[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32410417]bill maher is also a vaccine denialist[/QUOTE]
No he isn't
[QUOTE=valkery;32410622]What the hell you talking 'bout bro? Are you saying that humans aren't lending a great deal of a hand to what you call climate change?[/QUOTE]
No I'm not a climate change denier. I'm asking what religion has to do with it.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32410760]No I'm not a climate change denier. I'm asking what religion has to do with it.[/QUOTE]
In America, politics and religion run hand in hand. Most of the time, you can't tell one from another, which is very depressing.
having atheists in politics would be so amazing, but unfortunately the majority of voters are religious and god forbid anyone that isn't in your little theoretical club have any say in what direction the country goes in, so the chances of an atheist president and/or more openly atheist politicians is slim to none
A politician's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should have little to no influence on their governing decisions. As long an individual politician believes in the separation of church (or lack of one) and state, I'll be more likely to vote for them.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32410952]having atheists in politics would be so amazing, but unfortunately the majority of voters are religious and god forbid anyone that isn't in your little theoretical club have any say in what direction the country goes in, so the chances of an atheist president and/or more openly atheist politicians is slim to none[/QUOTE]
Seems to be an American thing.
[editline]21st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=valkery;32410937]In America, politics and religion run hand in hand. Most of the time, you can't tell one from another, which is very depressing.[/QUOTE]
But even so, not all of us live in America.
I ask again, what does climate change have to do with religious belief?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32410296]Surely forcing politicians to relinquish their religion is just as draconian?[/QUOTE]
I suppose you're right, but I believe the end result justifies the means. It also depends on how seriously the person takes their religion and a lot of other things, but as far as I can see religion has caused more harm than good in the past and is just an excuse for humanity's own ignorance. Atheist leaders would be more open-minded to a lot of things and the human race as a whole would be able to progress at a faster speed.
As long as a politician is level-headed and doesn't allow their religion-or lack of- to effect their decisions or political stance, I don't care whatever religion they follow.
For example, I didn't know that Jack Layton(a awesome Canadian politician that died recently) was a Roman Catholic until recently, and it made no difference (I believe) on his decisions.
The separation of Church and State is very important.
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;32411468]Atheist leaders would be more open-minded to a lot of things and the human race as a whole would be able to progress at a faster speed.[/QUOTE]
This isn't true.
Just because you're an atheist it doesn't mean you're more logical or open-minded.
I'd go so far to say as it's a passive-aggressive way to insult theists.
What is far more worrying is that under half of Americans would vote for an Atheist.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32411591]This isn't true.
Just because you're an atheist it [b]doesn't mean you're more logical or open-minded.[/b]
I'd go so far to say as it's a passive-aggressive way to insult theists.[/QUOTE]
i like to think that atheists are at a regular level of logic and theists are at a below average level of logic
believing religious doctrines.. well, religiously, undeniably limits how open minded you will be, if you won't even consider that something against the word of god might not be all that bad. just look at debates about gay rights and abortion, they're all religiously influenced.
I believe areligious and agnostic types are optimum.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411664]i like to think that atheists are at a regular level of logic and theists are at a below average level of logic
believing religious doctrines.. well, religiously, undeniably limits how open minded you will be, if you won't even consider that something against the word of god might not be all that bad. just look at debates about gay rights and abortion, they're all religiously influenced.[/QUOTE]
elitism is a no-go area son
Abortion is generally a very grey area but gay rights don't harm anyone at all and should be approved. Religious people claim it to be a "sin" but it [b]physically[/b] harms no-one, and that is what I as a person value above most things. Families will come into dispute about things like these, i.e. a son mentions he is gay to his mother and father but that is only because we've been conditioned by the media and the government to believe it is wrong.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411664]i like to think that atheists are at a regular level of logic and theists are at a below average level of logic
believing religious doctrines.. well, religiously, undeniably limits how open minded you will be, if you won't even consider that something against the word of god might not be all that bad. just look at debates about gay rights and abortion, they're all religiously influenced.[/QUOTE]
Atheism is fine. Elitism is not.
More on topic:
I won't say that a candidate's enumerated political views are all that should be considered when it comes to election, but to discriminate between candidates based on their religion, or lack thereof, is dangerous.
I believe an Atheist could have a different perspective from, say, a Protestant. An American might think differently than a Brit. We, being shaped by our environment, will think differently based on our rearing and experiences. To say that an Atheist is more likely to agree with another Atheist's controversial beliefs is logical. To base your entire say in an election on that idea is not.
A wise man once said to the Church in Ephesus: "See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil."
Sound advice, in my opinion.
[i]There are too many sources of knowledge in the world for a man to be disregarded because he draws from one.[/i]
I really don't think it makes much difference either way. Considering most politicians are a bunch of crooks, I doubt they try to live a life like Jesus.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411664]i like to think that atheists are at a regular level of logic and theists are at a below average level of logic
believing religious doctrines.. well, religiously, undeniably limits how open minded you will be, if you won't even consider that something against the word of god might not be all that bad. just look at debates about gay rights and abortion, they're all religiously influenced.[/QUOTE]
That argument is very Christian- and American-centric. Not all religions are like that, and not all political arenas are like that.
In fact I'd go so far as to say that [b]you[/b] are the close-minded one here, as you're unwilling to consider that some religions might not be so opposed to critical thinking.
Saying that theists are less intelligent than atheists (or words to that effect), you're applying a sweeping generalisation to [b]billions[/b] of people, which is just as flawed as the theists who say the same about atheists.
Well, I don't think just Athiesm should/could be a big part in politics. Perhaps a variety of different religions could help change a few of the mindsets.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32412743]That argument is very Christian- and American-centric. Not all religions are like that, and not all political arenas are like that.
In fact I'd go so far as to say that [b]you[/b] are the close-minded one here, as you're unwilling to consider that some religions might not be so opposed to critical thinking.
Saying that theists are less intelligent than atheists (or words to that effect), you're applying a sweeping generalisation to [b]billions[/b] of people, which is just as flawed as the theists who say the same about atheists.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, but regarding the topic I think there should be more athiests in politicts, there allowed to do it I don't see why not, but an atheist who is tolerant and not like Kopimi over here who thinks everyone who is Christian is stupid.
As a Christian I wouldn't mind as
1. They are allowed to do it so why should I really care what their beliefs are
and
2. It would be interesting to hear someone elses opinion on a conflicting matter
I think very few Atheists are elected as American Christians are very close minded and only listen to people they like and believe that they say (basically dark ages stuff going on) though I hope this changes.
And if Christians in America are worrying about atheists running the country just because they don't believe what they believe in then that is pretty damn stupid.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411664]i like to think that atheists are at a regular level of logic and theists are at a below average level of logic
believing religious doctrines.. well, religiously, undeniably limits how open minded you will be, if you won't even consider that something against the word of god might not be all that bad. just look at debates about gay rights and abortion, they're all religiously influenced.[/QUOTE]
I'm a pretty hardline atheist but I have to disagree with you here. Faith itself is not a show of logic or reasoning. In some cases it can be just something one grew up with and a more personal faith does not impede a person in any way. There have been many great scientists who had faith and likewise a large number of idiots who were staunch atheists.
That said I don't think people really care here if our politicians are religious or not. I think though that the majority of them will be atheists as we only have roughly 10% of theists in the country.
I don't think that we need Atheists in politics per say but we need people that have the levelheadedness that can separate their private beliefs with the well being of others. I know many religious people that can easily put their religion behind the welfare of others and that's what we need in politics
Atheists are ignorant. They shouldn't be in politics.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Or at least most of them are...
Well if the majority of voters want a religious person governing them then a religious person should govern them. Talking about removing one factor from politics doesn't really make sense. Polities doesn't work when we take all posible factors that influence decisions away but rather works by considering every possible factor.
We will see more openly atheist politicians when the majority of people (in marginal seats/regions) want less religiously guided policies. Accept that the majority of America is Christian and want to vote for Christians.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Asking a politician to not let religion influence their policies is asking them to act contrary to their beliefs which would be a bit unfair to do.
[QUOTE=_NewBee;32424567]Atheists are ignorant. They shouldn't be in politics.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Or at least most of them are...[/QUOTE]
And theists aren't?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32410760]No I'm not a climate change denier. I'm asking what religion has to do with it.[/QUOTE]
Nothing. I was just saying that if someone denies a fact like a evolution, they've already proven themselves to be ignorant.
If you deny one fact, then you're probably the type of person to deny other facts.
The entire scientific community is on board with evolution, some dude with a law degree doesn't have the credentials to dispute that just because "god said so". They just have a lack of any scientific understanding at that point when they believe that scientific fact is a matter of opinion.
I don't really mind whether a leader is theist or atheist or something else, but I do believe that every government should be secular.
[QUOTE=_NewBee;32424567]Atheists are ignorant.[/QUOTE] Explain your extremely generalist statement.
[QUOTE=_NewBee;32424567]Atheists are ignorant. They shouldn't be in politics.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Or at least most of them are...[/QUOTE]
Not sure if serious.. but k
What business do you have calling someone ignorant when you believe in the existence of something that has no evidence?
Even worse is that you ignore logic/contradictory evidence to what you think, and assert your illogical beliefs as if they take priority over scientifically proven fact... and then have the gall to call the skeptics ignorant.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32411591]
Just because you're an atheist it doesn't mean you're more logical or open-minded.[/quote]
Yes it does. While the religious assert illogical claims with no evidence, the atheists use logic, reasoning, and scientific evidence to prove their claims.
Basically religious beliefs boil down to "Santa Claus for adults". There's no evidence, there's no reasoning to it, and there's actually evidence that directly contradicts religious claims, unless you want to look at every claim of religion in a metaphorical sense. Still wouldn't make it any less illogical though. Religious people believe in something because adults told them to, and because of the area they grew up in. If they grew up in another part of the world they'd believe in a different fairy tale. That isn't being open minded. Being open minded is coming up with an idea, testing it, comparing the results, and drawing a conclusion. Its knowing when to say "ok well this idea doesn't make any sense, the results don't add up with my hypothesis, time to scrap it and come up with another idea".
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;32409545]bush, a christian, said god told him to declare war on iraq
that must mean every christian thinks god is telling them to declare war on other countries[/QUOTE]
Not every, but some.
But he just gave you an example of how your statement of what you think doesn't correlate with reality.
Imagine if Paul, Bachmann, Perry, etc became president. Would their faiths not affect anything? Inb4 its them not the religion ignoring how you can grab all of the fucked up issues and ideals from the Bible.
It's interesting that our Prime Minister is an atheist and yet she won't acknowledge homosexuals' right to marry.
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