upgrade from Vista to 7 was $40 (it was a preorder too, So I had Windows 7 day one). You gotta look around for deals. Even to this day Windows is basically free to students.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;32381645]Well my upgrade from Vista to 7 was $40 (it was a preorder too, So I had Windows 7 day one). You gotta look around for deals. Even to this day Windows is basically free to students.[/QUOTE] This is true. I can get Windows 7 and shitloads of other Microsoft software for free through MSDNAA.

[QUOTE=TerabyteS_;32376496]This is not the kind of vague remarks this thread asks for. Please list in detail what's good and what isn't [B][I]in the OS[/I][/B] - we are not talking about the hardware here.[/QUOTE] You realize how difficult this is, right? OSX and the Mac's hardware are inseparable. There are things you can't do in OSX, or can't do effectively, because of that hardware. You could even argue that the OS DOES cost twice as much because the initial purchase requires that you buy a Mac as well. I realize the osx86 project works around that, but it's not an officially supported installation method. Regarding the OS itself, I like its feel. The programs I've used generally feel more stable than their Windows counterparts, though I have only limited experience with them. What it lacks, in my opinion, is versatility. OSX has a reputation for being the machine of choice for professional work, but only in certain areas or work and only by individuals or small teams. I haven't yet seen a corporation or enterprise use anything other than Windows. Popular games aren't released for it because of its small market share, which likely involves too much recoding (in their eyes) to be worth their projected sales. This also ties into the hardware issue, which, while not being part of the debate, is a limiting factor on the OS. Games and resource-intensive applications outside of rendering are not as common as they are on Windows because less people own Macs powerful enough in the right areas to make effective use of them due to the high price required. That's my best attempt at a reasonable debate, anyway. I'm sure I made lots of mistakes, so feel free to pick it apart if you want.

[QUOTE=RautaPalli;32381321]It does? [URL="http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/computers-laptops/computer-accessories/apple-snow-leopard-mac-os-10-6-upgrade-for-1-user/462784"]This[/URL] is the only one I could find, and again, that's an upgrade. Not the full OS. Feel free to correct me though, the search on that site is pretty terrible. Edit: Apparently you can install it without having Leopard even though Apple says it's just for upgrading, although that's probably against their EULA. This whole OS X upgrade thing seems to be a huge mess. From what I found out [URL="http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B002I0JKE2/ref=nosim/betteraddons-20"]this[/URL] is the only way to get the full version of Snow Leopard legally without owning a Mac that has Leopard already.[/QUOTE] Yeah they always boost their prices online for some reason. You can even buy it on the [url=http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573Z/A]official Apple store for $30.[/url] It's not as big of a mess as Windows which has about 6 different "upgrades" (Home Premium, Home Basic, etc). [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=The Baconator;32381645]Well my upgrade from Vista to 7 was $40 (it was a preorder too, So I had Windows 7 day one). You gotta look around for deals. Even to this day Windows is basically free to students.[/QUOTE] Except if you aren't a student or don't fit the requirements for it you're screwed.

I was looking in a store catalogue thing today, and side by side was an HP laptop and a Mac. They both had 4GB memory and about the same level of integrated video, however, the Mac had 320GB of HD space, and the HP had 640. The HP had a dual core processor, mac only single core (both i5), the HP had 2 hours longer of battery life and the screen was ~2.5 inches more. The prices? Mac: ~$1200, HP: ~$350.

[QUOTE=TamTamJam;32382236]I was looking in a store catalogue thing today, and side by side was an HP laptop and a Mac. They both had 4GB memory and about the same level of video card, however, the Mac had 320GB of HD space, and the HP had 640. The HP had a dual core processor, mac only single core (both i5), the HP had 2 hours longer of battery life and the screen was ~2.5 inches more. The prices? Mac: ~$1200, HP: ~$350.[/QUOTE] We're talking about the OS/Software not Hardware.

Neither. Linux is obviously superior. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] But between the two, in my opinion OS X is better just because of its Unix base.

My cousin bought a mac and now every day she regrets it. Funny thing is shes an artist.

[QUOTE=mac338;32378410]Aye. I'd agree. The Windows developers aren't the most innovative.[/QUOTE] Call me a dumb person, but I don't want windows to change much, apart from general improvements [sp]Yes, I am using XP.[/sp]

[QUOTE=TamTamJam;32382236]I was looking in a store catalogue thing today, and side by side was an HP laptop and a Mac. They both had 4GB memory and about the same level of integrated video, however, the Mac had 320GB of HD space, and the HP had 640. The HP had a dual core processor, mac only single core (both i5), the HP had 2 hours longer of battery life and the screen was ~2.5 inches more. The prices? Mac: ~$1200, HP: ~$350.[/QUOTE] Apple doesn't have single core processors in their laptops. What HP were you looking at?

and where did you get that there's single core processors in the i5 lineup

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;32380942]ive yet to hear a legitimate argument against objective C besides the fact that the syntax is awful (which I fully agree with)[/QUOTE] Awful syntax is a pretty big downfall of a language. I can't stand using VB because the syntax in that is really weird after spending so long with Java and other C style languages. If the syntax is weird, the language is going to feel weird to use.

Honestly, it all boils down to CHOICE. [U]Windows:[/U] Your average, middle class consumer who uses his computer for looking at Facebook or reading emails. Or, it could be a 32 year old computer programmer who uses his computer to code C++, look at funny cat videos, and play video games. It's an all-around good machine. Another plus is the fact that everyone uses it, so it's easier to get tech support or give tech support o someone, since a larger amount of the population uses it. Windows gets viruses, crashes, but you can fix most of this stuff with a little time and effort. This is for the person that either uses computers for basic things, or is willing to devote a bit of time into making his machine the best. [U]Apple:[/U] These are the Graphic Designers, the artists, and the higher-class people who have a little bit more money to spend. You're paying for the style, speed, and reliability of the machine. Out of the box, it run almost any professional design product: Photoshop, video editing, media management, and a nice slew of stuff due to the app store. Sadly, you can't do much else that Apple doesn't want you to. Sure, you can add a new background or install some programs, but Apple machines aren't as compatible with other things. You can't play as many games, you can't customize as much on the machine, and good luck finding alternative programs to things that only work on Windows or Linux. This is a machine for the people that use computers only for certain programs and don't want to take the time to fix up the machine. [U]Linux:[/U] This is for two extremely separate demographics: People like your mother, who only use an internet browser, and computer enthusiasts that are willing to create their machine. Anyone can install Ubuntu 11 on a computer (maybe with a bit of help for the partitioning portion of the installation). After that, it's simply turning on the computer and opening up a web browser to play your Facebook games and whatnot. Now, for the computer enthusiasts, it can be anything you want. There are so many distributions, you can do any sort of task a computer can do, as long as you have the skill and time to do so. You can edit anything and everything in the system and customize everything. The only problem is that some Windows programs don't work well with WINE (Steam and general gaming), and that people that aren't so good at computers may have trouble. Basically, this is for anyone who is not required to use certain software (AKA Graphic designers who MUST use adobe products for their projects) or anyone who is not a "hardcore" gamer. There. It's just like the endless debate of religion: You believe what you want to. You use each one for what you want to. It's a matter of preference and what you do on your computer.

[QUOTE=Chezhead;32383149] Out of the box, it can do a ton of stuff: Photoshop, video editing, media management, and a nice slew of stuff due to the games. [/QUOTE] absolutely wrong You have to pay lots of money for photoshop on either OS. iMovie is not only not included on most macs (you have to purchase iLife), but it is also so horrible that it's no different than WMM. I don't consider either to be a plus. It has a vastly inferior catalogue of games, so I don't really see why you're listing the games under a positive for OSX And what do you mean by "media management"?

iLife comes free with every mac, what are you talking about

Let's say you want to go from point A to point B. How would you go about doing that? Do you want to take a train that is fast and efficient, but is on a set path (OSX)? Or do you want to take a car, which takes a bit of work, but you can do whatever you want along the way(Windows)? While it really comes down to user preference, I can't resist the urge to say that Windows is superior. OSX is very aesthetically based , and generally gimmicky(I know someone who bought an iMac purely for Photobooth), while Windows has nearly endless possibilities and functionality. Also I find it laughable how some Mac users use Garageband, Comic Creator (I know that's not its actual name), and iMovie as selling points as professional tools. No self-respecting sound engineer would use Garageband to create albums, for the most obvious of reasons.

[QUOTE=mac338;32376466]Posting from my Mac to say: OSX... not good. Does half the stuff for twice the price of a Windows.[/QUOTE] OSX itself is dirt cheap, it's the fact that it will only install on proprietary hardware that sucks. I could see myself using OSX on a few different occasions, if only it didn't require the proprietary hardware that costs out the ass.

[QUOTE=anton;32383271]iLife comes free with every mac, what are you talking about[/QUOTE] It wasn't on mine, nor my sisters that she recently purchased neither have imovie or garageband or iphoto or whatever else there is.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;32383292]It wasn't on mine, nor my sisters that she recently purchased neither have imovie or garageband or iphoto or whatever else there is.[/QUOTE] And you bought it from Apple? That's weird, all macs are supposed to come with iLife.