If you're talking about what you're experiencing right now, that'd be an interesting discussion but if you take the thread title just as it is, I mean...come on.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;33033992]If you're talking about what you're experiencing right now, that'd be an interesting discussion but if you take the thread title just as it is, I mean...come on.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about what I'm experiencing right now. Is it real or a just a dream?
The thing is, I could say this is all a figment of my imagination and that this is a dream. There's no proof to the contrary, and there's no proof to say that you exist. It works the other way, too, in that you could say this all is a figment of your imagination and that this is your dream. There is nothing I could say or do that could prove that I exist to you, while I know that I exist.
[QUOTE=demoniclemon;33033107]Nothing is real, you don't exist, I don't exist, nobody exists. We are programs in a large computer and we are simply programmed to think we are real. But to the universe above us, they are programmed to think they exist, and it goes on and on and on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=demoniclemon;33033107]Play a video game, any video game. They think their reality is real. Now, you, me, and everyone is is a player character for the player character above us.[/QUOTE]
Programs don't think. Characters in video games don't think at all, they have if-then based logic. Just the fact that I can think of something [i]just because I can[/i] disproves what you just said. They don't think their reality is real because they literally can't.
Machines and programs are not sentient, it is simple pseudo-intelligence.
Everything is as real as it needs to be for me. I don't really have any reason to believe that everything is just an illusion except to mentally masturbate.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;33034226]Programs don't think. Characters in video games don't think at all, they have if-then based logic. Just the fact that I can think of something [i]just because I can[/i] disproves what you just said. They don't think their reality is real because they literally can't.
Machines and programs are not sentient, it is simple pseudo-intelligence.[/QUOTE]
what about programs that modify themselves to evolve?
[QUOTE=demoniclemon;33033176]Play a video game, any video game. They think their reality is real. Now, you, me, and everyone is is a player character for the player character above us.[/QUOTE]
lines of code do not have emotion
or thoughts
or anything at all
[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;33034339]what about programs that modify themselves to evolve?[/QUOTE]
Since when has this happened? That'd be pretty amazing and I'd love to see it, but sadly, it hasn't been done yet.
A program will only evolve if you tell it to, so really it isn't true evolution, it's a modification.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;33034477]Since when has this happened? That'd be pretty amazing and I'd love to see it, but sadly, it hasn't been done yet.
A program will only evolve if you tell it to, so really it isn't true evolution, it's a modification.[/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure the idea of a program that writes and rewrites itself to make it better has been around a long time
with proper usage and coding i'm sure it could evolve into something, although a personality with our current technology might be asking a bit too much
honestly its impossible to prove by any means that everything isn't real because its you know... an illogical, insane, impossible statement. If everything wasn't presently real, then [B]how the hell do you exist to begin with[/B].
"But what if?" is NOT good enough, either. However, the idea of the world being the sims of another greater universe is possible, however it would require insanely advanced technology/magic/whatever to begin with and even then, that doesn't mean things aren't real, we'd exist, in a massive simulation. The likely hood of this however is very minuscule to boot, how are we self aware if we are programs? Unless we're a different form of simulation, one of which would involve creation within a small space and a controller, however, I personally believe that is far fetched. If that's your cup of tea though, then I don't mind. Believe what is logical, not what is self contradicting and irrational.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034513]honestly its impossible to prove by any means that nothing is real because its you know... an illogical, insane, impossible statement. If nothing was present, then [B]how the hell do you exist to begin with[/B].[/QUOTE]
thats like saying if you have nothing, then you have something to begin with.
[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;33034518]thats like saying if you have nothing, then you have something to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I worded that wrong.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
Sorry.
[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;33034502]i'm pretty sure the idea of a program that writes and rewrites itself to make it better has been around a long time
with proper usage and coding i'm sure it could evolve into something, although a personality with our current technology might be asking a bit too much[/QUOTE]
Yes the idea has been around since binary, but it hasn't been done for one simple reason.
Machines, at the most basic level, are just a bunch of 1's and 0's. 1 for on, 0 for off. You can't ask a bunch of 1's and 0's to make 0.5 (essentially a "maybe"). And until machines can decide that [i]maybe[/i] they should or shouldn't do something, and somehow become self-aware, they are not alive.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;33034590]Yes the idea has been around since binary, but it hasn't been done for one simple reason.
Machines, at the most basic level, are just a bunch of 1's and 0's. 1 for on, 0 for off. You can't ask a bunch of 1's and 0's to make 0.5 (essentially a "maybe"). And until machines can decide that [i]maybe[/i] they should or shouldn't do something, and somehow become self-aware, they are not alive.[/QUOTE]
Self aware computer seems illogical to me, and the number one reason I believe that our existence is physical and not simulated by the fact that we ourselves are self aware. If it can't be self aware, how can we?
As a sci-fi plot, its awesome. In reality, its silly.
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
The biggest question is, if you program it to be self aware, is it [I]truly[/I] self aware?
[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;33034502]i'm pretty sure the idea of a program that writes and rewrites itself to make it better has been around a long time[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that's not how programming works. Programs require creators, not random mutations. One wrong change will cause the program to crash.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33034622]Yeah, but that's not how programming works. Programs require creators, not random mutations.[/QUOTE]
A lot of good info related to that topic is here.
[url]http://www2.econ.iastate.edu/tesfatsi/holland.gaintro.htm[/url]
I think, therefore I am.
But really, if you want to get as deep and philosophical as this, nothing is real and nothing is debatable. You can't really argue about these things because we never might be sure. There are so many questions we can't answer and so much that we don't know, nothing could be real.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33034622]Yeah, but that's not how programming works. Programs require creators, not random mutations. One wrong change will cause the program to crash.[/QUOTE]
You know, lets say the world is a gigantic 'perfect, bug free self aware' simulation. That simulation would require creators that understood their brains to such an advanced way, that they created a massive brain that is able to dream, and rewrite itself, grow, and evolve. But this seems like an insane idea, as if it was self aware but constantly dreaming, how can we control ourselves consciously without being drones? And how do you even GET there to begin with?
[editline]30th October 2011[/editline]
And I'm just adding to my own argument by using other peoples statements here.
"real" is a man made concept and term - so if nothing is real the term wouldn't have any point of existing, ergo this debate wouldn't either
therefore, yes, there are "real" things in the world
I really expected somebody to make a Bohemian Rhapsody reference by the second post.
Well, reality as we percieve it is really just our brain's interpretation of electrical signals.
[QUOTE=Rethill34;33036809]Well, reality as we percieve it is really just our brain's interpretation of electrical signals.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, if your sight, feel, smell and hearing all get turned off, then there is no world to you.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034649]You know, lets say the world is a gigantic 'perfect, bug free self aware' simulation.[/QUOTE]
Nothing is bug free, but okay.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034649]That simulation would require creators that understood their brains to such an advanced way[/QUOTE]
No it wouldn't. The creators could just use a simple subset of what they know, but to us it'd appear advanced.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034649]that they created a massive brain that is able to dream, and rewrite itself, grow, and evolve.[/QUOTE]
Why would a simulation need any of those?
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034649]But this seems like an insane idea, as if it was self aware but constantly dreaming, how can we control ourselves consciously without being drones?[/QUOTE]
It is an insane idea, you don't need a brain to create a simulation.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33034649]And how do you even GET there to begin with?[/QUOTE]
..Get where?
[QUOTE=Jookia;33041150]Nothing is bug free, but okay.
No it wouldn't. The creators could just use a simple subset of what they know, but to us it'd appear advanced.
Why would a simulation need any of those?
It is an insane idea, you don't need a brain to create a simulation.
..Get where?[/QUOTE]
It was a hypothetical scenario, of 'what if it WAS bug free?'. I imagine they'd have to replicate a giant brain in a way, that way it could be more self aware/self correcting. Obviously though, the brain in question is just a giant super-computer, but is self aware of its own self, letting itself change the simulation slowly... or something, thus I call it a brain.
and
[QUOTE=Jookia;33041150]..Get where?[/QUOTE]
Get to the point of actually creating something that advanced.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33041209]It was a hypothetical scenario, of 'what if it WAS bug free?'. I imagine they'd have to replicate a giant brain in a way, that way it could be more self aware/self correcting. Obviously though, the brain in question is just a giant super-computer, but is self aware of its own self, letting itself change the simulation slowly... or something, thus I call it a brain.
and
Get to the point of actually creating something that advanced.[/QUOTE]
Your hypothetical scenario is completely unnecessary to this chat as it doesn't actually argue a point, it's just fictional stories.
May i quote Descarte? I Think Therefore I Am. If i am thinking. I exist, In some form or part, In some way.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33041293]Your hypothetical scenario is completely unnecessary to this chat as it doesn't actually argue a point, it's just fictional stories.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm just insane. I guess.
Everything is real until proven otherwise.
Reality is not a theory, nor is it a hypothesis. It's an axiom.
[QUOTE=J!NX;33041319]Maybe I'm just insane. I guess.[/QUOTE]
The world is not hypothetical. Your situations are, so they have no place here.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
