Illuminati does it exist? - General

[QUOTE=Ruzza;33975080]I love it how everyones in denial. They believe everything they see on TV, and think they're safe. Why don't you do your research and wake up into the REAL world?[/QUOTE] I haven't watched TV news in at least two years, what are you on about?

Yes, they're hiding in plane site.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33976859]I haven't watched TV news in at least two years, what are you on about?[/QUOTE] Just how your typical conspiracy theorist reacts to debunkers, they lash out either saying we're brainwashed and ignorant, or if we go really far and completely disprove them then they say we're CIA. Their entire reality is based on picking and choosing what they read and accept so he'll probably completely ignore what you said about watching TV news (I myself still watch it regularly but haven't taken it seriously for about 2 years).

[video=youtube;ajLLqzI3zuE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajLLqzI3zuE[/video] [video=youtube;IDY_R_oxdpw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDY_R_oxdpw[/video] [video=youtube;cHHghW4Pg5k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHHghW4Pg5k&feature=g-all-f&context=G21d2deeFAAAAAAAAcAA[/video] [video=youtube;4qRvC3WK0tA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRvC3WK0tA&list=FLdHZcc3MFdMu0lsEcV53aKA&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/video] [video=youtube;0K0pPjJJiwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K0pPjJJiwA[/video] I am posting this today so that you may look back on this tomorrow. What bothers me the most that the people who live in washington where apathetic about getting answers instead of question authority. But Americans will believe a lie right?

[QUOTE=Copy_Cat;33982190] I am posting this today so that you may look back on this tomorrow. What bothers me the most that the people who live in washington where apathetic about getting answers instead of question authority. But Americans will believe a lie right?[/QUOTE] 1. Crazy person 2. Crazy person 3. Self-disproving. at 2:19, you can clearly see a white wing and a blue underside on the plane. 4. crazy PEOPLE. 5. Unrelated speech by Charlie Chaplin, albeit a great one. [editline]31st December 2011[/editline] Picture of a plane nearly identical to the second one to crash in the tower, owned by the same company- [IMG]http://blog.amsvans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/united-airlines-powerchair-incident.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RagerTrader;33984566]1. Crazy person 2. Crazy person 3. Self-disproving. at 2:19, you can clearly see a white wing and a blue underside on the plane. 4. crazy PEOPLE. 5. Unrelated speech by Charlie Chaplin, albeit a great one. [editline]31st December 2011[/editline] Picture of a plane nearly identical to the second one to crash in the tower, owned by the same company- [IMG]http://blog.amsvans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/united-airlines-powerchair-incident.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] No it's not, whered you get that its a United air plane?

[QUOTE=Jocken300;33906571]There is a lot of shady shit going on behind the scenes that people don't know of and can't understand, such as different political games. The Illuminati is just people trying to explain something that they don't understand. There is no secret society of government officials and people from the media controlling the world. However, our governments and the media still do control the world and influence the way we think. They don't fully control it, of course, but imagine how little freedom we actually have. We are all connected to different databases. Our entire history is available to the higher ups by just typing in our names into one of those databases. We are under surveillance, and we are dependent on money given to us by our governments. While we can express our thoughts publically and think freely, we are still heavily restricted by our governments and the media. This is the way the world works, and it will only get worse.[/QUOTE] That makes sense, but those databases you're talking about.. I mean, you can choose your involvement to the media/wherever, if you don't have email or nothing of importance online. You can remain hidden in plain sight so to speak. Like.. anonymous? And with the money and all you're right, but it's not like working is always bad and boring. After all people seek to do stuff, like animals. Become attached to things out of many other things. We have even grown boredom, and that shit will kill you. Anyway I just basically jumped to this debate but as for Illuminate I've heard shit like our world is induced by some else, like some reptilians or shit like that. Pretty crazy stuff.

[QUOTE=Ruzza;33994378]No it's not, whered you get that its a United air plane?[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175[/url]

Maybe it's a just a practical joke from the media or from Hollywood producers or whoever, just to see how people react, how stupid or naive people can be.

Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [url]http://beast1333.com/history[/url] You can't call anyone a fucking idiot except for yourself until you've read that shit. Seriously. And you're condemning yourself to being a worthless slave made of meat and bone if you can't read it all. But if that's who you want to be, do like they want you to do. Wake up, go to work, go to sleep, die.

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [url]http://beast1333.com/history[/url] You can't call anyone a fucking idiot except for yourself until you've read that shit. Seriously. And you're condemning yourself to being a worthless slave made of meat and bone if you can't read it all. But if that's who you want to be, do like they want you to do. Wake up, go to work, go to sleep, die.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [/quote] It's amazing how often you people could benefit from taking your own advice.

It seems like that whole thing about Martial Law coming to the US, and the US becoming a military police state seems actually plausible now with the NDAA bill being passed by Obama.

Yeah they have a twitter so it must be real. [url]https://twitter.com/#!/TheIlluminati[/url]

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [url]http://beast1333.com/history[/url] You can't call anyone a fucking idiot except for yourself until you've read that shit. Seriously. And you're condemning yourself to being a worthless slave made of meat and bone if you can't read it all. But if that's who you want to be, do like they want you to do. Wake up, go to work, go to sleep, die.[/QUOTE] This link is 100% worthless. It states things that haven't happened or will not happen as if it is certain or guaranteed fact. No citations, just statements presented as facts with nothing to back it up other than pure conjecture. This is not how you debate.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34027387]This link is 100% worthless. It states things that haven't happened or will not happen as if it is certain or guaranteed fact. No citations, just statements presented as facts with nothing to back it up other than pure conjecture. This is not how you debate.[/QUOTE] You can't believe it because it would make your bubble pop, and awaken you to the horror that is reality.

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34028552]You can't believe it because it would make your bubble pop, and awaken you to the horror that is reality.[/QUOTE] I don't believe it because it has nothing supporting it other than itself. Do you have evidence for any of it?

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34028552]You can't believe it because it would make your bubble pop, and awaken you to the horror that is reality.[/QUOTE] You are using the most generic conspiracy theorist arguments ever. "Dude, you are all brainwashed! You're wrong and I'm right, you just don't wanna realize that this webpage I found on Google that provides no sources or citations backing its content up because it would burst your bubble and awaken you to reality!" Maybe you should take a step back, and realize that maybe you are the one sitting in a delusional bubble? Maybe you are getting so hostile towards people because they are criticizing the legitimacy of your "facts"? See, when dealing with issues like this you have to look at it with a skeptical mind and do some actual research other than to read webpages and YouTube videos that just pull "facts" out of their ass, and you have to ask questions.

As a multicultural meme, yes. As a physical or social entity, intermittently. Fact is, the core psychological makeup of people in [I]that[/I] ballpark of economic and social power will [I]never[/I] relinquish a farthing of their own influence with anyone, not even one of their own. As much as such people crave power, they fear it's loss far more. Illuminati-like clubs have formed throughout history, yes, but they fall prey to internal battles more often than external threats. Even with the emergence of the quite-real, ironclad "1%" in the US (which began forming in a recognizable entity all the way back in the 60s), their makeup is across a large variety of backgrounds (For you anti-semites out there, Jews have been far outpaced in that category for decades) and socio/political leanings. When they aren't squeezing profit out of the walking poor, they're trying to strangle each other. Cliques and social groups don't usually form to [I]gain[/I] power as much as they do so to [I]protect[/I] what they already have.

[editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jocken300;34033938]You are using the most generic conspiracy theorist arguments ever. "Dude, you are all brainwashed! You're wrong and I'm right, you just don't wanna realize that this webpage I found on Google that provides no sources or citations backing its content up because it would burst your bubble and awaken you to reality!" Maybe you should take a step back, and realize that maybe you are the one sitting in a delusional bubble? Maybe you are getting so hostile towards people because they are criticizing the legitimacy of your "facts"? See, when dealing with issues like this you have to look at it with a skeptical mind and do some actual research other than to read webpages and YouTube videos that just pull "facts" out of their ass, and you have to ask questions.[/QUOTE] If you want to approach this with philosophical argument, you should eliminate the bias that you have and question even your own argument. You sound like one of those "seeing is believing" types and I think that is a horrible away to approach it considering you never really see anything except a reflection of light off the world. You can even look up into the stars and see light which reflects from a star which isn't even there anymore. I won't even start on mirages or magic tricks. My point is, life is an illusion, you can't trust only your eyes in some situations because they can deceive you. This is one of those situations where you need to rely more on your rational mind rather than your empirical senses. You need to go off more than what you see. Consider the possibility that everyone including me and yourself is potentially wrong with the potential of being right. Ron Paul, US congressman, a credible source, says the same things as the people you appear to argue against. Look him up and see what is happening in America.

[QUOTE=Holywiremod;34034975][editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] If you want to approach this with philosophical argument, you should eliminate the bias that you have and question even your own argument. You sound like one of those "seeing is believing" types and I think that is a horrible away to approach it considering you never really see anything except a reflection of light off the world. You can even look up into the stars and see light which reflects from a star which isn't even there anymore. I won't even start on mirages or magic tricks. My point is, life is an illusion, you can't trust only your eyes in some situations because they can deceive you. This is one of those situations where you need to rely more on your rational mind rather than your empirical senses. You need to go off more than what you see. Consider the possibility that everyone including me and yourself is potentially wrong with the potential of being right. Ron Paul, US congressman, a credible source, says the same things as the people you appear to argue against. Look him up and see what is happening in America.[/QUOTE] I was responding to a guy that called people brainwashed zombies for not believing in the Illuminati, and his evidence of their existence was a webpage that stated things that will happen without providing any sources or citations. All I was trying to say was that there has to be sufficient evidence backing a theory up in order for it to be considered true. If I told you that Obama was the anti-christ and would bring America down in the coming years, without providing any valid sources, would you not question this? Would you not doubt it? What if I then called you a brainwashed zombie that was just too afraid to see reality for what it is for not believing that Obama is the anti-christ rather than to answer your arguments properly. Wouldn't it make my theory even less credible?

[QUOTE=Jocken300;34035324]I was responding to a guy that called people brainwashed zombies for not believing in the Illuminati, and his evidence of their existence was a webpage that stated things that will happen without providing any sources or citations. All I was trying to say was that there has to be sufficient evidence backing a theory up in order for it to be considered true. If I told you that Obama was the anti-christ and would bring America down in the coming years, without providing any valid sources, would you not question this? Would you not doubt it? What if I then called you a brainwashed zombie that was just too afraid to see reality for what it is for not believing that Obama is the anti-christ rather than to answer your arguments properly. Wouldn't it make my theory even less credible?[/QUOTE] Ah, I understand your position. You are correct, questioning is in order here as it is for everything. However, our words cannot change truth. Truth does not revolve around us, we revolve around truth. Words are labels defined by a language. Theories, by definition, are testable and falsifiable which means they can never be 100% true. Anything under 100% true is defined as belief since belief, by definition, is something can has potential to be true or false. Thus, our words, as insignificant mortals, are only capable of speaking beliefs. Only a voice with authority to govern life and nature itself (telling plants where to grow and mountains where to rise) can speak truth. Even considered truth is nothing more than a belief. That is not to say that the truth is out there, as ugly or glorious as it may be. My point is we, as humans, can only try to understand truth rather than say what is and what isn't true. So Just by reading what you have written I can tell you have a good head on your shoulders. ^_^ I suggest looking into the philosopher Descartes as well as Kant to draw your own conclusions on life. Both of them are big doubters so you may like them, Descartes proved that he existed from doubting everything, even himself. Anyway, back on topic (sorry for that.) I'd say look at the history of the US government since 1971 when the value of the dollar started to decline. Also, "racism" and "hate crimes" came recently which violate the 1st amendment of freedom of speech. I say that in the respects of I should be able to call whoever I want, whatever I want. That is freedom. Just over the holidays, the 4th amendment got shit on (right to a trail before jury) as the United States passed the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) which permits the President to deem whoever he sees fit as a 'terrorist' and detain them in military prison indefinitely without trail before a jury. Next, the 2nd amendment is under attack, the right to bear arms. After that happens, we won't be able to defend ourselves against our own government or the criminals in the city. America is showing signs of the Illuminati, The Elite, or whatever you wish to call them. They are there, this is happening, it's only a matter of time before it's the world and not just America. If you really want evidence to make this belief more likely to you, here are their future plans. America will try to provoke war with Iran. A nuclear explosion will result from this on US soil, probability says from Russia or China, who support Iran. Poverty and another Depression will hit America. There will be no more middle class, only the rich and the poor. There will be one banking system which bankrupts and enslaves the majority. How is this evidence? Let time tell you in a few years. Once it happens, that will be your evidence. Then it will be too late. In short, unless something is done now, we are fucked. Say goodbye to having a family, affording a nice house, and many more luxuries that are taken for granted each and every day. Humans, as a whole, are conceited, easy to manipulate and deceive, spoiled and undeserving sometimes, I swear. -_-

[QUOTE=Holywiremod;34035870]Ah, I understand your position. You are correct, questioning is in order here as it is for everything. However, our words cannot change truth. Truth does not revolve around us, we revolve around truth. Words are labels defined by a language. Theories, by definition, are testable and falsifiable which means they can never be 100% true. Anything under 100% true is defined as belief since belief, by definition, is something can has potential to be true or false. Thus, our words, as insignificant mortals, are only capable of speaking beliefs. Only a voice with authority to govern life and nature itself (telling plants where to grow and mountains where to rise) can speak truth. Even considered truth is nothing more than a belief. That is not to say that the truth is out there, as ugly or glorious as it may be. My point is we, as humans, can only try to understand truth rather than say what is and what isn't true. So Just by reading what you have written I can tell you have a good head on your shoulders. ^_^ I suggest looking into the philosopher Descartes as well as Kant to draw your own conclusions on life. Both of them are big doubters so you may like them, Descartes proved that he existed from doubting everything, even himself. Anyway, back on topic (sorry for that.) I'd say look at the history of the US government since 1971 when the value of the dollar started to decline. Also, "racism" and "hate crimes" came recently which violate the 1st amendment of freedom of speech. I say that in the respects of I should be able to call whoever I want, whatever I want. That is freedom. Just over the holidays, the 4th amendment got shit on (right to a trail before jury) as the United States passed the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) which permits the President to deem whoever he sees fit as a 'terrorist' and detain them in military prison indefinitely without trail before a jury. Next, the 2nd amendment is under attack, the right to bear arms. After that happens, we won't be able to defend ourselves against our own government or the criminals in the city. America is showing signs of the Illuminati, The Elite, or whatever you wish to call them. They are there, this is happening, it's only a matter of time before it's the world and not just America. If you really want evidence to make this belief more likely to you, here are their future plans. America will try to provoke war with Iran. A nuclear explosion will result from this on US soil, probability says from Russia or China, who support Iran. Poverty and another Depression will hit America. There will be no more middle class, only the rich and the poor. There will be one banking system which bankrupts and enslaves the majority. How is this evidence? Let time tell you in a few years. Once it happens, that will be your evidence. Then it will be too late. In short, unless something is done now, we are fucked. Say goodbye to having a family, affording a nice house, and many more luxuries that are taken for granted each and every day. Humans, as a whole, are conceited, easy to manipulate and deceive, spoiled and undeserving sometimes, I swear. -_-[/QUOTE] Your speech regarding truth and what can and can't be considered true leads us into a completely different debate regarding definitions, so I'll simply avoid the topic and get back on track. While I can agree with you on that the direction the US has been going in lately hasn't been the best, this does not mean that we can instantly jump to the conclusion of that a secret society of elites is behind it. There are so many other explanations that seem more plausible, and as far as I know there hasn't been any pointers suggesting that what has happened in the US has been the plan of a secret society. If I'm wrong, feel free to enlighten me. And what you did now was tell me what you think will happen to the US in the future and what consequences it will have, and I've heard most of this before, in a matter of fact I even addressed it in my earlier post: you can't just throw out what you think will happen and treat it as fact without having anything to back it up, and saying that "oh once it happens you'll have your evidence" is not sufficient enough. Just look at all doomsday theorists, they don't really have any credible sources to back their theories up, but they make up for it by using the same excuse: "you'll see once the end is here."

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [url]http://beast1333.com/history[/url] You can't call anyone a fucking idiot except for yourself until you've read that shit. Seriously. And you're condemning yourself to being a worthless slave made of meat and bone if you can't read it all. But if that's who you want to be, do like they want you to do. Wake up, go to work, go to sleep, die.[/QUOTE] I remember a long time ago you posted some other batshit insane conspiracy stuff, couldn't tell back then whether or not you were trolling or just handicapped. Now I'm even more confused, is this a running act or were you dropped as a child?

[QUOTE=Jocken300;34040357]Your speech regarding truth and what can and can't be considered true leads us into a completely different debate regarding definitions, so I'll simply avoid the topic and get back on track. While I can agree with you on that the direction the US has been going in lately hasn't been the best, this does not mean that we can instantly jump to the conclusion of that a secret society of elites is behind it. There are so many other explanations that seem more plausible, and as far as I know there hasn't been any pointers suggesting that what has happened in the US has been the plan of a secret society. If I'm wrong, feel free to enlighten me. And what you did now was tell me what you think will happen to the US in the future and what consequences it will have, and I've heard most of this before, in a matter of fact I even addressed it in my earlier post: you can't just throw out what you think will happen and treat it as fact without having anything to back it up, and saying that "oh once it happens you'll have your evidence" is not sufficient enough. Just look at all doomsday theorists, they don't really have any credible sources to back their theories up, but they make up for it by using the same excuse: "you'll see once the end is here."[/QUOTE] I assume we can both agree that in the end it all comes down to our perception. My perception says that something is happening, like you said, it can't be 100% determined until it happens. That doesn't mean it can't be 60% determined or 80% determined. My perception leads me to say that it is likely, from what I have experienced, seen, heard, and rationalized that the Illuminati are probable. You're perception based off of the same things (maybe more or less) say the opposite. However, I feel that just because it isn't 100% certain, that it isn't true. Like I said, we revolve around truth. No matter what we believe, they are or are not out there. All we can really do is speculate. The scary part is, there are members of the Illuminati who have left to appear on radio talk shows and have confirmed what 'crazy' conspiracists have been saying. I'd like to leave you with words for thought, Mozart was a whack job. Einstein had is mental moments as well. Even Aristotle appeared to be 'crazy.' Turns out crazy is an attribute of genius. The more you research the less 'crazy' they seem.

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34028552]You can't believe it because it would make your bubble pop, and awaken you to the horror that is reality.[/QUOTE] That sight is completely worthless. No citations, and it;s the website of a freaking hip hop group, that claims they are preaching to the world. Bring back some more conclusive evidence, then we will talk.

Well i literally saw two big red signs near where I live that outright said "FREEMASONS". That's it.

[QUOTE=blackfire88;34053172]Well i literally saw two big red signs near where I live that outright said "FREEMASONS". That's it.[/QUOTE] Last I heard the freemasons who believe in the illuminati are against it.

[QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [url]http://beast1333.com/history[/url] You can't call anyone a fucking idiot except for yourself until you've read that shit. Seriously. And you're condemning yourself to being a worthless slave made of meat and bone if you can't read it all. But if that's who you want to be, do like they want you to do. Wake up, go to work, go to sleep, die.[/QUOTE] When the prelude to somebody's argument is "you're a worthless slave of meat and bone and a brainwashed zombie," and then links to a page directly comparing former presidents to Hitler, preaching the realization of Orwell's "1984," and giving serious credence to the chemtrail conspiracy theories, it is usually a pretty good indicator that they're full of shit.

Jay-Z must've converted Beyonce! Fucking pentagrams all over the place! [img]http://www.trendfashionstyle.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Beyonce-Cover-Instyle-Magazine-Edition-September-2011-464x588.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Knuffelbeer;33168562]really people couple of decades were prisoned or killed who were speaking about the illuminati you think its stupid and dumb to look further than what is told you that sound ignorant[/QUOTE] Name me one person who was persecuted by the "illuminati" a group that doesn't even exist anymore. [editline]4th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Otsegolation;34025074]Do your homework, brainwashed zombies. [/QUOTE] You can call us brainwashed if we can call you deluded.