[QUOTE=DanTehMan;35017369]You didn't provide any conclusive evidence against biological factors, though[/QUOTE]
I'm not supporting either side, but the burden of proof is on the person saying there are biological factors. He shouldn't have to prove that there aren't.
I'm pretty damn sure it's not solely one thing, many factors contribute to the process.
[QUOTE=Levithan;35020699]I'm pretty damn sure it's not solely one thing, many factors contribute to the process.[/QUOTE]
I believe that being gay can be an act of nature and nurture as well as a personal choice. I'll explain all three.
Nature: It could very well be that gays are born with a different set of genes or other biological factors that contribute to being gay. Don't look past it. Some people have posted some pretty good articles based on the idea that gays are born differently biologically.
Nurture: Let's say you don't have any biological factors that make you gay. What if you were raised by gay parents at a very young age. You could adopt the belief that being in a gay relationship is what love actually is depending on other environmental factors (such as straight friends). I'm not saying it's wrong to love another man/woman.
Personal choice: Let's say you're a man and you've been in several relationships with other women. All of them have been just plain nasty to you (slept with other guys, wanting money - not love, etc.) and you pretty much just say "fuck it" and decide to start dating other men. Sure, it would be an adjustment. In fact, it would be a huge adjustment. It doesn't mean it's not possible, though. Believe it or not, there have been straight men that turn gay for personal reasons. The said example is just one of probably several.
I just thought I'd clear things up a little just in case someone didn't understand what I was getting at.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35021325]Personal choice: Let's say you're a man and you've been in several relationships with other women. All of them have been just plain nasty to you (slept with other guys, wanting money - not love, etc.) and you pretty much just say "fuck it" and decide to start dating other men. Sure, it would be an adjustment. In fact, it would be a huge adjustment. It doesn't mean it's not possible, though. Believe it or not, there have been straight men that turn gay for personal reasons. The said example is just one of probably several.
I just thought I'd clear things up a little just in case someone didn't understand what I was getting at.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but you can't choose what you're attracted to, it just doesn't work that way (Look up sexuality "correction" and see how many "ex-gay" people have suffered from depression or attempted suicide), you can realise or come to terms with the fact that you find men or women sexually or romantically attractive, but you don't suddenly "turn gay".
@Nurture.
Yes, because only gay parents can raise gay children.
It's OK to be gay, I think, but it's not OK to be faggot. Gay is homosexual man, faggot is hypersexual homosexual man. Hypersexuality is bad both with straight nymphomaniacs and faggots.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is NOT how to post in Mass Debate" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=SiPlus;35021631]It's OK to be gay, I think, but it's not OK to be faggot. Gay is homosexual man, faggot is hypersexual homosexual man. Hypersexuality is bad both with straight nymphomaniacs and faggots.[/QUOTE]
Actually faggot is just an insult.
I believe the term is flaming queen, and I don't like them either. They make us look bad by perpetuating stereotypes. And being gay is not a choice. Do you really think I want to be a discriminated against minority? "Hmm, I feel like being hated by my entire family this week, I think I'll be gay." That is not how this works.
[QUOTE=fluke42;35022270]I believe the term is flaming queen, and I don't like them either. They make us look bad by perpetuating stereotypes. And being gay is not a choice. Do you really think I want to be a discriminated against minority? "Hmm, I feel like being hated by my entire family this week, I think I'll be gay." That is not how this works.[/QUOTE]
The best response to make when someone says homosexuality is a choice is "When did you choose to be straight?"
Well, I've always been heterosexual I have no clue how it came to my sexual identity but it did. Homosexuality is no different if you feel an attraction to a man or a girl to girl than that's pretty hot. I also find it odd how heterosexual males find gays disgusting, but females find it cute.
Yeah I notice my cliche that I made there.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35021325]I believe that being gay can be an act of nature and nurture as well as a personal choice. I'll explain all three.
Nature: It could very well be that gays are born with a different set of genes or other biological factors that contribute to being gay. Don't look past it. Some people have posted some pretty good articles based on the idea that gays are born differently biologically.
Nurture: Let's say you don't have any biological factors that make you gay. What if you were raised by gay parents at a very young age. You could adopt the belief that being in a gay relationship is what love actually is depending on other environmental factors (such as straight friends). I'm not saying it's wrong to love another man/woman.
Personal choice: Let's say you're a man and you've been in several relationships with other women. All of them have been just plain nasty to you (slept with other guys, wanting money - not love, etc.) and you pretty much just say "fuck it" and decide to start dating other men. Sure, it would be an adjustment. In fact, it would be a huge adjustment. It doesn't mean it's not possible, though. Believe it or not, there have been straight men that turn gay for personal reasons. The said example is just one of probably several.
I just thought I'd clear things up a little just in case someone didn't understand what I was getting at.[/QUOTE]
your nurture argument stands no ground, as milkandcooki pointed out
your personal choice argument is just as bad. if you think that everyone can change their attractions, I suggest that you might be in some denial, and projecting your own traits onto others
[editline]6th March 2012[/editline]
i don't know why it's been acceptable in this forum to post bullshit without evidence and not get banned
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35023250]
i don't know why it's been acceptable in this forum to post bullshit without evidence and not get banned[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35023250]I suggest that you might be in some denial, and projecting your own traits onto others[/QUOTE]
Huh.
I made a suggestion, not the same as casting a belief onto an entire group of people
[QUOTE=Rents;35021530]Sorry, but you can't choose what you're attracted to, it just doesn't work that way (Look up sexuality "correction" and see how many "ex-gay" people have suffered from depression or attempted suicide), you can realise or come to terms with the fact that you find men or women sexually or romantically attractive, but you don't suddenly "turn gay".[/QUOTE]
I never said a person can "suddenly" turn gay. Sorry if it seemed that way.
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35024130]I made a suggestion, not the same as casting a belief onto an entire group of people[/QUOTE]
I don't see any evidence suggesting that this:
[QUOTE=deaded38;35021325]I believe that being gay can be an act of nature and nurture as well as a personal choice. I'll explain all three.
Nature: It could very well be that gays are born with a different set of genes or other biological factors that contribute to being gay. Don't look past it. Some people have posted some pretty good articles based on the idea that gays are born differently biologically.
Nurture: Let's say you don't have any biological factors that make you gay. What if you were raised by gay parents at a very young age. You could adopt the belief that being in a gay relationship is what love actually is depending on other environmental factors (such as straight friends). I'm not saying it's wrong to love another man/woman.
Personal choice: Let's say you're a man and you've been in several relationships with other women. All of them have been just plain nasty to you (slept with other guys, wanting money - not love, etc.) and you pretty much just say "fuck it" and decide to start dating other men. Sure, it would be an adjustment. In fact, it would be a huge adjustment. It doesn't mean it's not possible, though. Believe it or not, there have been straight men that turn gay for personal reasons. The said example is just one of probably several.
I just thought I'd clear things up a little just in case someone didn't understand what I was getting at.[/QUOTE]
Is anything more than a suggestion. Also, I fail to see the moral distinction between casting such a belief over a group or just one person.
[QUOTE=Rents;35021530]Sorry, but you can't choose what you're attracted to, it just doesn't work that way[/QUOTE]
Why not?
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35023250]your nurture argument stands no ground, as milkandcooki pointed out
your personal choice argument is just as bad. if you think that everyone can change their attractions, I suggest that you might be in some denial, and projecting your own traits onto others
[editline]6th March 2012[/editline]
i don't know why it's been acceptable in this forum to post bullshit without evidence and not get banned[/QUOTE]
No, my argument was just fine. I never said "all gay people are gay because their parents were". If you could read, I said it all depends on other environmental factors. If you're home-schooled in a house with two gay parents, yes you will probably be gay since that is what you've seen love as. Also, people CAN change their attractions. People have turned gay before. It's not "oh you're one or the other your whole life". I'm not in one bit of denial. I admit when I'm wrong or have been defeated and this is not one of those times.
[QUOTE=limulus54;35024969]Why not?[/QUOTE]
It's not something the conscious mind can just suddenly CHANGE.
It's an innate thing, some people are fluid and can be aroused by either sex to varying degrees, others are only attracted to a single sex.
It's one of the main god damned reasons why "Gay Therapy" doesn't work, they're still gay on the inside.
[QUOTE=Levithan;35025370]It's not something the conscious mind can just suddenly CHANGE.[/QUOTE]
Again, whoever said it had to be sudden?
My bad.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35025025] If you're home-schooled in a house with two gay parents, yes you will probably be gay since that is what you've seen love as.[/QUOTE]
burden of proof is yours here
furthermore, why does that idea of yours only apply when the parents are gay?
[QUOTE=deaded38;35025945]Again, whoever said it had to be sudden?[/QUOTE]
as lev said, gay therapy does not work, nor is the 'therapy' intended to be sudden
[QUOTE=Levithan;35025370]It's not something the conscious mind can just suddenly CHANGE.
It's an innate thing, some people are fluid and can be aroused by either sex to varying degrees, others are only attracted to a single sex.
It's one of the main god damned reasons why "Gay Therapy" doesn't work, they're still gay on the inside.[/QUOTE]
Still seems like a bad idea to rule out the possibility.
well I suppose you could have a stroke or something
[QUOTE=deaded38;35025025]No, my argument was just fine. I never said "all gay people are gay because their parents were". If you could read, I said it all depends on other environmental factors. If you're home-schooled in a house with two gay parents, yes you will probably be gay since that is what you've seen love as. Also, people CAN change their attractions. People have turned gay before. It's not "oh you're one or the other your whole life". I'm not in one bit of denial. I admit when I'm wrong or have been defeated and this is not one of those times.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone is trying to argue with you, we're trying to tell you that you are just wrong. There have been numerous gay adoptions and most of the kids turn out straight. You could argue that kids could be conditioned to be gay, but since all kids are conditioned to be straight, why are there gay people?
And you keep insisting that people have turned gay or straight seemingly at their will, this is also wrong and not supported by fact. Those testimonials by the gay therapy clinics don't mention the huge relapse rate of gay feelings and behaviors associated with their patients, it simply isn't possible to change your physical attractions at will, over a long or short run. if someone claims they've turned one way or another, they would've had to have a predisposition to it earlier in life.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;35027086]I don't think anyone is trying to argue with you, we're trying to tell you that you are just wrong. There have been numerous gay adoptions and most of the kids turn out straight. You could argue that kids could be conditioned to be gay, but since all kids are conditioned to be straight, why are there gay people?
And you keep insisting that people have turned gay or straight seemingly at their will, this is also wrong and not supported by fact. Those testimonials by the gay therapy clinics don't mention the huge relapse rate of gay feelings and behaviors associated with their patients, it simply isn't possible to change your physical attractions at will, over a long or short run. if someone claims they've turned one way or another, they would've had to have a predisposition to it earlier in life.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not saying "all gay people are gay because their parents were". If you're going to quote my post, at least read it. There are other environmental factors besides the parents. All kids aren't conditioned to be straight. If their parents are gay and they don't interact with straight people much, yes they're probably going to be gay because of the sheer fact that the child has seen love in that way. As to why there are gay people, I'm assuming there are biological factors that helped create the first gay person. Sooner or later, gays started adopting children. At this point, these children had the potential to be gay due to the environmental factors throughout their childhood. Again, I'm not saying that all gay people raise gay children. It would be dumb of me to say so. What I'm saying is there is a reasonable chance that a child raised by two gay parents can be gay depending on other environmental factors. Get it? Good.
And yes, I am insisting that because you act like there hasn't been a single straight person who has turned gay and has been happy with his/her life - which is bullshit. Sure, it doesn't happen very often. I never said it did. But it is possible.
[editline]7th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35030011][url]http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/01/13/ex-gay-leader-admits-there-are-no-ex-gays/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FreethoughtBlogs+%28Freethought+Blogs%29[/url][/QUOTE]
Just because you found an article of an "ex-gay's" shitty opinion on this matter doesn't mean that gay people haven't become straight before. Besides, I'm pretty sure that article was created as an attempt to make gays believe they're fine the way they are and that they shouldn't change it. I'm not saying gays aren't fine the way they are. It's just that article seemed like it was trying to convince gays to have "gay pride" or whatever and not to change themselves because that would be "bad".
[QUOTE=deaded38;35036484]But it is possible.
[/QUOTE]
I'd like to see a source on this.
And goddamn, you really seem like a homophobe from your posts.
And changing yourself would be bad, go kiss some dude and we'll see how fun it is.
[QUOTE=Croix;35038813]I'd like to see a source on this.
And goddamn, you really seem like a homophobe from your posts.
And changing yourself would be bad, go kiss some dude and we'll see how fun it is.[/QUOTE]
I don't need a source. It's called common sense. Gay people can become straight. Maybe not in the exact same way a lifelong straight person. But it can happen.
No, I'm not a homophobe. Just because I know the truth doesn't mean I'm a homophobe. Contrary to popular belief, I have gay friends.
Changing yourself isn't bad. I stopped beating the shit out of people over silly things when I got into middle school because I matured. That's a change. Also, you're acting like the change is spontaneous. I'm sure it takes time and support. You don't just go ahead and start kissing someone of the same sex for any reason.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35040215]I don't need a source. It's called common sense. Gay people can become straight. Maybe not in the exact same way a lifelong straight person. But it can happen.[/QUOTE]
Gonna have to stop you right there. This is a debate, and in this sort of instance you need to produce a source. If you do not and continue to assert this, you will be banned.
[QUOTE=deaded38;35036484]
Just because you found an article of an "ex-gay's" shitty opinion on this matter doesn't mean that gay people haven't become straight before. Besides, I'm pretty sure that article was created as an attempt to make gays believe they're fine the way they are and that they shouldn't change it. I'm not saying gays aren't fine the way they are. It's just that article seemed like it was trying to convince gays to have "gay pride" or whatever and not to change themselves because that would be "bad".[/QUOTE]
That "shitty opinion" of evidence, that you brush off like you do any other evidence contrary to your argument(while stating that you are totally right and don't need proof), comes from the president of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International]one of the largest "ex-gay" ministries[/url].
If you cannot accept that you could be wrong, and rely on something so flimsy a reason as "common sense", you should not be stating the nature of a group of people that you are not a part of.
Please site your sources, from which you engineered this "common sense", please.
Source: [url]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story?id=117465&page=1[/url]
Happy?
[editline]7th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bletotum;35040762]That "shitty opinion" of evidence, that you brush off like you do any other evidence contrary to your argument(while stating that you are totally right and don't need proof), comes from the president of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International]one of the largest "ex-gay" ministries[/url].
If you cannot accept that you could be wrong, and rely on something so flimsy a reason as "common sense", you should not be stating the nature of a group of people that you are not a part of.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you need to accept you're wrong. I provided my source since you people seem to think EVERYTHING needs one. I don't brush off evidence. There hasn't been any except for your pro-gay article.
Also, common sense can be the best source of all.
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