Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not? - General

[QUOTE=Matt-;36257793]Apart from the trillions of galaxies each with their own billion solar systems each with their own planets. There is an extremely high chance that these planets have terraformed into something livable ( we've already identified planets that can sustain some carbon organisms in another galaxy ), and that organisms have evolved, even into single cell organisms, it's still extraterrestrial.[/QUOTE] There are actually less than 500 billion (estimated) galaxies in the observable universe.

OK, the next time someone says that there are certainly beings living in the universe besides Humans, I will challenge them. If they can't back up their claim, I will PM Swebonny. So please don't continue to make baseless claims.

Other lifeforms than those on earth? Definitely! Alien lifeforms on earth? No.

Well, what in the hell? Aliens? [I]Goddang Aliens?[/I] You people are just asinine, I tell you what. Aliens do not exist. Period. My idiot neighbor believes they do, but he's a nutcase. Can't even tell his wife is having an affair with another man. Talk about something a lot more fascinating, like propane! But heaven forbid you talk about those [I]other bastard gases[/I]. To hell with charcoal too.

Aliens do not exist [i]on this planet[/i]. There is a high chance for them to exist other places in the universe.

Seeing as how the universe is infinite, suggesting that we are the only intelligent/sentient/living things is just plain stupid. Do aliens exist? Yes, very much so. Have they visited Earth? I doubt it, it takes millions of years to get around galaxies. Most people assume that "Oh aliens are so super advanced and they probably look down to us as if we were little atoms and insignificant", but in reality I think aliens and humans are at the same level. Some may be more primitive, or advanced, or maybe the same level as us. But they may be just as afraid as the concept of us as we would be to them. Will there be mass hysteria, spase warz, genocide if we found aliens/vise versa, potentially. Would there be a revolution in humanity and there to be a whole new race of advanced beings? Potentially. There are just too many possibilities, jumping straight to "End of humanity" is just as stupid as not beliving in them.

I believe that somewhere in the universe there is at least one planet other than ours that have intelligent life-forms. To believe otherwise is ridiculous, the universe is too large for us to be completely alone (and remember, absence of proof =/= proof of absence). However, I doubt our species will survive long enough to achieve the kind of space flight technology that would allow our civilizations to meet (if the technology is possible at all, not to mention that the chances that we'd be able to contact another species within our own galaxy are astronomical at best).

The only argument against the existence of extra-terrastials is the fact that we haven't heard from any. Unless we for some reason are the first, or one of the first intelligent species there would have been countless species that developed radio millenia or even years ago. Would these not let there presence be known in the universe by radio or similar?

[QUOTE=oclictis1;36669494]Seeing as how the universe is infinite,[/QUOTE] We don't know that. [QUOTE=oclictis1;36669494]suggesting that we are the only intelligent/sentient/living things is just plain stupid. Do aliens exist? Yes, very much so.[/QUOTE] Again, so is claiming that they do exist because [B]we have no fucking idea[/B] if they are out there or not. 'tis not hard to grasp.

I believe if you think this one tiny particle in space we call "Earth" is the only pool of life your ignorant

[QUOTE=Robbi;36681858] Again, so is claiming that they do exist because [B]we have no fucking idea[/B] if they are out there or not. 'tis not hard to grasp.[/QUOTE] Do you honestly believe that whatever great force that created homo sapiens, and this planet, would just make one spot with sentient beings and leave the rest of the universe (Which you also claim is not infinite) alone, aside from stars and other planets that are completely able to hold a civilization?

[QUOTE=oclictis1;36691848]Do you honestly believe that whatever great force that created homo sapiens, and this planet, would just make one spot with sentient beings and leave the rest of the universe (Which you also claim is not infinite) alone, aside from stars and other planets that are completely able to hold a civilization?[/QUOTE] What great force? I'm betting he believes that [B]we don't know[/B] if there's sentient life out there. We have prediction models that say there might or might not be. Think of weather forecasts; cloudy with a 15% chance of sentience. Nothing is certain or proven. And he didn't claim that the universe is infinite. He said we don't know if it is. There's a lot of things we don't know.

[QUOTE=oclictis1;36691848]Do you honestly believe that whatever great force that created homo sapiens, and this planet, would just make one spot with sentient beings and leave the rest of the universe (Which you also claim is not infinite) alone, aside from stars and other planets that are completely able to hold a civilization?[/QUOTE] yes

[QUOTE=oclictis1;36691848]Do you honestly believe that whatever great force that created homo sapiens, and this planet, would just make one spot with sentient beings and leave the rest of the universe (Which you also claim is not infinite) alone, aside from stars and other planets that are completely able to hold a civilization?[/QUOTE] I always find it really amusing when people think "Oh he disagrees with me, then he must have the exact opposite opinion". Don't put words in my mouth, please. I am just saying we don't know, because nothing has been proven. There is no proof of if the universe goes on forever or not. There is also no proof of if there is alien life form out there. So I take the amazing view of saying "I don't know" - because that is the truth. We don't know. Get it? I'll repeat it one more time. [B]We don't know.[/B]

[QUOTE=Robbi;36696698]I always find it really amusing when people think "Oh he disagrees with me, then he must have the exact opposite opinion". Don't put words in my mouth, please. I am just saying we don't know, because nothing has been proven. There is no proof of if the universe goes on forever or not. There is also no proof of if there is alien life form out there. So I take the amazing view of saying "I don't know" - because that is the truth. We don't know. Get it? I'll repeat it one more time. [B]We don't know.[/B][/QUOTE] If there's no proof then the answer is no. Not "we don't know". You do in fact know. The answer is no, no aliens. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might say "It would be so sad to be in the universe all alone" and yes, it is sad. But it's fact.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36697965]If there's no proof then the answer is no. Not "we don't know". You do in fact know. The answer is no, no aliens. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might say "It would be so sad to be in the universe all alone" and yes, it is sad. But it's fact.[/QUOTE] Absence of proof is not proof of absence. There is no proof they exist, but there is no proof that they do not exist. Therefore, the only sensible answer is "we don't know". If we did know, that would be called "proof".

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36698772]Absence of proof is not proof of absence. There is no proof they exist, but there is no proof that they do not exist. Therefore, the only sensible answer is "we don't know". If we did know, that would be called "proof".[/QUOTE] Alrighty then. We also "don't know" if there is an invisible purple elephant floating above New York City. You can't disprove it though! It might be there!

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36698844]Alrighty then. We also "don't know" if there is an invisible purple elephant floating above New York City. You can't disprove it though! It might be there![/QUOTE] We have a shit ton of ways to find out if something's floating over NYC, not all of them require the use of the visible spectrum (radar, infra-red, a plane randomly crashing into it, to name a few). Stuff on another planet, however, more difficult to prove. All the devices we could use to prove that Aliens exist don't have the range to find any tangible proof of aliens. Something right on top of us, invisible or not, can and will be found with those very same devices.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36697965]If there's no proof then the answer is no. Not "we don't know". You do in fact know. The answer is no, no aliens. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might say "It would be so sad to be in the universe all alone" and yes, it is sad. But it's fact.[/QUOTE] This guy shouldn't be a gold member, he should be a shitty brown member. The concept of "we don't know" absolutely applies to this circumstance because there's no evidence for or against the existence of aliens. We live in a unfathomably large universe where even Richard Dawkins gave a relatively high probability of other worldly life in his book The God Delusion. It may not be advanced enough to contact us, but it is still life. Just a protip for King Tiger, please don't assume you are the sultan of the cosmos and you can whip factual information from your brain. You literally claimed, "But it's fact." No sir... No. TIDE GOES IN TIDE GOES OUT, YOU CANT SPLAIN THAT

[QUOTE=live4u120;36699081]This guy shouldn't be a gold member, he should be a shitty brown member. The concept of "we don't know" absolutely applies to this circumstance because there's no evidence for or against the existence of aliens. We live in a unfathomably large universe where even Richard Dawkins gave a relatively high probability of other worldly life in his book The God Delusion. It may not be advanced enough to contact us, but it is still life. Just a protip for King Tiger, please don't assume you are the sultan of the cosmos and you can whip factual information from your brain. You literally claimed, "But it's fact." No sir... No. TIDE GOES IN TIDE GOES OUT, YOU CANT SPLAIN THAT[/QUOTE] Don't insult my intelligence. You obviously have no concept of scientific reasoning if you think things need to be "disproved" in order for them not to exist. So until you stop claiming aliens exist or that "we don't know" if they exist, I claim that "we don't know" that a giant purple invisi-elephant is floating over New York.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36699171]Don't insult my intelligence. You obviously have no concept of scientific reasoning if you think things need to be "disproved" in order for them not to exist. So until you stop claiming aliens exist or that "we don't know" if they exist, I claim that "we don't know" that a giant purple invisi-elephant is floating over New York.[/QUOTE] [quote]We have a shit ton of ways to find out if something's floating over NYC, not all of them require the use of the visible spectrum (radar, infra-red, a plane randomly crashing into it, to name a few). Stuff on another planet, however, more difficult to prove. All the devices we could use to prove that Aliens exist don't have the range to find any tangible proof of aliens. Something right on top of us, invisible or not, can and will be found with those very same devices.[/quote] Missed that part.

Alright, new hypothesis. Underneath the surface of Mars, there are trillions of oompa loompas plotting to destroy all human civilization. [editline]9th July 2012[/editline] And the elephant was undetectable and could maneuver out of the way of any tracking technology because it moves just under the speed of light.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36699235]Alright, new hypothesis. Underneath the surface of Mars, there are trillions of oompa loompas plotting to destroy all human civilization.[/QUOTE] Oh, sure, that can't be proven... until all those mars rovers and satellites we seem to keep sending over there accidentally stumble over the secret chumba wumba entrance! Extend your range to a planet we can't easily send a satellite or two over to, and then you might have the beginnings of a valid argument.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36699307]Oh, sure, that can't be proven... until all those mars rovers and satellites we seem to keep sending over there accidentally stumble over the secret chumba wumba entrance! Extend your range to a planet we can't easily send a satellite or two over to, and then you might have the beginnings of a valid argument.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point. I was trying to prove to live4u120 that the inability to disprove something doesn't make it valid or "we don't know". Quite the contrary. It invalidates it and disproves it.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36699235]Alright, new hypothesis. Underneath the surface of Mars, there are trillions of oompa loompas plotting to destroy all human civilization. [editline]9th July 2012[/editline] And the elephant was undetectable and could maneuver out of the way of any tracking technology because it moves just under the speed of light.[/QUOTE] "I'm being constantly proven wrong so I'm going to violate the very laws of physics and reality to make a point until my opposition gets bored and goes back to watching Jurassic park". Seriously, is the concept of extra-terrestrial life, even tiny little microscopic ones on the complete opposite side of the universe, so offensive to you that you absolutely HAVE to prove that they don't exist by pulling shit from your ass? [editline]9th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;36699338]You're missing the point. I was trying to prove to live4u120 that the inability to disprove something doesn't make it valid or "we don't know". Quite the contrary. It invalidates it and disproves it.[/QUOTE] Do you have scientific backing on that or is that just your opinion?

Exterrestrials do not have to be intelligent beings outside of Earth. They can be simple bacteria which are not in Earth, and there is some limited evidence that nanobacteria have lived in Mars through the Allan Hills 84001 meteorite that landed in Antarctica. However it is still debated if it was biotic or abiotic as there are many variables that go against this claim.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36699347]"I'm being constantly proven wrong so I'm going to violate the very laws of physics and reality to make a point until my opposition gets bored and goes back to watching Jurassic park". Seriously, is the concept of extra-terrestrial life, even tiny little microscopic ones on the complete opposite side of the universe, so offensive to you that you absolutely HAVE to prove that they don't exist by pulling shit from your ass?[/quote] Calm down son. Do you have scientific backing on that or is that just your opinion?[/QUOTE] My position is the very basis of proof and scientific reasoning.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36699389]My position is the very basis of proof and scientific reasoning.[/QUOTE] I think it's time for some wiki magic: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance[/URL] Key quotes from the first article: "Whether the scientific community will accept a null result as evidence of absence depends on many things, including the detection power of the applied methods, and the confidence of the inference." "Philosophic arguments that depend on evidence of absence are commonly referred to in peer-reviewed literature as "noseeum arguments". The argument form is specifically inductive in that evidence is accumulated; as one collects a larger dataset the argument grows stronger. Some noseeum arguments are very strong, such as checking the fridge for milk and determining that there is none, since it is relatively easy to systematically remove every item from the fridge, verify that it is not milk, and visually inspect the empty space left over. At the other extreme are noseeum arguments about the existence, or lack thereof, of alien lifeforms. Since the universe is enormous relative to our known area, a noseeum argument stating that there are no alien lifeforms would be very weak." Key quote from the Second: "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan"]Carl Sagan[/URL] explains in his book [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World"]The Demon-Haunted World[/URL][/I]: [B]Appeal to ignorance[/B]: the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa. (e.g., [I]There is no compelling evidence that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_flying_object"]UFOs[/URL] are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe.[/I] Or: [I]There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.[/I]) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_evidence#cite_note-2"]"[/URL] Read the rest at your leisure, maybe you might find something I missed. EDIT: The point I'm making here, is that there are literally dozens of arguments that go either way, scientific and philosophic. If nobody can agree, then neither side is proven. Just as you say "There is no proof that aliens exist, therefore they do not", someone else can say "There is no evidence that aliens do not exist, therefore they do". Both are considered logical fallacies. Therefore, there is no proof for either side, therefore, WE. DO. NOT. KNOW.

The appeal to ignorance is a logical fallacy. [editline]9th July 2012[/editline] I also got a quote from the first article: "Evidence of absence is evidence of any kind that suggests (via certain types of inference or deduction) the non-existence or non-presence of something."

[QUOTE=Block;36692946]What great force? And he didn't claim that the universe is infinite. He said we don't know if it is. There's a lot of things we don't know.[/QUOTE] Want to know if the universe is infinite? "Dark matter", google it.