Socialism today is not even Socialism. - General

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;16643734]The bill strictly states it gives the power of terminating healthcare, restricting healthcare to the mentally ill, restricting healthcare to the elderly, and family planning ALL to the government. Sorry, but we are use to more freedom than that here in America. Maybe it isn't socialism by definition, but it's still taking away a lot of freedom.[/QUOTE] Because you have totally read the 1000 or so page bill by yourself, instead of just hearing all the shit from Glenn Beck and CPR which is controlled by insurance company lobbies. [editline]12:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;16645862]First off its not that hard to use a spellcheck or the edit button to fix the misspellings. [b]Second, health insurance in the U.S. depends on your salary. If you can afford it, you're fine with it. If you can't, you want government to do it for you.[/b] Third, the [url=http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-immigrant-health-transplantaug11,0,3342811.story?page=1]Chicago Tribune[/url] has an article about an illegal immigrant who received an organ transplant. Although I am not against saving human lives,[b] the patient did not have to pay the $150k operation and the hospital has to pay it somehow, so the costs end up becoming a burden on other patients' hospital bill.[/b] I have no reason to doubt this scenario is repeated quite frequently throughout the country and ends up throwing health care costs through the roof at numerous major hospitals. Fourth, who people fear more, private of government health insurance? [url=http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/on_health_care_51_fear_government_more_than_insurance_companies]The numbers are evenly divided.[/url][/QUOTE] But, so many people aren't able to afford it because the cost keeps rising. The whole point of the bill is to provide health insurance for those people, not to switch everyone over to government healthcare, which is an option. One other point of the bill is to force insurance companies to compete, instead of just raising the prices gradually in syncopation, so those who can afford it can pay for what they need, not what the insurance companies want.

We have a thread for the medical deal elsewhere.This guy's merely pointing out fear mongering and hot button words. It's interesting to find someone talking about this, much less about the Carnation Revolution, a very neglected point of history I think. And some of you can go make fun of the soldiers in the picture (and I don't mean the bit about Kumar look-alike), but I doubt many of you would be willing to do what they did and stand up for their people, all the while knowing the consequences, much less restrain themselves from violence.

I want to live in a socialist society. I like the notion of a socialist technocracy.

do you know pacificv2

[QUOTE=Benf199105;16647691]@OP it is not Stalin's Socialism, it is Stalinism. Also, can everyone understand, Socialism and Communism [B]does not [/B] equal censorship / police state. We have never seen true socialism and communism, [B]never[/B].[/QUOTE] And we will never see a fully functioning communist state. Since we are to greedy

"Light socialism", such as the Health care plan, would only further fuck our country up. Long and short term problems would come from such a foolish act.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657672]"Light socialism", such as the Health care plan, would only further fuck our country up. Long and short term problems would come from such a foolish act.[/QUOTE] Explain. Thoroughly, please.

[QUOTE=Greeman;16657715]Explain. Thoroughly, please.[/QUOTE] Here's a little copypasta since I'm too lazy to argue. Advantages: Ensures that everyone has health insurance Disadvantages: Puts everyone on a government plan Gives the government access to individuals bank accounts Puts restrictions on care Costs a lot more than most are currently paying for individual plans Gives the government control over hospital staffing Gives the government control of health care decisions saves NO money Decreases available care

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Here's a little copypasta since I'm too lazy to argue. Advantages: Ensures that everyone has health insurance Disadvantages: Puts everyone on a government plan Gives the government access to individuals bank accounts Puts restrictions on care Costs a lot more than most are currently paying for individual plans Gives the government control over hospital staffing Gives the government control of health care decisions saves NO money Decreases available care[/QUOTE] Here's the biggest problem with government healthcare. No matter how high we hike taxes we can't afford it without fucking over some class of people.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873] Puts everyone on a government plan[/quote] GUB MINT [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Gives the government access to individuals bank accounts[/quote] GUB MINT [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Puts restrictions on care[/quote] Such as? this isn't elaborating [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Costs a lot more than most are currently paying for individual plans[/quote] source please. the fact that a huge chunk of the population is funding it, and the fact that isn't being run for profit, makes me skeptical. [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Gives the government control over hospital staffing[/quote] GUB MINT [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Gives the government control of health care decisions[/quote] GUB MINT [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]saves NO money[/quote] Um, what? Government is there for service, not to save money for itself..? [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Decreases available care[/QUOTE] What do you mean by this? That less people don't have accessible health care? In which case, I'm going to ask you to get out

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;16643734]The bill strictly states it gives the power of terminating healthcare, restricting healthcare to the mentally ill, restricting healthcare to the elderly, and family planning ALL to the government. Sorry, but we are use to more freedom than that here in America. Maybe it isn't socialism by definition, but it's still taking away a lot of freedom.[/QUOTE] It seems to me that our government has gone out of its way to PROTECT the "mentally ill, the elderly, and family planning." I've never, ever seen a government plan that turns down these groups, unless there are not enough taxes to pay for these "social" programs. On the other hand, there are thousands of cases where private health care has limited or even cancelled claims for the mentally ill, the elderly, and even normal regular people. OOOOH. SOCIALISM! SCARY! Srsly, many people in this country of mine watch waaaayyy to much :foxnews: and don't really THINK.

wuts socealismz?? :D

[quote=conscript;16657948]gub mint gub mint such as? This isn't elaborating source please. The fact that a huge chunk of the population is funding it, and the fact that isn't being run for profit, makes me skeptical. Gub mint gub mint um, what? Government is there for service, not to save money for itself..? What do you mean by this? That less people don't have accessible health care? In which case, i'm going to ask you to get out[/quote] [quote] conscript: Hello comrade[/quote] Здравствуйте

oh god stupid conspericies get to the stereotype shelter!

Socialism sucks, get over it.

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643645]Comunism is unrealistic and works mainly in teory. Socialism=/=Comunism.[/QUOTE] You are a GIGANTIC IDIOT.

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” - Winston Churchill “The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help."” - Thomas Sowell “Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” - Gary North “Socialism is the same as Communism, only better English” - George Benard [b]Viva la Capitalism! God bless America![/b]

Democratic socialism is the way to go, what they had in the Soviet union you can't even call a bastardised version of Socialism.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;16660567]“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” - Winston Churchill “The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help."” - Thomas Sowell “Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” - Gary North “Socialism is the same as Communism, only better English” - George Benard [b]Viva la Capitalism! God bless America![/b][/QUOTE] Your quotes suck you could have picked a lot better :v:

Socialism is fucking awesome, not the totalitarian socialism like NK and china have but standard socialism is probably the best government system ever, no capitalists, no conservative bastards, and no people going "YOUR A POOR FAG HAR HAR!" in your face. Also Democratic Socicalism=A+, thank you sweden! And about those people complaining about free healthcare, there all fags from the south. Their opinions do not count

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;16660567]“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” - Winston Churchill “The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help."” - Thomas Sowell “Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” - Gary North “Socialism is the same as Communism, only better English” - George Benard [b]Viva la Capitalism! God bless America![/b][/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_mining]Quote mining[/url]. :downs: Notice the "logical fallacy" part.

[QUOTE=derekjeterfan;16651149]do you know pacificv2[/QUOTE] he's brazillian i think

Remember children Socialism is a few letters away from Satanism.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;16657873]Here's a little copypasta since I'm too lazy to argue. Advantages: Ensures that everyone has health insurance Disadvantages: Puts everyone on a government plan Gives the government access to individuals bank accounts Puts restrictions on care Costs a lot more than most are currently paying for individual plans Gives the government control over hospital staffing Gives the government control of health care decisions saves NO money Decreases available care[/QUOTE] You could always go private. [editline]06:15PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;16660567]“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” - Winston Churchill “The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help."” - Thomas Sowell “Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” - Gary North “Socialism is the same as Communism, only better English” - George Benard [b]Viva la Capitalism! God bless America![/b][/QUOTE] Because capatalism makes america the safest, most desirable country. If there was proper capatalism you'd be whining that the goverment doesn't want to help you.

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3392042820_a0c5921f6b.jpg?v=1238238492[/img] "INITIATING DIRECTIVE #7395: DESTROY ALL COMMUNISTS!"

Socialism is the contradiction of capitalism! :argh:

Seriously, I wish McCarthyism would die in a fire already. Scandinavian socialism ftw.

[QUOTE=cephalopoid;16658068] Srsly, many people in this country of mine watch waaaayyy to much :foxnews: and don't really THINK.[/QUOTE] Because Fox news are Nazi's. So techinically they should be [i]supporting[/i] this if it's socialist.

5 main parties? Let's dance! :dance:

Yes, but unfortunately some yanks are too thickheaded to realize that.