Quantum Suicide and Immortality - General

its basically like killing yourself in another reality, except you in OUR reality has a chance of dieing. whats the point?

[QUOTE=thisispain;16518039]fine then i'll quote the government [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Leapsecond.png[/img][/QUOTE] You know what, why'd you go and ruin the fun.

[QUOTE=thisispain;16517915]That doesn't make any sense. The time space lines goes like this in a game. [code]----------------------------|Save Game|----Death-|Universe Gone \ --------------------------------------------Universe continues[/code] There are no parallel universes because the other universe stopped existing.[/QUOTE] Does it matter you're dead anyway :v:

The only reality that CAN be yours is the one in which you continue existing, as it's the only actual one that you can continue to observe. You're not picking the realities as such, you're just been shoved into them because you can't observe ones in which you're dead.

[QUOTE=PeeOnMe;16518052]its basically like killing yourself in another reality, except you in OUR reality has a chance of dieing. whats the point?[/QUOTE] Ergh, there’s only so many times I can explain this. The essence of all Q particles is probability distribution. This probability distribution negates the existence of an objective reality. Instead, new realities made possible with the creation of probabilistic circumstances, and then defined when this probability is destroyed and the 'reality' of the outcome is created. Now, because of experiments such as the double slit experiment - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment[/url] - we can see that quantum particles can exist in more then one state simultaneously, which means that multiple realities are created each time a Q particle is decohearent with reality. The particles state in our reality is only defined when its decoherence is broken by observation/measurement/interaction with another particle. SO when you shoot urself in the head, while ur macroscopic body/gun/box etc is decohearent with the rest of the universe in our reality (ie having no interaction with it), then you would, like a quantum particle, exist in more than one state simultaneously - both dead and alive. You could keep doing this, and although there would be many more realities where u would be dead, in some, you would still be alive, and so on forever. However you can’t choose which reality you are in, so odds are you would die. However, if you were lucky, you could potentially live forever. It is, by QM, POSSIBLE to be immortal. Just very improbable that it will happen in our version reality. That’s is essentially it.

[QUOTE=noctune9;16516640]Our conscience is the result of chemistry, not quantum physics.[/QUOTE] I doubt chemistry can adequately explain consciousness. So far nothing can. No area of science as of yet accounts for the conscious experience. It doesn't make sense. It really shouldn't exist according to what we know so far. That's one area that I'd love to do work into when I'm older: consciousness. I was reading a lot about Orch-OR (Orchestrated Objective Reduction) recently (it's a theory of consciousness founded by the immensely awesome Sir Roger Penrose and the lesser known Stuart Hameroff). Interesting stuff.

[QUOTE=sltungle;16518352]I doubt chemistry can adequately explain consciousness. So far nothing can. No area of science as of yet accounts for the conscious experience. It doesn't make sense. It really shouldn't exist according to what we know so far. That's one area that I'd love to do work into when I'm older: consciousness. I was reading a lot about Orch-OR (Orchestrated Objective Reduction) recently (it's a theory of consciousness founded by the immensely awesome Sir Roger Penrose and the lesser known Stuart Hameroff). Interesting stuff.[/QUOTE] I like to think of consciousness like a computer system, where the subconscious is all the programs running on a normal machine, and the conscious is a kind of 'master program' which utilizes the other programs to further itself, such as we use our senses, memory, etc. Although not fully understood, neurology is making advances in this area. But then I’m a reductionist and believe there is nothing mystical about the human condition. I don’t believe in free will, and I don’t believe in existentialism. :cheers:

[QUOTE=Kade;16518601]I like to think of consciousness like a computer system, where the subconscious is all the programs running on a normal machine, and the conscious is a kind of 'master program' which utilizes the other programs to further itself, such as we use our senses, memory, etc. Although not fully understood, neurology is making advances in this area. But then I’m a reductionist and believe there is nothing mystical about the human condition. I don’t believe in free will, and I don’t believe in existentialism. :cheers:[/QUOTE] It comes down to self-awareness though. That undoubtedly does exist, and it shouldn't. I can agree on the free will point. The universe is deterministic, thus it would appear that everything else is. Yet, I can't see self-awareness being something that arises from any classical, deterministic physical system. And if self-awareness turns out to be based on some non-deterministic system then I guess that'd mean that free-will in extension could also be real, and not just a really good illusion. Sorry if that's articulated terribly. It's late. I should go to sleep.

Haha, that was awesome.

[QUOTE=Kade;16517006]My reply to that was in the quote of me. When it becomes time to die the universe would split again, creating another where he lives and dies. There is no final death as with every measurement there will be a probability of survival, which would create another surviving reality, regardless of what the thing causing the death was. Even old age.[/QUOTE] That's stupid. You'd be unraveling the whole fabric of the universe. Guy jumps off building, he dies. So by this theory, when he jumps, he creates another split universe where he doesn't die from the fall? Ridiculous. What happens when he dies of old age? He just doesn't die and gets older? I believe this theory is just another attempt at the ever continuing human need to want to believe there is something after death, instead of just blackness.

[QUOTE=sltungle;16518686]It comes down to self-awareness though. That undoubtedly does exist, and it shouldn't. I can agree on the free will point. The universe is deterministic, thus it would appear that everything else is. Yet, I can't see self-awareness being something that arises from any classical, deterministic physical system. And if self-awareness turns out to be based on some non-deterministic system then I guess that'd mean that free-will in extension could also be real, and not just a really good illusion. Sorry if that's articulated terribly. It's late. I should go to sleep.[/QUOTE] I understand what you're saying, and I totally agree. I just feel as weird as consciousness is, it will eventually be explained as a physical system. I think a large part of the problem is that humans tend to invest a lot of importance in their own 'free will' and consciousness, and reject it being explained in physical terms, leading to things like satres’ Bad Faith - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_%28existentialism%29[/url] (which i think can be overcome - just because we may not be responsible for our actions, doesn’t mean we should act irresponsibly). It may be simpler to look at it in terms of the self awareness of single celled organisms or something. Blah I feel like I'm going totally off topic hehe [editline]04:03PM[/editline] [QUOTE=professional;16518779]That's stupid. You'd be unraveling the whole fabric of the universe. Guy jumps off building, he dies. So by this theory, when he jumps, he creates another split universe where he doesn't die from the fall? Ridiculous. What happens when he dies of old age? He just doesn't die and gets older? I believe this theory is just another attempt at the ever continuing human need to want to believe there is something after death, instead of just blackness.[/QUOTE] Did u actually read/look into any of the actual science behind this at all? Quantum Mechanics is the most successfully proved theory ever made by man. It has passed all rigorous tests thrown at it with flying colours. This is a by-product of QM. So if you believe in the computer you are using (computers rely on QM), then this theory HAS to also be in your belief list, at least under 'possible'.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;16517633]Your odds of surviving gradually decrease, but still never hit zero.[/QUOTE] The odds of you not getting shot decrease. But eventually you will die from something else.

[QUOTE=Robber;16518895]The odds of you not getting shot decrease. But eventually you will die from something else.[/QUOTE] Are you even reading my responses?

[QUOTE=Kade;16518837]I understand what you're saying, and I totally agree. I just feel as weird as consciousness is, it will eventually be explained as a physical system. I think a large part of the problem is that humans tend to invest a lot of importance in their own 'free will' and consciousness, and reject it being explained in physical terms, leading to things like satres’ Bad Faith - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_%28existentialism%29[/url] (which i think can be overcome - just because we may not be responsible for our actions, doesn’t mean we should act irresponsibly). It may be simpler to look at it in terms of the self awareness of single celled organisms or something. Blah I feel like I'm going totally off topic hehe [editline]04:03PM[/editline] Did u actually read/look into any of the actual science behind this at all? [B]Quantum Mechanics is the most successfully proved theory ever made by man[/B]. It has passed all rigorous tests thrown at it with flying colours. This is a by-product of QM. So if you believe in the computer you are using (computers rely on QM), then this theory HAS to also be in your belief list, at least under 'possible'.[/QUOTE] What about gravity? [B]Edit:[/B] Damn you. Broke mah automerge. [editline]05:05PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kade;16518904]Are you even reading my responses?[/QUOTE] When did you reply to me? No really, I must have overlooked it. :confused: [B]Edit3:[/B] I looked through the whole second page. Didn't find your reply. [B]Edit4:[/B] Found it: [QUOTE=Kade;16516576]Even with old age, there will be some realities, a tiny percent, where he DOESN'T age at all - as we are all made of quantum particles which can essentialy be in more then one state at any time. Apperatus like the OP scenario isn't needed for the creation of new realities, this happens as a natural part of our universe according to QM. For everything that can kill the immortal, there will always be a tiny percent of realities where he survives.[/QUOTE] That doesn't have anything to do with the experiment with the gun. Also, there is no percentage of realities where you survive something really deadly, like getting your head squished between a 10k ton metal block and a flat concrete surface.

ITT: People who understand/agree with quantums vs people who don't. Also I think this theory makes more sense to me than the cat one. But that's just me.

[QUOTE=Robber;16518910]What about gravity? [B]Edit:[/B] Damn you. Broke mah automerge.[/QUOTE] Google 'most successful theory'. And gravity ISNT the most successful theory as it doesnt fit in properly at the quantum level. This isn't an issue with QM itself, as every other part of QM fits in perfectly. The problem is with our understanding of what gravity is. If we find gravitons to exist, and nail that Higgs Boson at the LHC, then the whole thing works perfectly.

[QUOTE=Kade;16518837] Did u actually read/look into any of the actual science behind this at all? Quantum Mechanics is the most successfully proved theory ever made by man. It has passed all rigorous tests thrown at it with flying colours. This is a by-product of QM. So if you believe in the computer you are using (computers rely on QM), then this theory HAS to also be in your belief list, at least under 'possible'.[/QUOTE] Quantum Mechanics has nothing to do with the operational capabilities of a computer, sorry to tell you. The only thing that does is the electrical engineering of the computer itself and whatever laws dictate how the energy transfers among the circuits and transistors (QM isn't a law FYI). Your silly QM backward ass pseudo-science/religion has nothing to do with that, silly willy!

[QUOTE=KorJax;16519007]Quantum Mechanics has nothing to do with the operational capabilities of a computer, sorry to tell you. The only thing that does is the electrical engineering of the computer itself and whatever laws dictate how the energy transfers among the circuits and transistors (QM isn't a law FYI). Your silly QM backward ass pseudo-science/religion has nothing to do with that, silly willy![/QUOTE] Your ignorence is irritating. How about how electrons bridge gaps between semi conductors (as in a transistor)? That IS Quantum Tunneling. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[QUOTE=Robber;16518895]The odds of you not getting shot decrease. But eventually you will die from something else.[/QUOTE] The odds of you dying from something else also decreases.

Did a third grader write this theory? It's a load of horse crap. I think it's been proven by billions of people that nobody is immortal no matter how many times they fail at shooting themselves.

[QUOTE=Doozle;16516380]Can someone explain the scenario in laymans terms? I don't have assburgers[/QUOTE] Essentially - through the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, which essentially means that every conceivable state of an instance is manifested in its own universe, you will have the possibility when firing a gun at your own head that you will somehow live, and through that, you will survive in another "universe". Therefore, your consciousness remains and you will not notice a difference. [editline]11:33AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kade;16518209]Ergh, there’s only so many times I can explain this. The essence of all Q particles is probability distribution. This probability distribution negates the existence of an objective reality. Instead, new realities made possible with the creation of probabilistic circumstances, and then defined when this probability is destroyed and the 'reality' of the outcome is created. Now, because of experiments such as the double slit experiment - [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment[/url] - we can see that quantum particles can exist in more then one state simultaneously, which means that multiple realities are created each time a Q particle is decohearent with reality. The particles state in our reality is only defined when its decoherence is broken by observation/measurement/interaction with another particle. SO when you shoot urself in the head, while ur macroscopic body/gun/box etc is decohearent with the rest of the universe in our reality (ie having no interaction with it), then you would, like a quantum particle, exist in more than one state simultaneously - both dead and alive. You could keep doing this, and although there would be many more realities where u would be dead, in some, you would still be alive, and so on forever. However you can’t choose which reality you are in, so odds are you would die. However, if you were lucky, you could potentially live forever. It is, by QM, POSSIBLE to be immortal. Just very improbable that it will happen in our version reality. That’s is essentially it.[/QUOTE] But what forces our consciousness to remain in this reality? Hypothetically, you wouldn't know the difference.

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16519262]Essentially - through the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, which essentially means that every conceivable state of an instance is manifested in its own universe, you will have the possibility when firing a gun at your own head that you will somehow live, and through that, you will survive in another "universe". Therefore, your consciousness remains and you will not notice a difference.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily 'your' consciousness. When a new reality is created, the one that’s yours might be the one in which you really do die. It would be an alternate version of your consciousness which survives, though if you are lucky and ur reality is the one in which you survive, then all is well. Other then that, yes. Edit: i conceed that i am not aware of anything 'forcing' our conciousness to remian in one reality. I just work under the assumption that my conciousness exists only in MY reality, and that other versions of conciousness exist in other realities. I take this to be somewhat of an axiom. So when the realities split which ever one im in, i live or die.

How can this be proven?

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16519262] But what forces our consciousness to remain in this reality? Hypothetically, you wouldn't know the difference.[/QUOTE] Newflash: Your brain is a lightbulb. Take away the power source, it's lights out. There no arbitrary "consciousness". [QUOTE=Billiam;16519401]How can this be proven?[/QUOTE] It can't. Hence why its only a theory, not fact.

[QUOTE=professional;16519546]It can't. Hence why its only a theory, not fact.[/QUOTE] It's sounds more like speculation than a theory.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;16519208]Did a third grader write this theory? It's a load of horse crap. I think it's been proven by billions of people that nobody is immortal no matter how many times they fail at shooting themselves.[/QUOTE] For the external observer they die, that's the problem. If you have a 99% chance of dying from something, everyone else will see the 99% chance outcome, but you'll be stuck in the Universes where that 1% chance comes into play.

Quantum physics can never be used to make anyone immortal, The immortality on the Quantum Physics is based on things existing in multiple universes. One simply cannot live normal life if hes kept alive by quantum immortality, Because being alive is very relative. Even when you die you still exist, You're just in a state where you're just really fucked up. Usually scientist explain the quantum physics in this fashion: Shitstorms wreck the planet and clowns are eating people, and you're a cow. The reality would be that chance of survival from attempting to shoot yourself in the head would be very very low. Expecially if you place the gun's barrel behind your ear so that the bullet would pass through both of the brains.

[QUOTE=papu2;16519787]Quantum physics can never be used to make anyone immortal, The immortality on the Quantum Physics is based on things existing in multiple universes. One simply cannot live normal life if hes kept alive by quantum immortality, Because being alive is very relative. Even when you die you still exist, You're just in a state where you're just really fucked up. Usually scientist explain the quantum physics in this fashion: Shitstorms wreck the planet and clowns are eating people, and you're a cow. The reality would be that chance of survival from attempting to shoot yourself in the head would be very very low. Expecially if you place the gun's barrel behind your ear so that the bullet would pass through both of the brains.[/QUOTE] In layman's terms: You die.

Interestingly enough, I was rereading Parallel Worlds earlier, specifically the section on the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Imagine that.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16519852]Interestingly enough, I was rereading Parallel Worlds earlier, specifically the section on the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Imagine that.[/QUOTE] The odds are highly unlikely. Anyway, can someone write up about the Copenhagen Interpretation?