Quantum Suicide and Immortality - General

Russian Roulet = Classic exemple of Quantic Suicide When he spin the barrel, there is an universe for each position of the chamber, and a diferent outcome for every pulled trigger (Shooting the bullet or not in position 1, not shooting in the other 5 positions, but even thoug, following it universe) Deep :downswords:

[QUOTE=lmaoboat;16531953]Might be less than a theory, I haven't seen any evidence of alternate universes, but I haven't really looked.[/QUOTE] The physics of quantum splits in the universe is identical to the wavefunction collapse of the Copenhagen interpretation. Until we can verify one or the other, they're both perfectly reasonable interpretations of quantum mechanics, which has plenty of experimental evidence. In fact, I think the many worlds theory might be even better than the Copenhagen interpretation because it doesn't necessitate an observer. Under the Copenhagen interpretation, if no one existed to make an observation as to the state of the universe, all quantum possibilities of the universe would exist at once.

[QUOTE=LiveGrenade;16526697]So this is going to sound horribly stupid... So, say you succeed in the Quantum Suicide? And then what...? Can you stop...? Is there any way to just take the gun away from your head and walk away? Because it sounds like you just keep on pulling the trigger... on and on and on and on... with no end.[/QUOTE] Then it would split again, one where you walk away, one where you stay. I have the hang of it now :3

You guys are way over-complicating this. A lot.

[QUOTE=lmaoboat;16531953]Might be less than a theory, I haven't seen any evidence of alternate universes, but I haven't really looked. I am sure, however, that consciousness is irrelevant to this kind of thing as our actions are just as deterministic as a cannonball's trajectory.[/QUOTE] No. Quantum mechanics disproves determinism, as far as we've seen. I'd still argue that free will doesn't exist and that all human consciousness is based on the motions of particles in our environment and brains, but that doesn't mean the future is predetermined.

Look, simple version: You never die, none of the actions you take can kill you. When you do an action that would normally kill another person, you somehow survive, but to everyone else, it looks like you die. You however, exist in a new world. Now there are two worlds. Everyone else lives in world B, where you die, but you now live in world a, which is an exact copy of world b, but you lived and everyone saw you lived.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16532397]No. Quantum mechanics disproves determinism, as far as we've seen. I'd still argue that free will doesn't exist and that all human consciousness is based on the motions of particles in our environment and brains, but that doesn't mean the future is predetermined.[/QUOTE] How can we tell if quantum effects are truly random if we can never repeat the same exact conditions? If you tell a computer to generate a random number, it may seem to be doing so, but it's just the result of complex algorithms. Isn't it possible that the strange behavior of quantum particles is caused by factors can't see?

[QUOTE=lmaoboat;16532484]How can we tell if quantum effects are truly random if we can never repeat the same exact conditions? If you tell a computer to generate a random number, it may seem to be doing so, but it's just the result of complex algorithms. Isn't it possible that the strange behavior of quantum particles is caused by factors can't see?[/QUOTE] Strange behavior? The reason quantum events are random is because the existence of a quantum particle can only be expressed as a wave of probability until an observation as to its position is made. Schrodinger's wave equation will tell you the probability of a particle existing at any single point. These probabilities are non-negotiable. It's irrelevant as to WHY they are what they are, but they are. There is, however, apparently ongoing research into whether quantum events truly are random.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16533192] There is, however, apparently ongoing research into whether quantum events truly are random.[/QUOTE] I hope it isn't random, because it would totally mess up my concept of the universe if it turned out you can have an effect without a cause. Then again, anything existing at all is a violation of causality.

So this is what science based religion looks like.

[QUOTE=lmaoboat;16534724]I hope it isn't random, because it would totally mess up my concept of the universe if it turned out you can have an effect without a cause. Then again, anything existing at all is a violation of causality.[/QUOTE] Certainly not. Quantum events, though they seem counterintuitive, still follow an ordered set of rules. [editline]02:50AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;16534768]So this is what science based religion looks like.[/QUOTE] No. No it isn't.

It contradicts itself.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16534769]Certainly not. Quantum events, though they seem counterintuitive, still follow an ordered set of rules. [/QUOTE] I'm saying all of existence must of either spontaneously come into existence, or always existed, neither of which make any sense.

[QUOTE=lmaoboat;16532484]How can we tell if quantum effects are truly random if we can never repeat the same exact conditions? If you tell a computer to generate a random number, it may seem to be doing so, but it's just the result of complex algorithms. Isn't it possible that the strange behavior of quantum particles is caused by factors can't see?[/QUOTE] This is caused by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal, amongst other things. Some argue that it is a lack of information which causes the uncertainty of the future. Others would argue that because the amount of information needed is infinite, it doesn’t exist, and instead exists as a wave of probability (which has been proved by the diffraction pattern created by atoms as they interfere with themselves when passed through two slits simultaneously - a by-product of the quantum wave function). Either way, if the universe IS deterministic, we will never be able to predetermine it.

It's bullshit. It completely contradicts anything we've learned and proven about physics and such up to this point. By this Quantum Immortality theory, if a guy jumps off a fucking skyscraper building, he creates split universe where he somehow survives, despite it being IMPOSSIBLE that he survives the fall.

[QUOTE=professional;16536162]It's bullshit. It completely contradicts anything we've learned and proven about physics and such up to this point. By this Quantum Immortality theory, if a guy jumps off a fucking skyscraper building, he creates split universe where he somehow survives, despite it being IMPOSSIBLE that he survives the fall.[/QUOTE] It doesn't contadict physics, thats the point. It is a theoretical byproduct made possible by quantum physics, which we are 99.999999999999% sure is totaly accurate, judging by the tests we've thrown at it. It would never be impossible that he survives the fall. Near impossible, sure, but not impossible. Something could always happen that makes him survive. Somone fell out of a plane that exploded due to a bomb at 35,000 ft, and she survived. Thats pretty improbable. Even if you make it the most unlikely to survive scenario, like a nuke, there is always a minute chance of survival. Of course we can never test this coz odds are we will be in the reality where you DONT survive.

mind=blown :psyboom:

[QUOTE=Thlis;16534768]So this is what science based religion looks like.[/QUOTE] You've clearly never read The Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

[QUOTE=professional;16536162]It's bullshit. It completely contradicts anything we've learned and proven about physics and such up to this point. By this Quantum Immortality theory, if a guy jumps off a fucking skyscraper building, he creates split universe where he somehow survives, despite it being IMPOSSIBLE that he survives the fall.[/QUOTE] Something may break his fall. Honestly, there are endless possibilities. Although, what my mind cannot comprehend is that how can quantum physics accommodate for all of these man-made factors? Like medical procedures. How does it know when to split? Is it at every miniscule moment? How small is that? What determined how small it was supposed to be? How did that know to determine how small to make it? It goes on, truely remarkable.

[QUOTE=professional;16536162]It's bullshit. It completely contradicts anything we've learned and proven about physics and such up to this point. By this Quantum Immortality theory, if a guy jumps off a fucking skyscraper building, he creates split universe where he somehow survives, despite it being IMPOSSIBLE that he survives the fall.[/QUOTE] Well, what if he decides not to jump? What about that?

[QUOTE=professional;16536162]It's bullshit. It completely contradicts anything we've learned and proven about physics and such up to this point. By this Quantum Immortality theory, if a guy jumps off a fucking skyscraper building, he creates split universe where he somehow survives, despite it being IMPOSSIBLE that he survives the fall.[/QUOTE] It's not impossible to survive the fall, it's just really really really improbable.

[QUOTE=Kade;16536262] Even if you make it the most unlikely to survive scenario, like a nuke, there is always a minute chance of survival. Of course we can never test this coz odds are we will be in the reality where you DONT survive.[/QUOTE] Rapid decompression. Absolutely no chance of survival. Major need for clean up crew.

[QUOTE=Thlis;16540768]Rapid decompression. Absolutely no chance of survival. Major need for clean up crew.[/QUOTE] What if by chance you didnt enter a scenario in which would experience rapid decompression? Also even with this, im sure there is a tiny tiny tiny chance of survival. Perhaps almost infinately small. But still possible.

[QUOTE=Kade;16540806]What if by chance you didnt enter a scenario in which would experience rapid decompression? Also even with this, im sure there is a tiny tiny tiny chance of survival. Perhaps almost infinately small. But still possible.[/QUOTE] Hell no there is no chance for survival when you are in essence exploding.

[QUOTE=Thlis;16540827]Hell no there is no chance for survival when you are in essence exploding.[/QUOTE] Put it this way. According to QM particles can pass through barriers which - according to classical physics - they shoulden't be able to. If all of the particles of ur body did this at the same time, you could essentialy pass straight through a wall. It would take a near infinate ammount of time waiting for all the probability waves to work in your favor all in sync, but it is possible. A similar thing could potentialy happen with rapid decompression. The particles of you body may return or keep their original positions and you would still be alive. The probability of this is almost infinately small. But its still a possibility.

Surviving nukes, wow, shit got deeper than expected. Even if it's infinitly small, there is a chance, and QM is happening every micro second, so we could say, probably not in this universe but a different one, it could survive

[QUOTE=Kade;16541030]Put it this way. According to QM particles can pass through barriers which - according to classical physics - they shoulden't be able to. If all of the particles of ur body did this at the same time, you could essentialy pass straight through a wall. It would take a near infinate ammount of time waiting for all the probability waves to work in your favor all in sync, but it is possible. A similar thing could potentialy happen with rapid decompression. The particles of you body may return or keep their original positions and you would still be alive. The probability of this is almost infinately small. But its still a possibility.[/QUOTE] That is utter crap. I am sorry but it is. You are suggesting something which doesn't have a single shred of possibility.

[QUOTE=Thlis;16541255]That is utter crap. I am sorry but it is. You are suggesting something which doesn't have a single shred of possibility.[/QUOTE] Please read up on the subject. :bang:

You explode from your body decompressing rapidly. It has nothing to do with the perfect chances that you could phase through a wall.

If you jump out of an airplane 2 KM high with no means of protection, it doesn't matter how infinitely small any probability is, it shouldn't matter what you fall into, you WILL die. It's not infinitely improbable, it IS impossible.