Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not? - General

[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;35468628]Extraterrestrials have never visited earth, you need to look up the definition of UFO buddy. UFO's are unidentified flying objects, not aliens. This could be anything from military aircraft to light reflected off a normal aircraft. UFO's are not evidence that extraterrestrials exist, I'm not in denial, you are. UFOs =/= Aliens.[/QUOTE] There are countless of ex-military people who have come out and told remarkable stories, and too many civilian witnessess and abductees to count. There's no proof of aliens and their technology because the government(s) is covering it all up. It is unknown what the origins of UFOs and Aliens that have come to Earth is. They could be ETs, they could be extra dimensional, they could be time travellers. Who knows? We can't just close our eyes and pretend nothing is happening.

I thought I saw a UFO once, but then it turned out I had rubbed my eyes too hard. - Pete Grigson Really, if there was intelligent life out there, why the hell would it do half-arsed exploration via flying? If they really wanted to explore and catalogue information about the earth, they would touch down, interact with the natives, enslave some and kill some others, set up a trading link, then a disease would inevitably spread. [quote]There's no proof of aliens and their technology because the government(s) is covering it all up.[/quote] Ok, stop making up crap. Why would the government do this? What the hell would they have to gain from this? How would a government be able to clamp down on information when it is hardly able to stop wikileaks or spies? The Soviet Union was secretive, but information leaked out about Holodomor when all their harvests failed, although suppressed, managed to get out. Having confidence in a governments ability to keep aliens secret from the general public is like having confidence in their ability to rule a country with no flaws. [quote]We can't just close our eyes and pretend nothing is happening. [/quote] Having an open mind is not a good thing on its own. The purpose of opening the mind is like that of the mouth, to close it down again onto something solid.

[QUOTE=deaded38;35121785]Holy shit guys. There IS evidence right in front of your faces. Lets see how many I can give... 1. UFO witnesses. If you even attempt to give me some bullshit excuse as to why UFOs aren't good evidence, you are in some huge [B]denial[/B] (which you guys are already in because you come up with the most ridiculous reasons as to why aliens haven't been to earth). Seriously, there are painting dating back to who the fuck knows when of UFOs. You're probably thinking "lol dat iz just coincidince lol". Again, huge case of denial. So maybe I can only come up with one. It's still better than "the universe is so big that could never happen dude". Give me some actual [I]evidence[/I] that proves me wrong or is more substantial than what I have.[/QUOTE] Great evidence. Eye witnesses (who are rarely even considered good evidence in a court of law, much less when dealing with something like this) and old paintings that kinda look like something that we think alien spaceships look like. [editline]8th April 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35479782] There's no proof of aliens and their technology because the government(s) is covering it all up. .[/QUOTE] What proof do you have that this is true?

Pretty boring if no aliens living on planets. Of course where the greys came from....properly the closet galaxy....

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35479782]There are countless of ex-military people who have come out and told remarkable stories, and too many civilian witnessess and abductees to count. There's no proof of aliens and their technology because the government(s) is covering it all up. It is unknown what the origins of UFOs and Aliens that have come to Earth is. They could be ETs, they could be extra dimensional, they could be time travellers. Who knows? We can't just close our eyes and pretend nothing is happening.[/QUOTE] I [B]highly [/B]doubt that. Lets assume the Americans have discovered some extraterrestrial technology and/or life, and lets assume this was when aliens and abductions were a hot topic, so in the... 1960s? So do you really think that not 1 employee or officer or anyone ambitious would have come on a TV show or something with some proof or anything? Do you really think the American government would be able to keep that a secret for [B]over[/B] 50 years? They cant even keep their CIA operations a secret, how do you think they are able to keep aliens and extraterrestrial technology a secret? I personally do think that there is extraterrestrial life but not on Earth, and they probably don't even know about us. In fact if you look at our scientific advancement we've only been "intelligent" for about ~80 years, and aliens are probably going to be really far ahead of us or really far behind since we were stuck on the same stage for [B]thousands[/B] of years, and the same "rule" is probably going to apply for other life forms as well.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35479782]There are countless of ex-military people who have come out and told remarkable stories, and too many civilian witnessess and abductees to count. There's no proof of aliens and their technology because the government(s) is covering it all up. It is unknown what the origins of UFOs and Aliens that have come to Earth is. They could be ETs, they could be extra dimensional, they could be time travellers. Who knows? We can't just close our eyes and pretend nothing is happening.[/QUOTE] I'm also curious as to why you believe extraterrestrials would want to visit earth, from far away we're just a normal water planet orbiting an average star. Don't tell me radiowaves that escaped the ionosphere, those haven't gotten very far, and I doubt there's any intelligent life close enough to pick them up. Not to mention there are "sightings" before radio was invented.

Two words, Belgium events

[QUOTE=ALX14;35483002]Two words, Belgium events[/QUOTE] That tells us nothing. Are you talking about the bus driver getting beaten to death? How is this related to anything in this thread?

[QUOTE=Robbi;35484064]That tells us nothing. Are you talking about the bus driver getting beaten to death? How is this related to anything in this thread?[/QUOTE] I was talking about the extraterrestrial appearence in belgium, I saw it on dyscovery chanel I guess, as anyone ever heard of that ? Google it, it must apear something

[QUOTE=ALX14;35484502]I was talking about the extraterrestrial appearence in belgium, I saw it on dyscovery chanel I guess, as anyone ever heard of that ? Google it, it must apear something[/QUOTE] Rather than argue any conclusive evidence in favour of Extraterrestrials, you just say "BELGIUM EVENTS" and assume this is a strong argument. If that was an argument, a roof tile and a brick make a house.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35480988]If they really wanted to explore and catalogue information about the earth, they would touch down, interact with the natives, enslave some and kill some others, set up a trading link, then a disease would inevitably spread.[/QUOTE] Why do you assume that they want us all dead? [QUOTE=Sobotnik;35480988]Why would the government do this? What the hell would they have to gain from this?[/QUOTE] They have absolutely nothing to gain by leaking it. Covering it up is much smarter: - You will gain monopoly on any alien technology. - The balance of society remains undisturbed. - Maybe they really don't know what they're dealing with. It's wisest to keep it under wraps until you do. [QUOTE=Robbi;35481694] So do you really think that not 1 employee or officer or anyone ambitious would have come on a TV show or something with some proof or anything? Do you really think the American government would be able to keep that a secret for [B]over[/B] 50 years?[/QUOTE] Information is slowly leaking all the time. You are not just listening. [QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;35481979]I'm also curious as to why you believe extraterrestrials would want to visit earth, from far away we're just a normal water planet orbiting an average star. Don't tell me radiowaves that escaped the ionosphere, those haven't gotten very far, and I doubt there's any intelligent life close enough to pick them up.[/QUOTE] Come on, what's up with these questions? Can't you think at all on your own?? Is your imagination really that poor that I must come here and throw possible explanations at you?? Here, have some alternatives. Pick one: a) We have intelligent life. That's interesting to them. b) Our solar system is very close to theirs. c) They are exploring shitloads of planets. Ours is just one of many thousand others. Think - why did we humans explore lands and islands back in the past (and still today)? Using [I]our[/I] logic and common sense to disprove aliens, extra terrestrials who have developed completely seperately from us, makes NO SENSE AT ALL. We have NO IDEA what their goals are, how their technologies work, or what the point of their means is. Do you think a monkey thinks we humans make much sense to it?

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Come on, what's up with these questions? Can't you think at all on your own?? Is your imagination really that poor that I must come here and throw possible explanations at you?? Here, have some alternatives. Pick one: a) We have intelligent life. That's interesting to them. b) Our solar system is very close to theirs. c) They are exploring shitloads of planets. Ours is just one of many thousand others. Think - why did we humans explore lands and islands back in the past (and still today)? Using [I]our[/I] logic and common sense to disprove aliens, extra terrestrials who have developed completely seperately from us, makes NO SENSE AT ALL. We have NO IDEA what their goals are, how their technologies work, or what the point of their means is. Do you think a monkey thinks we humans make much sense to it?[/QUOTE] a) I don't see how it's possible from them to know there is intelligent life on Earth. b) Unlikely, but since we don't know how often life occurs it's not really debatable. c) Thousands? More like trillions, it's entirely possible that there are extraterrestrials exploring the galaxy. But for numerous different "races" to come and visit our planet constantly? Don't you find that odd, if there are sightings of numerous different races that intelligent life would be common? There are ~300 billion stars in the Milky Way, could you imagine how long it would take to just search every planet in the Milky Way galaxy? Or you know the more likely explanation that there aren't numerous different aliens species visiting us, and people just don't want to feel alone in the universe.

If we're all made of stardust, doesn't that make us extraterrestrial to Earth? I'd suppose so. Does it matter? Not really.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058]Why do you assume that they want us all dead?[/QUOTE] Well not just that, but disease is going to spread to them or us somehow. Some humans have reported shooting at or trying to attack "Aliens" in the past. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058]They have absolutely nothing to gain by leaking it. Covering it up is much smarter: - You will gain monopoly on any alien technology. - The balance of society remains undisturbed. - Maybe they really don't know what they're dealing with. It's wisest to keep it under wraps until you do.[/QUOTE] Gain a monopoly, then why are most governments more or less at the same technological level? If they are good at covering stuff up, how come technology seems to spread so fast? Furthermore, would it not benefit them if they leaked this information to everyone? It's like Spain keeping knowledge of the Americas secret from the rest of Europe. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058]Information is slowly leaking all the time. You are not just listening.[/QUOTE] Come on, I have an open mind. But I want the truth, not bullshit. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Come on, what's up with these questions? Can't you think at all on your own?? Is your imagination really that poor that I must come here and throw possible explanations at you?? Here, have some alternatives. Pick one: a) We have intelligent life. That's interesting to them. b) Our solar system is very close to theirs. c) They are exploring shitloads of planets. Ours is just one of many thousand others. [/QUOTE] Wel- [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058]Our solar system is very close to theirs.[/QUOTE] No, if they wanted to get here, it would take at least a couple of years travelling at the speed of light. If we assume a more realistic speed, they would take decades. I doubt they would spend that long travelling here to just zoom around to be conveniently seen by drunk or mad people and have little impact.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35500142] No, if they wanted to get here, it would take at least a couple of years travelling at the speed of light. If we assume a more realistic speed, they would take decades. I doubt they would spend that long travelling here to just zoom around to be conveniently seen by drunk or mad people and have little impact.[/QUOTE] If they are sufficiently advanced they could have invented some sort of FTL travel.

[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;35500204]If they are sufficiently advanced they could have invented some sort of FTL travel.[/QUOTE] Possibly, but still why would they go to the bother of coming here (Using possibly a lot of energy and matter) to just arse around by flying about to be spotted by a few stragglers?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35500297]Possibly, but still why would they go to the bother of coming here (Using possibly a lot of energy and matter) to just arse around by flying about to be spotted by a few stragglers?[/QUOTE] They are cooperating with the governments / They don't want everybody to freak out / they show themselves more and more gradually to see if we're ready for the whole truth / they are afraid of us / they have "strict orders" not to interfere.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35501473]They are cooperating with the governments / They don't want everybody to freak out / they show themselves more and more gradually to see if we're ready for the whole truth / they are afraid of us / they have "strict orders" not to interfere.[/QUOTE] Cooperating with governments. Just what levels of government? Some governments consist of everybody in the country. If they didn't want people to freak out, why do they let a small number see them? What?

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35501473]They are cooperating with the governments / They don't want everybody to freak out / they show themselves more and more gradually to see if we're ready for the whole truth / they are afraid of us / they have "strict orders" not to interfere.[/QUOTE]You're telling me that numerous governments are working together to a conceal a huge secret when most of them can barely agree on anything? Ok, sure.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058]Why do you assume that they want us all dead? They have absolutely nothing to gain by leaking it. Covering it up is much smarter: - You will gain monopoly on any alien technology. - The balance of society remains undisturbed. - Maybe they really don't know what they're dealing with. It's wisest to keep it under wraps until you do. [/quote] - Why is everyone at the same technological level (more or less) - I don't think the balance of society will drastically change if we discover extraterrestrial life, how would it change? Can you tell me that? - If the government has been keeping this a secret for, lets again assume since 1960s then they would know by now what they are dealing with. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Information is slowly leaking all the time. You are not just listening. [/quote] I [B]want[/B] to believe. This thing you are so confident that is real I find highly unlikely. Can you tell me why are you so certain of this? [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Come on, what's up with these questions? Can't you think at all on your own?? Is your imagination really that poor that I must come here and throw possible explanations at you?? [/quote] Because we want to know where you are getting your ridicilous claims from. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Here, have some alternatives. Pick one: a) We have intelligent life. That's interesting to them. b) Our solar system is very close to theirs. c) They are exploring shitloads of planets. Ours is just one of many thousand others. [/quote] a) How do they know we have intelligent life? Our radio waves have barely even scratched our galaxy and unless they zoom into every planet to manually view them for intelligent life, they don't know about us. b) How do you know our solar system is close to theirs? Where is their solar system? What secret knowledge do you have? c) Do you have the slightest clue how big our galaxy is? Shit loads does not even remotely cover the amount of stars and planets we have. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Think - why did we humans explore lands and islands back in the past (and still today)? [/quote] Because going from Europe to North America is a bit different than going from galaxy to galaxy. And colonialism, and as far as I know we are not colonial slaves to some aliens, then I think I can safely rule that option out. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35499058] Using [I]our[/I] logic and common sense to disprove aliens, extra terrestrials who have developed completely seperately from us, makes NO SENSE AT ALL. We have NO IDEA what their goals are, how their technologies work, or what the point of their means is.[/QUOTE] You say you have no idea what their goals are but you know where their home planet is?

Honestly, my opinion on if they are actually here, and what they are is: We don't know. I mean I guess that is the point of debating, but with the current knowledge we have of extraterrestrials its like looking into a pitch black hole, thinking you saw a small glimmer of light, and now we try to guess what that glimmer of light was. Was it a real alien? A government conspiracy? Are aliens actually here? How do they work? Are we like monkeys to them? Or are they just like us expect with some type of more advanced technology? Or are they godlike beings who have ascended into what seems unknown to us, simply toying with younger species? Who knows.

You are twisting my words and you have completely misunderstood what I'm talking about. I'm not saying what they are. I have no idea. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to assume that we know everything about potential ETs. I mean, just imagine if you invented a time machine and could go back to the dark ages. Would you just land in the middle of town square? You'd be burn at a stake and your time machine would be seized and destroyed. No - it would be a better idea to keep a distance and to very slowly acknowledge your existance. The first thing you would do would probably be to contact the smartest people in charge etc. And maybe you want to examine a person? Abduct one in the middle of the night at a remote location. That's the most discrete way of doing it. In conclusion: These dark ages natives would probably find your ways VERY unlogical and sense defying. "Why doesn't he just land here and say hello to everybody? Why has he come here? How does his machine work without a horse? I don't see any attached to it - conclusion: it can't work - so it's not real. What is this magic box thing? A computer? What is that, and why do you need one? I don't need one. That's a stupid thing. It was a real waste of energy of you to come here - I say this despite having ZERO knowledge about your machine, how it works, what your goal is, who you are, or where you're from." Try not to think like cavemen, Jesus...

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502131]You are twisting my words and you have completely misunderstood what I'm talking about. I'm not saying what they are. I have no idea. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to assume that we know everything about potential ETs. I mean, just imagine if you invented a time machine and could go back to the dark ages. Would you just land in the middle of town square? You'd be burn at a stake and your time machine would be seized and destroyed. No - it would be a better idea to keep a distance and to very slowly acknowledge your existance. The first thing you would do would probably be to contact the smartest people in charge etc. And maybe you want to examine a person? Abduct one in the middle of the night at a remote location. That's the most discrete way of doing it. In conclusion: These dark ages natives would probably find your ways VERY unlogical and sense defying. "Why doesn't he just land here and say hello to everybody? Why has he come here? How does his machine work without a horse? I don't see any attached to it - conclusion: it can't work - so it's not real. What is this magic box thing? A computer? What is that, and why do you need one? I don't need one. That's a stupid thing. It was a real waste of energy of you to come here - I say this despite having ZERO knowledge about your machine, how it works, what your goal is, who you are, or where you're from." Try not to think like cavemen, Jesus...[/QUOTE] There's a significant difference between a time traveler and an ET. If an ET was advanced enough to travel to Earth, he doesn't need to fear us. His technology would be so advanced if we tried to attack him it would be like trying to destroy a tank by throwing sponges at it. They have nothing to fear, if an ET wanted to visit Earth undetected, it very well could.

[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;35502552]There's a significant difference between a time traveler and an ET. If an ET was advanced enough to travel to Earth, he doesn't need to fear us. His technology would be so advanced if we tried to attack him it would be like trying to destroy a tank by throwing sponges at it. They have nothing to fear, if an ET wanted to visit Earth undetected, it very well could.[/QUOTE] Missing the point.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502676]Missing the point.[/QUOTE] From what I understand you think they are trying to show themselves slowly for fear of retaliation.

Space is infinite my answer is Yes.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502131]You are twisting my words and you have completely misunderstood what I'm talking about. I'm not saying what they are. I have no idea. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to assume that we know everything about potential ETs. I mean, just imagine if you invented a time machine and could go back to the dark ages. Would you just land in the middle of town square? You'd be burn at a stake and your time machine would be seized and destroyed. No - it would be a better idea to keep a distance and to very slowly acknowledge your existance. The first thing you would do would probably be to contact the smartest people in charge etc. And maybe you want to examine a person? Abduct one in the middle of the night at a remote location. That's the most discrete way of doing it. In conclusion: These dark ages natives would probably find your ways VERY unlogical and sense defying. "Why doesn't he just land here and say hello to everybody? Why has he come here? How does his machine work without a horse? I don't see any attached to it - conclusion: it can't work - so it's not real. What is this magic box thing? A computer? What is that, and why do you need one? I don't need one. That's a stupid thing. It was a real waste of energy of you to come here - I say this despite having ZERO knowledge about your machine, how it works, what your goal is, who you are, or where you're from." Try not to think like cavemen, Jesus...[/QUOTE] Because Galilei, Newton, Darwin, Da Vinci, Tesla, Halley, Herschel, Hubble, Sagan, Hawking, Dawkings, DeGrasse and Einstein were all contacted by aliens and kept it as a secret but slowly let us know about them so we can later embrace them. Alrighty then. And also Yumyumbublegum pretty much said all that was needed to say.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502131]You are twisting my words and you have completely misunderstood what I'm talking about. I'm not saying what they are. I have no idea. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to assume that we know everything about potential ETs. I mean, just imagine if you invented a time machine and could go back to the dark ages. Would you just land in the middle of town square? You'd be burn at a stake and your time machine would be seized and destroyed.[/QUOTE] No, you complete foppish tosspot fool. You nose squashing, almond eating savoy cabbage onion eyed blasted wet fart. Firstly, the dark ages were not "DARK", you are ignorant of life from that time, completely ignorant. When people make uneducated comments on history this awful, I feel the need to puncture my testicles with a safety pin. Let us say you landed in some town square. Firstly, you would be treated with curiosity rather than hate. Why the hell would they kill you? People then would want to find out things about you. Some would assume you were either a god or an angel (Depending on the year and location). They certainly would not just kill you outright. Burning would not even become a popular method of execution until much much later. Finally, nobody would destroy the machine. Most likely they would try to keep it as a relic of some sort. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502131]These dark ages natives would probably find your ways VERY unlogical and sense defying. "Why doesn't he just land here and say hello to everybody? Why has he come here? How does his machine work without a horse? I don't see any attached to it - conclusion: it can't work - so it's not real. What is this magic box thing? A computer? What is that, and why do you need one? I don't need one. That's a stupid thing. It was a real waste of energy of you to come here - I say this despite having ZERO knowledge about your machine, how it works, what your goal is, who you are, or where you're from."[/QUOTE] Dark age natives is sure a good way to describe somebody in Early Medieval Europe. Not like society was still trying to carry on in the Roman fashion. (For example some towns in France still had Latin speakers and senates until the 700s) Secondly, there was a plenty number of machines that work without a horse. People didn't think Mangonels or waterwheels were magical, and they certainly worked out how early firearms worked. Finally, they would not assume you were there for no reason. If religious, maybe a godlike figure. If human (Most likely) they would assume you had come to trade or to speak with the local lord. [QUOTE=Rad McCool;35502131]Try not to think like cavemen[/QUOTE] We are thinking the same way the people who developed the computer or discovered Quantum physics did. We use the same methodology for acquiring knowledge. Stop ignoring evidence and inventing reasons to think aliens have visited here. If they had, WE WOULD KNOW.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35503033]No, you complete foppish tosspot fool. You nose squashing, almond eating savoy cabbage onion eyed blasted wet fart.[/QUOTE] I love you. Also Rad McCool, I would like to point out how you avoid all questions I've asked you and just continued on blabbering highly unlikely and completely irrational theories with no support or reason behind them while throwing insults.

I think its virtually impossible that intelligent life doesn't exist anywhere else in our unfathomably gigantic universe. That said there's no reason to think that we'll ever [I]encounter[/I] any. "Believing" that some higher race of intelligent beings "see" us or can "make contact" with us is really no more founded than being religious. Its a belief that has no basis other than random speculation. Thinking about it, it took a rather significant volume of time until earth/our solar system was capable of supporting complex life, let alone until human beings came around. It probably takes a great deal of time for "stable" planets and solar systems to form after a big bang, so its reasonable to believe that any other intelligent life may not be a whole lot more technologically capable than human beings, so the chances of encountering intelligent life is slim to none, at least for the time being. I think "believers" get too hung up on what they want to happen, and fail to realize just how desolate our position is, and just how unimaginably large the rest of the universe is. Our entire galaxy is [I]not even[/I] a grain of sand on a [I]planet[/I] of sand, compared to the size of the rest of the universe. If we're going to talk about "potential" semantics, talk about terraforming and colonization, things which may [I]actually[/I] be feasible.