Illuminati does it exist? - General

If they're running the world now they're doing a pretty shit job.

It's there, and it's before our very own eyes. The fact that there is even a shadow government, secretly purchasing assets and lands in foreign countries as well as in America gives you an idea. There is a select few that decides what the mass media will portray. (Includes news, printed media and you guessed it, the Internet in itself) The very fact that when someone mentions something out of the ordinary, they are marked as crazy or idiots on that accord. Goodness forbid we do not have anymore rational thought or a means to question something anymore. Have you ever talked to someone lately about spirituality, enlightenment, out-of-body or otherwise concepts that have to do with being human? These topics are usually ignored in society today unfortunately. [URL="http://vigilantcitizen.com"]A good read[/URL]

god this is so much unfathomable retardation based on speculation by larger retards whose claims are already baseless enough dont kid yourself you arent enlightened moreso than anyone else and the burden of proof for huge world controlling secret societies is on you and wow guess what theres complete absence of evidence. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=sHiBaN;33163102]Have you ever talked to someone lately about spirituality, enlightenment, out-of-body or otherwise concepts that have to do with being human? These topics are usually ignored in society today unfortunately.[/QUOTE] spirituality is placebo enlightenment is so vague why even bother trying to define it oob is the largest placebo shit i have ever heard of dont start

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;33163252]god this is so much unfathomable retardation based on speculation by larger retards whose claims are already baseless enough dont kid yourself you arent enlightened moreso than anyone else and the burden of proof for huge world controlling secret societies is on you and wow guess what theres complete absence of evidence. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] spirituality is placebo enlightenment is so vague why even bother trying to define it oob is the largest placebo shit i have ever heard of dont start[/QUOTE] How are you so solid on your stance? It's not like you are omnipotent and see the bigger picture anyway. You are human, dirt and dust just like me. I think it's healthy to have a standpoint of doubt when it comes to the world. If there is a possibility of absolute control, then it is safe to assume that someone will seek that power. If we go about our day being ignorant and just assume everything is ok, that would be the day that man kind suffers it's own downfall. As educated members of society, the ultimatum is to question and be curious

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;33163505]How are you so solid on your stance? It's not like you are omnipotent and see the bigger picture anyway. You are human, dirt and dust just like me. I think it's healthy to have a standpoint of doubt when it comes to the world. If there is a possibility of absolute control, then it is safe to assume that someone will seek that power. If we go about our day being ignorant and just assume everything is ok, that would be the day that man kind suffers it's own downfall. As educated members of society, the ultimatum is to question and be curious[/QUOTE] Except that there isn't a possibility of absolute control? When has there ever been "absolute control"? Believe me, if there was some shadowy body controlling world events from the scenes, they sure as fuck wouldn't let anyone be able to discover it, and they wouldn't be managing it so poorly that nations' economies are collapsing. From these point you could argue two false things: 1. That this shadowy body merely allows nations to go through periods of struggle to maintain the appearance that these nations are independent. 2. That they let nations fall so that they can take them in some world government plot. Both are complete nonsense.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33163626]Except that there isn't a possibility of absolute control? When has there ever been "absolute control"? Believe me, if there was some shadowy body controlling world events from the scenes, they sure as fuck wouldn't let anyone be able to discover it, and they wouldn't be managing it so poorly that nations' economies are collapsing. From these point you could argue two false things: 1. That this shadowy body merely allows nations to go through periods of struggle to maintain the appearance that these nations are independent. 2. That they let nations fall so that they can take them in some world government plot. Both are complete nonsense.[/QUOTE] They are not nonsense in terms of possibility. With the way the world is currently organized, common folk wouldn't be able to have a word in any of the actions of this shadow government. Don't tell me that we are able to fully grasp our surroundings and environment to the point we are able to commend great change? We are not capable of such feats in our own power as individuals. Tell me, are you able to choose the "popular" culture and topics society deems necessary for progression? Who decides the economic fate of a particular country and how is it closely manipulated? Does everyone have an equal right to be able to be elected as passionate leaders of change? Are you free enough today to say that anyone who admires advancing and progressing in education able to achieve it? Who acquires the wealth and how is it generally acquired? About your two points, each one is possible and cannot be justly dismissed without a inkling of values and ideals to question them. Perhaps it is within the said shadow governments interests to collapse a society or perhaps shape it into the image they wholeheartedly desire? I see it everyday in media and unfortunately see it changing the people around me. Don't tell me that the people around you are freely able to live their life and choose with their own will and ambition. Living in a country like the USA shows you how much less freedom you have to "live your dreams" when even to the very neighborhood street you use has been meticulously designed and calculated to present a more economical model for everyone. Cookie cutter houses and identical vehicles, social isolation and desolate urban landscape. It's right there in front of us and people are too ignorant to admit the truth

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;33163714]They are not nonsense in terms of possibility. With the way the world is currently organized, common folk wouldn't be able to have a word in any of the actions of this shadow government. Don't tell me that we are able to fully grasp our surroundings and environment to the point we are able to commend great change? We are not capable of such feats in our own power as individuals. Tell me, are you able to choose the "popular" culture and topics society deems necessary for progression? Who decides the economic fate of a particular country and how is it closely manipulated? Does everyone have an equal right to be able to be elected as passionate leaders of change? Are you free enough today to say that anyone who admires advancing and progressing in education able to achieve it? Who acquires the wealth and how is it generally acquired? About your two points, each one is possible and cannot be justly dismissed without a inkling of values and ideals to question them. Perhaps it is within the said shadow governments interests to collapse a society or perhaps shape it into the image they wholeheartedly desire? I see it everyday in media and unfortunately see it changing the people around me. Don't tell me that the people around you are freely able to live their life and choose with their own will and ambition. Living in a country like the USA shows you how much less freedom you have to "live your dreams" when even to the very neighborhood street you use has been meticulously designed and calculated to present a more economical model for everyone. Cookie cutter houses and identical vehicles, social isolation and desolate urban landscape. It's right there in front of us and people are too ignorant to admit the truth[/QUOTE] but how does that relate to a secret satanist society and not just the power of corporate interest

The question that everyone needs to ask here is "why?" Assuming there's no such thing as coincidences (it's impossible to believe in the illuminati otherwise), assuming despite all the evidence or rather the lack thereof, that all of this illuminati **** is real: WHY? If they do exist what's the point of it? I know I know the whole "martial law, FEMA camps, global government" bit but WHY? People claim they have these imaginary society's actions mapped out exactly for the next few decades but they never say WHY are they doing it. When it comes to something like this I believe in two things: "Innocent until proven guilty" -which they certainly haven't been- and "motive is the most damning evidence" -and they don't appear to have one. I may be wrong maybe there is a rumor for their motive but I've never heard it, if so please enlighten me. Seriously: IF THEY EXIST THEN WHY!? Also another thing I'd like to ask why is: why haven't they started killing off conspiracy theorists? If these people were real psychopaths like Alex Jones would've been shot years ago (I'm about ready to do it myself). These people claim they're such a big threat to this shadow government, they claim they could get whacked any day, why not?

As there's always been, a lot of decisions and plans are formed behind the scenes. The world's most powerful people consolidate their power in an effort to either maintain or increase their overall power over others. It's just the logical thing to do. To assume otherwise would be foolish. But it's equally as foolish to assume there's groups of powerful men gathering together to seriously hold and believe in occult rituals. What should be concerning us is who's interest they're working towards. Their own? Mankinds? From what can be seen of the general tone of policies passed around the world within the last five years it's a good bet that it's a scared and determined effort to control the populace and secure their power as subtly as possible. It's kind of funny how obvious some of it is, for instance the effort to pit the rest of the world against Iran. The supposed terrorist attack by someone with little actual ties to Iran was directly blamed on the nation. The propagation of Iran's nuclear armament and staunch resistance to it despite the majority of developed nations possessing nuclear capabilities. Whatever the media is peddling heavily, chances are that's what they want you to think and feel about a certain subject. What the media's not covering or largely ignoring, that's to be forgotten. Media has always been the most powerful tool for controlling people, the Nazis knew this and used it very effectively. It's the people that form their own opinions from the things they observe rather than just what they're presented that know what's really going on. Oskar Schindler for example saved 1,100 Jewish people during the holocaust because he saw what was really happening and acted upon it rather than simply ignoring it or going along with the rhetoric. The fact that the occupy protests have gained such support from individuals without the help, and sometimes harm, from the media is a good sign we're not doomed to a brain dead society happily consuming all that's given to us without a second thought.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;33163843]The fact that the occupy protests have gained such support from individuals without the help, and sometimes harm, from the media is a good sign we're not doomed to a brain dead society happily consuming all that's given to us without a second thought.[/QUOTE] Whenever I hear a conspiracy theorist mention the media I always have to ask: what "mainstream media" are you watching and are you sure you weren't drunk when you watched it? Where I live all the media talk of the riots has been propaganda in favor of them. The mainstream media is always the polar opposite of what the alternative media claims it is.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;33163886]Whenever I hear a conspiracy theorist mention the media I always have to ask: what "mainstream media" are you watching and are you sure you weren't drunk when you watched it? Where I live all the media talk of the riots has been propaganda in favor of them. The mainstream media is always the polar opposite of what the alternative media claims it is.[/QUOTE] I'm talking mainly about the big three networks being CNN, MSNBC, and FOX. Local stations and region specific networks talk a lot more about region specific things like the protests in certain cities, but the national news doesn't give it the weight and support it should. Kim Kardashian's failed marriage is more important than widespread protests for economic reform and it's more important for a reason.

illuminati existed about 300 years ago but they weren't some devil worshiping group with millions of dollars into the government like people make them out to be. the modern equivalent would be the ordo templi orientis which is esentially the mormons of thelemism. of course freemasons are still around and doing extremely well but that's more like a fraternity than a cult. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] and then there are the nutcases who claim to be the descendants of the original illuminati but those guys should all be locked up

Even if such an organisation does exist, they A. haven't done fuck all or B. done a pretty good job so far in keeping the world under control. Its possible but surely every world leader couldnt be under the influence of one group?

they are not in control of the whole world just a small part of it

[QUOTE=Knuffelbeer;33166317]they are not in control of the whole world just a small part of it[/QUOTE] which part

I cant comprehend how people honestly suggest that an organization is controlling the world and then allowing an appearance of individual operation. People are so flawed that nothing can be secret for long and that no organization of that kind is possible. Really all the proposed arguments are baseless and horrible.

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;33162332]Why? Because it's literally pages pulled from a bad science-fiction novel. That, and the drivel Alex Jones is famous for basically [I][B]is[/B][/I].[/QUOTE] "It sounds like something an eccentric who many people think is crazy would say or something out of a fictional novel so I'm not going to spend any thought on it and just dismiss it as crazy" ever heard the term reality is stranger than fiction? [QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;33164454]Even if such an organisation does exist, they A. haven't done fuck all or B. done a pretty good job so far in keeping the world under control. Its possible but surely every world leader couldnt be under the influence of one group?[/QUOTE] Not every world leader, but they've done a good job at taking care of that. So far America has taken down several of the few remaining countries that used to not have Rothschild controlled banks (Rothschilds are one of the key families) and the ones that still don't (Iran, North Korea and a few others) are either portrayed in our mainstream media *coughpropagandacough* as crazier than they actually are, as a failed state and THE MOST EVILEST PEOPLE EVER FOR HATING OUR ISRAELI FRIENDS (which btw is the most Rothschild controlled nation since it was basically founded by them) or is actually a legitimate failed state lead by a crazy person. Seriously ever actually heard anything some of these other world leaders have actually said? A large number of these leaders appear to be a bunch of schizophrenics who for some reason think America is either an evil empire itself or just a tool for an evil group of elites who want to create a New World Order. How did these crazy conspiracy theorists even get into power? [QUOTE=Megafanx13;33166674]which part[/QUOTE] America and Europe the rest of the world they just have influence over. [QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;33163843]As there's always been, a lot of decisions and plans are formed behind the scenes. The world's most powerful people consolidate their power in an effort to either maintain or increase their overall power over others. It's just the logical thing to do. To assume otherwise would be foolish. But it's equally as foolish to assume there's groups of powerful men gathering together to seriously hold and believe in occult rituals. What should be concerning us is who's interest they're working towards. Their own? Mankinds? From what can be seen of the general tone of policies passed around the world within the last five years it's a good bet that it's a scared and determined effort to control the populace and secure their power as subtly as possible. It's kind of funny how obvious some of it is, for instance the effort to pit the rest of the world against Iran. The supposed terrorist attack by someone with little actual ties to Iran was directly blamed on the nation. The propagation of Iran's nuclear armament and staunch resistance to it despite the majority of developed nations possessing nuclear capabilities. Whatever the media is peddling heavily, chances are that's what they want you to think and feel about a certain subject. What the media's not covering or largely ignoring, that's to be forgotten. Media has always been the most powerful tool for controlling people, the Nazis knew this and used it very effectively. It's the people that form their own opinions from the things they observe rather than just what they're presented that know what's really going on. Oskar Schindler for example saved 1,100 Jewish people during the holocaust because he saw what was really happening and acted upon it rather than simply ignoring it or going along with the rhetoric. The fact that the occupy protests have gained such support from individuals without the help, and sometimes harm, from the media is a good sign we're not doomed to a brain dead society happily consuming all that's given to us without a second thought.[/QUOTE] Couldn't have said it better myself

The Rothschild conspiracy? Really? Are u fucking kidding me.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;33168107]The Rothschild conspiracy? Really? Are u fucking kidding me.[/QUOTE] Yeah the Rothschild conspiracy "theory" Because A family that basically was the only actual winner of the great war of 1812 which was almost the first World War, tricked the UK into giving all their money powers over to them, was one of the families present at that secret meeting at J.P. Morgan's mansion in 1913 when they wrote the Federal Reserve bill, who were the major funders behind the Zionist movement since it's very beginning and who were estimated to be the richest family back in the early 1800s but for some reason despite maintaining their power claim their wealth has decreased so they are no longer portrayed as the richest to most people (convenient) are TOTALLY not in any way some of the most powerful people in the world. I think if you had a conversation with any of our founding fathers over the reasons for the revolution you'd quickly get pissed off at how much of a conspiracy nut job most of them are. Or maybe they might be able to put some sense into you. Actually no, I think what you need is something a little simpler because the first few sentences of what I just said probably looked like "THER READING MY MIND SO I GOTS TO WEAR A TIN FOIL HAT" to you because you've been conditioned to think that way. Here's a nice cartoon to tell you how things really are (its really colorful I think you'll enjoy it) [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU[/url]

i already watched that spergy dumb cartoon and it doesnt make it any more legitimate thanks for attempting to demean me though that's a nice way to argue something that has no legitimate sources to back it up

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;33167335]I cant comprehend how people honestly suggest that an organization is controlling the world and then allowing an appearance of individual operation. People are so flawed that nothing can be secret for long and that no organization of that kind is possible. Really all the proposed arguments are baseless and horrible.[/QUOTE] really people couple of decades were prisoned or killed who were speaking about the illuminati you think its stupid and dumb to look further than what is told you that sound ignorant

[QUOTE=Knuffelbeer;33168562]you think its stupid and dumb to look further than what is told you that sound ignorant[/QUOTE] strawman also more like rothschild conspiracy hypothesis lmao and yes sure ive been conditioned to think a certain way I must be one of those SHEEPLE

well its exceedingly difficult to find sources because even a simple google search of something like "rothschild wealth" has the slanted wiki article on the family which seems to be in a constant edit war between pro-rothschild censors, racist schizophrenics who cant seem to separate Zionist from Jew and regular people who actually want to learn about a family that is probably the wealthiest in the world, and a bunch of links to sites like biblebelievers and infowars, while a search for almost any other household name or person followed by wealth will actually give you credible results. Strange. anyways here's the most decent source I could find. The website seems a bit basic in design but so far while reading it I haven't seen any Rothschild cock sucking or mention of "Jews stealing from stupid goyim" and it seems pretty reasonable and decently sourced. [url]http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rothschild2.html[/url]

I think even if the Illuminati is real, a regular citizen like myself will absolutely never find out. I mean your talking about a group of people that is probably so rich it would stagger a persons imagination. And I guarantee they would use every last scrap of money they had to make sure that 1) there's no evidence of them ever existing 2) There's absolutely nothing left to implicate any individual member and 3) the fewest amount of people know of their existence. So even if it is true that they exist no amount of "raising awareness" and protesting is going to be able to combat money.

I really don't think there is an Illuminati. As far as I'm concerned, the Illuminati is just a fabricated explanation made for simple minded people who are incapable of wrapping their heads around coincidences and things they don't understand.

[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;33164091]I'm talking mainly about the big three networks being CNN, MSNBC, and FOX. Local stations and region specific networks talk a lot more about region specific things like the protests in certain cities, but the national news doesn't give it the weight and support it should. Kim Kardashian's failed marriage is more important than widespread protests for economic reform and it's more important for a reason.[/QUOTE] Ironic you mention the Kardashian thing because I watched NBC last friday and (aside from them openly and somewhat blindly supporting protesters) the last thing they said was bragging they managed to go the whole week without mentioning her. But now we're getting somewhat offtopic so let me just say that the man above me has hit the nail right on the schizophrenic head.

[QUOTE=bluebeam9001;32990316]Illuminati is no fucking conspiracy theory, Michael Jackson told the world about them exposing them, they killed him. 2Pac told the world about them through his music, they also killed him. Two songs I know off by heart 2Pac wrote about the Illuminati: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jH0oqHV81k[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecCQ9w0qV8k[/url] Here's Michael Jackon's song: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q&ob=av3e[/url] If you watch the video, you will see the eye pop up on the right wall. Illuminati ruining DMX's reputation and image: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKUxkz55EZs[/url] DMX & Michael Jackson [b]turned to Islam against Illuminati and because it is the first un touched book.[/b] The "eye" is the all seeing eye, aka the one inside the illuminati's logo [img]http://jimmyprophet.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/eye-in-pyramid-dollar2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Assuming that the Illuminati compromised Christianity, why would they stop there? Islam came far far later, late enough that surely the Illuminati would have compromised Islam as soon they heard about it. On topic: There is no secret society, just rich people who manipulate politicians. That's why the police are being so brutal to OWS. Because the police are owned by these giant corporations and banks. In the United State's case, most politicians are bought by these large corporations. Politicians receive huge pay outs for passing laws that are beneficial to these corporations.

[QUOTE=Extroll;33361133]Assuming that the Illuminati compromised Christianity, why would they stop there? Islam came far far later, late enough that surely the Illuminati would have compromised Islam as soon they heard about it. On topic: There is no secret society, just rich people who manipulate politicians. That's why the police are being so brutal to OWS. Because the police are owned by these giant corporations and banks. In the United State's case, most politicians are bought by these large corporations. Politicians receive huge pay outs for passing laws that are beneficial to these corporations.[/QUOTE] You just essentially said that they don't exist and then turned around and said they do.

[QUOTE=Knuffelbeer;33148533]Yes the Knight templars were the first freemasons because they found something under a destroyed mosque, something that had to do with king soloman some people say they found the kabbalah but thats just a theory.[/QUOTE] Your ''credible sources'' are a laughable joke. Alex Jones is a fraud, a backhanded snake in the grass getting payed overtime to confuse you which he does remarkably well i might add.

why is this debate still being had, it's utterly ridiculous