Suicide is your last gateway to escape from everything terrible in the world, though it's take when you have friends, families and other agencies to help you out, you'd only use it for a last resort.
Hell, if all my family, friends and others died I'd might as well shove a bullet in my brain but how can one do it? How can one wake up or even think today is the day I die, how.
A classmate of mine committed suicide last friday, his little sister found him dead in his room. Apparently he was depressed for a while but never showed it at school.
I don't agree on doing it because of depression, but if you are a potato or in immense pain it should be legal.
I don't understand why you would kill yourself. You're going to die in the end anyways.
If you play a game of pinball and happen to do bad in the start, you don't get your coin back if you walk away. So might as well play it out and see how it goes.
[QUOTE=Block;32458635]I don't understand why you would kill yourself. You're going to die in the end anyways.
If you play a game of pinball and happen to do bad in the start, you don't get your coin back if you walk away. So might as well play it out and see how it goes.[/QUOTE]
you don't seem to understand depression at all
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;32458605]A classmate of mine committed suicide last friday, his little sister found him dead in his room. Apparently he was depressed for a while but never showed it at school.
I don't agree on doing it because of depression, but if you are a potato or in immense pain it should be legal.[/QUOTE]
The problem with the potato argument is that it's difficult to make certain that THEY are the ones choosing to die.
Your body is your own, you should have the final say in any debate about what should be done with it, if you decide you want to kill it that's your decision. You might disagree with someone's choice to end themselves or not but it's their choice, not yours.
I don't really see how you can make suicide "illegal" apart from assisted suicide, but that's really a whole other case to me. Assisted suicide is fine if they are medically suffering a pain that cannot be treated, etc. (If you want more on this, see the assisted suicide thread)
As for plain suicide, that's really debatable. People DO have the right to do as they wish to their body and I respect that. Whether it be hurting it or healing it, it's their choice really. You see that a lot nowadays, people trying to tell others what to do and what not to do with their body.
Although with suicide you have a completely irreversible effect that may or may not harm/sadden the people around them. Plus suicide is a common thing among teens, at that age they don't think clearly (as well as normally suicidal people most of the time) and are very prone to making a stupid mistake that could probably be gotten over (not saying depression is easy to suck up and deal with, it's just their could be hope past it)
Allowing or accepting suicide could also be fatal. Suppose a person is ready to kill themselves, they may decide to do something drastic as payback or to do one last crazy thing. And by that I mean any crime pretty much. Stealing a car, killing a hated bully or coworker, or other random acts like those. Now, that doesn't apply to every suicidal person, chances are they are too depressed to do something like that but it's still a possibility.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;32458418]No, what if someone kills someone and tries, and fails, to kill theirself straight afterwards?[/QUOTE]
So the person is still alive? Well, if it was a murder, then the person should be charged with murder. If the person was just carrying out an assisted suicide and just trying to commit suicide after, then there should be no legal charges. Again, this could get at bit complicated which is why contracts with a third party present would make the most sense with assisted suicide, so that it can be known that there was consent given.
[QUOTE=Franke_R!?;32458445]Suicide should be legal in my opinion as long as the person who wants to take his/her life asks all the people he/she knows permission[/QUOTE]
Do other people have a right to my body?
honestly "its their choice" is stupid
they're mentally unstable, seriously, just going "its their choice" encourages it and doesn't help at all
suicide isn't a natural feeling at all, its a sign that [B][I][U]THEY NEED HELP[/U][/I][/B]
Often times people purport that a tendency to commit suicide is indicative of mental illness.
While people who do commit suicide might statistically have had a greater degree of mental instability than others, I feel that any tendency to end one's life is due more to the unbearable circumstances that they might be in, coupled with an utter feeling of hopelessness. The type of factors that might have lead to such a negative outlook on life may indeed have been spawned from previous mental illnesses that they could've had in the past, but such a desire to no longer live a life they deem is unnecessary and painful is not, in itself, a 'mental illness.'
[QUOTE=J!NX;32459231]honestly "its their choice" is stupid
they're mentally unstable, seriously, just going "its their choice" encourages it and doesn't help at all
suicide isn't a natural feeling at all, its a sign that [B][I][U]THEY NEED HELP[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, it's a situation in which people need help. But, IT IS THEIR CHOICE. You can shout and whine all you fucking want, but it's their choice and that should never be anything BUT their choice. So what if it encourages it, people who want to will and people who don't won't, but you'll say you know well enough whether they should live?
You've never been depressed and you've never struggled with suicide. Personally, I'm glad I failed suicide each time I attempted it, but at the time, there was no fix and nothing got better. Things still haven't really gotten better, but I'm still here. Taking away that choice from people who want it is just demoralizing and stupid. You'll treat them like children doing that. People who are depressed enough to be in that mind set have their own choices to make. You don't get to make that choice for them.
It seems FP is full of "liberals"(i fucking hate using this term) who are fine and dandy with invasion of other peoples choices when that's the exact opposite of what it's meant to be about.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32459231]honestly "its their choice" is stupid
they're mentally unstable, seriously, just going "its their choice" encourages it and doesn't help at all
suicide isn't a natural feeling at all, its a sign that [B][I][U]THEY NEED HELP[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]People should have morphological freedom, and any other freedom, regardless if you or I or anyone else agrees with what they do with it.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32459231]honestly "its their choice" is stupid
they're mentally unstable, seriously, just going "its their choice" encourages it and doesn't help at all
suicide isn't a natural feeling at all, its a sign that [B][I][U]THEY NEED HELP[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]
Even granted that were true, none of that would matter as there would only be two moral cases for preventing suicide by means of force.
One is where force is being used against you, as it is just to aggress against an agressor. In the case of suicide, this claim cannot inherently be made.
The second case is where it would be immoral for someone to commit suicide due to property rights, because they were not the full owners of their body. If you accept this notion, then by virtue of logic you also accept a form of slavery and the question becomes "how much of your body do you own?". Why wouldn't the slave owner want their slaves committing suicide? Why wouldn't the government?
I certainly object to suicide, but I find the laws against it to be more obscene as any law limiting the power of someone to take their life must first claim authority/ownership of such life.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32457786]That's the worst argument against suicide. It's not selfish, it's selfish of you and everyone around that person to tie them down to a world that they clearly don't want to be in because you can't handle being sad for a few weeks or days.[/QUOTE]
Few weeks or days? It effects family and friends for the rest of their lives.
Your argument works both ways; because the person committing suicide can't handle "being sad" for a few "weeks or days" they should just kill themselves?
[QUOTE=J!NX;32459231]honestly "its their choice" is stupid
they're mentally unstable, seriously, just going "its their choice" encourages it and doesn't help at all
suicide isn't a natural feeling at all, its a sign that [B][I][U]THEY NEED HELP[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]
We occur in nature, our thoughts occur in us, suicide is a thought, suicide is natural. Absolutely nothing is unnatural and it's time to stop using that as an argument for anything.
And "it's their choice" isn't half as stupid as "it's somebody else's choice".
How can suicide be illegal? If someone does it, most likely they will die, can't charge the dead.
[QUOTE=Caesar;32461452]Few weeks or days? It effects family and friends for the rest of their lives.
Your argument works both ways; because the person committing suicide can't handle "being sad" for a few "weeks or days" they should just kill themselves?[/QUOTE]
Grief and depression are totally different. The DSM-IV makes the distinction by saying grief lasts up to 2 months, anything longer is major depression. The symptoms are opposite in many ways, as well.
[url]http://depression.about.com/od/grief/a/griefdepression.htm[/url]
So your comparison is fundamentally flawed.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32463901]Cliche posted, adds nothing.[/QUOTE]
Suicide is only justifiable when you are going to die soon anyway. Take Hitler, he knew he was dead anyways so he saved them time and offed himself first.
While depression will take a huge toll on someone, it doesn't mean the person can one day pull through and be happy again.
Being truly in control of your mental state is easy once you know how, and it takes a lot of hard work andsheer effort to attain, which most people aren't willing to give.
I think until you've hit the bottom of the barrel and had a truly bad experience, you don't realise that there's more to life than surface/decoration.
Suicide is a tough call, whilst I'd say that it's their choice at the end of the day, everything CAN get better, and change begins within.
I enjoy helping people with inner issues get back on track with their lives and start attaining mental superiority, so here's 4 words that I guarantee will speak volumes to you, if you realise the absolute 100% truth behind them:-
'This Moment Will Pass'.
Sometimes i wonder why people suicide. Is it just because they are depressed that they can actually do it?
I know someone who has nothing but bad luck, had a shit childhood and a dying mother, and yet he keeps saying noone should suicide.
But on the other hand there's the 12 year old people that hang themselves in their closet.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;32463945]Suicide is only justifiable when you are going to die soon anyway. Take Hitler, he knew he was dead anyways so he saved them time and offed himself first.
[/QUOTE]
"Soon" is relative
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=sami-elite;32464217]Sometimes i wonder why people suicide. Is it just because they are depressed that they can actually do it?
I know someone who has nothing but bad luck, had a shit childhood and a dying mother, and yet he keeps saying noone should suicide.
But on the other hand there's the 12 year old people that hang themselves in their closet.[/QUOTE]
People kill themselves when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32464123]Being truly in control of your mental state is easy once you know how, and it takes a lot of hard work andsheer effort to attain, which most people aren't willing to give.
I think until you've hit the bottom of the barrel and had a truly bad experience, you don't realise that there's more to life than surface/decoration.
Suicide is a tough call, whilst I'd say that it's their choice at the end of the day, everything CAN get better, and change begins within.
I enjoy helping people with inner issues get back on track with their lives and start attaining mental superiority, so here's 4 words that I guarantee will speak volumes to you, if you realise the absolute 100% truth behind them:-
'This Moment Will Pass'.[/QUOTE]
I've told a friend that no matter how shit it might be now, some day it will be better. And he thanked me after that.
If you live by that, i don't think you will suicide.
[QUOTE=sami-elite;32464239]I've told a friend that no matter how shit it might be now, some day it will be better. And he thanked me after that.
If you live by that, i don't think you will suicide.[/QUOTE]
Tell that to someone who has chronic pain or is schizophrenic or was molested by their uncle for years as a kid or any other number of horrible things that can happen to a person. Choosing to live by that isn't necessarily something people can just do overnight.
You're right.
I don't really care if people actually suicide. If they want to, go ahead.
But if people keep saying "I WILL KILL MYSELF :(((" just to get attention, then they really should do it.
[QUOTE=Caesar;32461452]Few weeks or days? It effects family and friends for the rest of their lives.
Your argument works both ways; because the person committing suicide can't handle "being sad" for a few "weeks or days" they should just kill themselves?[/QUOTE]
As zeke already pointed out, being sad over the loss of a family member and being ACTUALLY depressed(have you ever been actually depressed? Not just "oh, I'm sad today"? Then please, don't talk like you understand it.) are two completely different worlds.
If a person can't handle being "sad" for a few days, and kills themselves, that's pretty stupid. But if a person has long term depression and kills themselves, that's a different issue.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;32463945]Suicide is only justifiable when you are going to die soon anyway. Take Hitler, he knew he was dead anyways so he saved them time and offed himself first.
While depression will take a huge toll on someone, it doesn't mean the person can one day pull through and be happy again.[/QUOTE]
But you don't know. If you're depressed, life already looks grim, and it's already hard to get out of the bed in the morning. This isn't lazyness, and no one who's never had depression before can even begin to understand what it really feels like to be depressed, what reason do you have to believe life will get better? What if you go through life just believing naively that the next day will some how be better? You haven't been depressed so you won't know how fucking terrible that sounds to someone who is.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32464123]Being truly in control of your mental state is easy once you know how, and it takes a lot of hard work andsheer effort to attain, which most people aren't willing to give.
I think until you've hit the bottom of the barrel and had a truly bad experience, you don't realise that there's more to life than surface/decoration.
Suicide is a tough call, whilst I'd say that it's their choice at the end of the day, everything CAN get better, and change begins within.
I enjoy helping people with inner issues get back on track with their lives and start attaining mental superiority, so here's 4 words that I guarantee will speak volumes to you, if you realise the absolute 100% truth behind them:-
'This Moment Will Pass'.[/QUOTE]
My friend was raped. 3 times, same night. She killed herself a year later. That moment NEVER passed for her.
That's horseshit and insults the memories of my dead friend.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=sami-elite;32464239]I've told a friend that no matter how shit it might be now, some day it will be better. And he thanked me after that.
If you live by that, i don't think you will suicide.[/QUOTE]
But that's not always how life works. Life isn't filled with sunshine and rainbows for all people so why should all people live by the same stupid rule?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32467445]As zeke already pointed out, being sad over the loss of a family member and being ACTUALLY depressed(have you ever been actually depressed? Not just "oh, I'm sad today"? Then please, don't talk like you understand it.) are two completely different worlds.
If a person can't handle being "sad" for a few days, and kills themselves, that's pretty stupid. But if a person has long term depression and kills themselves, that's a different issue.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
But you don't know. If you're depressed, life already looks grim, and it's already hard to get out of the bed in the morning. This isn't lazyness, and no one who's never had depression before can even begin to understand what it really feels like to be depressed, what reason do you have to believe life will get better? What if you go through life just believing naively that the next day will some how be better? You haven't been depressed so you won't know how fucking terrible that sounds to someone who is.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
My friend was raped. 3 times, same night. She killed herself a year later. That moment NEVER passed for her.
That's horseshit and insults the memories of my dead friend.
[editline]24th September 2011[/editline]
But that's not always how life works. Life isn't filled with sunshine and rainbows for all people so why should all people live by the same stupid rule?[/QUOTE]
Avatar fits
[QUOTE=Sirdrone536;32467583]Avatar fits[/QUOTE]
I joke about suicide because I can't take it seriously with 3 dead friends all because of suicide and multiple attempts under my own belt.
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