Why hasn't "under god" been removed from the American pledge? - General

[QUOTE=Neolk;18769335]You don't have to say 'under god' if you don't want to. Besides, I don't think there is an official document that says 'This is the pledge of allegiance'. People just choose to say under god.[/QUOTE] i lol'd irl.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18768976]I'm saying if you don't respect the nation you live in, good or bad, and you don't bother to do anything about it, good or bad, why are you even living here?[/QUOTE] Because most of the time, the people in the crossfire of America's shit, are poor people and poor people are poor traveling and moving, especially to another country, is so ungodly expensive. [editline]08:57PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Conscript;18769048]wtf trotsky[/QUOTE] just sayin'

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769395]I call you out on the history part sir, you obviously don't know it because otherwise you would know that all of today's societies are based on ancient civilizations one way or another, and the base ideas are still the same. Times have changed yes, but you still have greedy bastards trying to reach the top of the triangle and the poor workers getting walked on at the bottom.[/QUOTE] it is if you look at it that vaguely.

To those who say if you don't like the pledge go to Canada you are sadly wrong. As up here they force us to stand in veneration of the national anthem which commands "god keep our land glorious and free". Also if you say you recite this pledge or stand for an anthem in respect to the people who fought to preserve it, recall that the reason why America, Canada, and most other western country's are great is because of the fact that they protects the rights(inalienable ones present as a result of being a human) of their individual citizens. Any idealistic soldier who thought themselves fighting for the righteous aspects of their country of origin was not fighting so that the people who make a judgement to disagree with the government, or decide for themselves they don't want to be part of state sponsored veneration, could be declaired heretics and subject to punishment. They were fighting against that attitude that rights are privilages which can be revoked at any time, that it is a crime to peacefully dissagre with the government, to not properly venerate state symbols The sooner people realize that, the sooner they stop bickering with each other about what people other than themselves should or should not do, and realize that the greatest aspect of the civilization they live in is their ability to not do what others try to force on them.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18769418]Because most of the time, the people in the crossfire of America's shit, are poor people and poor people are poor traveling and moving, especially to another country, is so ungodly expensive.[/QUOTE] A piece of paper you can get nearly anywhere for very cheap, if not free. A pen you can borrow from anywhere, I have tons laying all over. A stamp you can purchase at a Post office for a few cents. An envelope can be purchased at nearly any store and can probably be given to you for very cheap at the post office as well. All in all, you just made a difference by writing a letter to the state, thus helping change. If you are too poor for this, I don't see why you're surfing the web right now.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769223]*Sigh* Never bring politics and religion into a conversation... and we did both. As for the Athiests here, in a democracy, you're never going to satisfy every single person living there. Obviously people aren't going to like something. If you remove 'under god' its going to anger a lot of people who liked old traditions and probably Christians, if we leave it, we're going to anger a small amount of people that are athiests. In a democracy, the majority wins. You can see who wins here, its not that because your point is irrelevant, its because you are the minority, and although you have a voice, it's a smaller voice than the majority.[/QUOTE] That's why Democracies suck and America is not, in fact, a democracy. [editline]09:01PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zareox7;18769471]A piece of paper you can get nearly anywhere for very cheap, if not free. A pen you can borrow from anywhere, I have tons laying all over. A stamp you can purchase at a Post office for a few cents. An envelope can be purchased at nearly any store and can probably be given to you for very cheap at the post office as well. All in all, you just made a difference by writing a letter to the state, thus helping change. If you are too poor for this, I don't see why you're surfing the web right now.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about leaving the country, you tool. and constituencies are just people who get you elected. Petitions, protesting, writing to your congressman. it doesn't work anymore. [editline]09:03PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zareox7;18769395]I call you out on the history part sir, you obviously don't know it because otherwise you would know that all of today's societies are based on ancient civilizations one way or another, and the base ideas are still the same. Times have changed yes, but you still have greedy bastards trying to reach the top of the triangle and the poor workers getting walked on at the bottom.[/QUOTE] You didn't prove anything...

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18769461]it is if you look at it that vaguely.[/QUOTE] No, America's form of government is based on ancient Greek and Roman ideals. You don't know anything about political history, do you?

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769369]It's still the best kind of government, in my mind and in theory. So, as you can now see, I don't support the tyrannical rule of the majorty, nor do I support tyranny or a dictatorship in any way whatsoever (unless it's a case such as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus]Cincinnatus[/url]). I don't, however, think that democracy is not the most efficient form of government.[/QUOTE] you don't think it's not, what [QUOTE=Zareox7;18769395]I call you out on the history part sir, you obviously don't know it because otherwise you would know that all of today's societies are based on ancient civilizations one way or another, and the base ideas are still the same. Times have changed yes, but you still have greedy bastards trying to reach the top of the triangle and the poor workers getting walked on at the bottom.[/QUOTE] and you think plato would fix all of it, lol [QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769401]Yeah, it would. Name me a better type of leader than an intelligent, moral, honest person with the interests of the general population at heart. I would have to say that [B]you[/B] are the one who literally doesn't know anything about government structure, history, or politics. You pretty much summed it up.[/QUOTE] good thing we'll never ever get that type of person as a world leader ever anyway I know what religion this country was REALLY founded on: [url]http://ultraxs.com/image-37E0_4B1C0D33.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18769479]You didn't prove anything...[/QUOTE] Yes he did, he said that in ancient and modern times alike, poor minorities have been bossed about by rich majorities.

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769550]No, America's form of government is based on ancient Greek and Roman ideals. You don't know anything about political history, do you?[/QUOTE] source please bro. greece was a true blue democracy and i forget what rome is, but i'm p sure they weren't both representative republics.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18769479]That's why Democracies suck and America is not, in fact, a democracy. [editline]09:01PM[/editline] I'm talking about leaving the country, you tool. and constituencies are just people who get you elected. Petitions, protesting, writing to your congressman. it doesn't work anymore. [editline]09:03PM[/editline] You didn't prove anything...[/QUOTE] Representative democracy is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people. Representative democracy is also known as Indirect Democracy, which the US is, if you didn't realize, electing officials to represent the people. [QUOTE=Zareox7;18768976]I'm saying if you don't respect the nation you live in, good or bad, and [b]you don't bother to do anything about it, good or bad[/b], why are you even living here?[/QUOTE] You think that changing is easy? Leaving a nation can be incredibly hard, yes, but it can be done. How about the mass immigration into the U.S. in early 20th century? All of those people were often piss poor and yet they sold everything and left to come to a better place. If you don't like it here, either do something about it or sell all your shit and leave.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769223]*Sigh* Never bring politics and religion into a conversation... and we did both. As for the Athiests here, in a democracy, you're never going to satisfy every single person living there. Obviously people aren't going to like something. If you remove 'under god' its going to anger a lot of people who liked old traditions and probably Christians, if we leave it, we're going to anger a small amount of people that are athiests. In a democracy, the majority wins. You can see who wins here, its not that because your point is irrelevant, its because you are the minority, and although you have a voice, it's a smaller voice than the majority.[/QUOTE] This is why a constitution is nessasary in any democracy, as it is obvious that the most reasonable way of coming to a decision among many men is through a majority vote, yet the fact that a majority of people are in favor of something dose not make it right. It is not the proper purpose of government to protect peoples feelings, but to protect the rights of individuals, and arbitrate disputes. Regardless of what a majority decides they do not have to right to vote away the rights of others.

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769575]Yes he did, he said that in ancient and modern times alike, poor minorities have been bossed about by rich majorities.[/QUOTE] This is true how is that relevant?

It's optional to say 'under god' in my school.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18769577]source please bro. greece was a true blue democracy and i forget what rome is, but i'm p sure they weren't both representative republics.[/QUOTE] In Rome: [B]Ancient Roman political position = modern American political position[/B] Consul = President Praetor = General of Armed Forces/Secretary of State Tribune = Senate Plebeian Council = House Governor = Governor and so on... So, yeah, we're pretty much basing our system of government on the Romans.

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769686]In Rome: [B]Ancient Roman political position = modern American political position[/B] Consul = President Praetor = General of Armed Forces/Secretary of State Tribune = Senate Plebeian Council = House Governor = Governor and so on... So, yeah, we're pretty much basing our system of government on the Romans.[/QUOTE] i asked for a source not something you pulled out of your ass/what you think each government is all about.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;18769653]This is true how is that relevant?[/QUOTE] Because the other person said that Ancient governments are totally wrong and would not work today because of the drastic difference in modern and ancient societies, to which he pointed out that the differences are not as drastic as the other person would assume. [editline]02:13PM[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18769577]greece was a true blue democracy and i forget what rome is, but i'm p sure they weren't both representative republics.[/QUOTE] Greece went through a huge number of stages. Some of the forms of government they had were: Aristocracy Tyranny Democracy Oligarchy Democracy was only a small part of their huge, diverse political history. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18769701]i asked for a source not something you pulled out of your ass/what you think each government is all about.[/QUOTE] Holy fucking Christ. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_rome#Government[/url] If you click each position's name, you'll find it takes you to another page where it parallels the ancient position to the modern position. I'm done with this thread. You and Urkel don't know what you're talking about. Zareox is pretty much the only one who gets it.

wikipedia is a great unbiased source thanx!!!!

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769703]Because the other person said that Ancient governments are totally wrong and would not work today because of the drastic difference in modern and ancient societies, to which he pointed out that the differences are not as drastic as the other person would assume. [editline]02:13PM[/editline] Holy fucking Christ. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_rome#Government[/url] If you click each position's name, you'll find it takes you to another page where it parallels the ancient position to the modern position. I'm done with this thread. You and Urkel don't know what you're talking about. Zareox is pretty much the only one who gets it.[/QUOTE] so you give me a wikipedia article. lolling, okay bro i'm glad you're not gonna be here.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18769800]so you give me a wikipedia article. lolling, okay bro i'm glad you're not gonna be here.[/QUOTE] Last thing before I go: [url]http://rome.mrdonn.org/senate.html[/url] There, there's an Ancient Rome for Kids website (it's not from wikipedia lolololol), if you can't interpret that or if you manage to take that out of context, then I'm genuinely at a loss for words.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769610] You think that changing is easy? Leaving a nation can be incredibly hard, yes, but it can be done. How about the mass immigration into the U.S. in early 20th century? All of those people were often piss poor and yet they sold everything and left to come to a better place. If you don't like it here, either do something about it or sell all your shit and leave.[/QUOTE] Yes because living in poverty, getting on a boat, floating across the ocean, and immediately living in another country is exactly how it works these days. :downs:

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769610]Representative democracy is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people. Representative democracy is also known as Indirect Democracy, which the US is, if you didn't realize, electing officials to represent the people.[/quote] Are you one of the people who think a command and market economy are the only economies around? that is absolute bullshit, an indirect democracy is the bastardized version of a republic let me quote some old saggy guy with john Lennon glasses Women - "What have you given us?" old dude - "A republic, ma'am, if you can keep it" know who that was? Ben Fuck Franklin. [quote]You think that changing is easy? Leaving a nation can be incredibly hard, yes, but it can be done. How about the mass immigration into the U.S. in early 20th century? All of those people were often piss poor and yet they sold everything and left to come to a better place. If you don't like it here, either do something about it or sell all your shit and leave.[/QUOTE] Mexicans: north (america) south (Guatemala) I'd go north. Immigration, in all honesty, doesn't prove shit. [editline]09:21PM[/editline] [QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769686]In Rome: [B]Ancient Roman political position = modern American political position[/B] Consul = President Praetor = General of Armed Forces/Secretary of State Tribune = Senate Plebeian Council = House Governor = Governor and so on... So, yeah, we're pretty much basing our system of government on the Romans.[/QUOTE] It goes deeper then organization.

[QUOTE=Novistador;18769615]This is why a constitution is nessasary in any democracy, as it is obvious that the most reasonable way of coming to a decision among many men is through a majority vote, yet the fact that a majority of people are in favor of something dose not make it right. It is not the proper purpose of government to protect peoples feelings, but to protect the rights of individuals, and arbitrate disputes. Regardless of what a majority decides they do not have to right to vote away the rights of others.[/QUOTE] You're correct, the majority is not always right. But it's better than one leader deciding that his rule is the only rule and his decisions are always right. At least with the idea of majority votes win, the minority can still sway some in the majority to change.

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769842]Last thing before I go: [url]http://rome.mrdonn.org/senate.html[/url] There, there's an Ancient Rome for Kids website (it's not from wikipedia lolololol), if you can't interpret that or if you manage to take that out of context, then I'm genuinely at a loss for words.[/QUOTE] so because both rome and usa used some form of republic = rome founded usa government. it's not like that bro.

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769703]I'm done with this thread.[/QUOTE] Good idea

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;18742631]It's blatantly unconstitutional as it infringes on separation of church and state, and it was only added during the Cold War by some priest because back then if you were an atheist you were considered a Russian red commie who wanted to burn the capitalist pigs. Goddammit, america. Same goes for the motto "In God We Trust" now that I think about. Fff-[/QUOTE] What are you, some kind of russian red commie that wants to burn us capitalist pigs?

[QUOTE=Zareox7;18769881]You're correct, the majority is not always right. But it's better than one leader deciding that his rule is the only rule and his decisions are always right. At least with the idea of majority votes win, the minority can still sway some in the majority to change.[/QUOTE] Tyranny of the majority is a dangerous thing. IT happens too often. And the difference is not just DEMOCRACY or DICTATOR

[QUOTE=SantanaDVX;18769175] the [B]smart[/B] should be in power, with the interests of the general public at heart.[/QUOTE] Ah yes the smart. All the dumb people at my school can all just bugger off.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;18753882]Like separation of church and state?[/QUOTE] Yes but as well as being primarily a christian nation to begin with. Basing ones ideals off of a religion isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's how one puts them into practice.

[QUOTE=Frozen_Fish;18743843]My next door neighbor is luring children to his basement to rape and murder them, but why should I care it doesn't affect me :downs:[/QUOTE] Yes...your point being?