Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not? - General

[QUOTE=oclictis1;36704630]Want to know if the universe is infinite? "Dark matter", google it.[/QUOTE] Nope, you explain.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36699691]The appeal to ignorance is a logical fallacy. [editline]9th July 2012[/editline] I also got a quote from the first article: "Evidence of absence is evidence of any kind that suggests (via certain types of inference or deduction) the non-existence or non-presence of something."[/QUOTE] And in the very same article it states that Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence. Your [I]only[/I] evidence of absence is the absence of evidence. If you have any REAL evidence that aliens do not exist, say it. Because otherwise you have no actual argument.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36697965]If there's no proof then the answer is no. Not "we don't know". You do in fact know. The answer is no, no aliens. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might say "It would be so sad to be in the universe all alone" and yes, it is sad. But it's fact.[/QUOTE] Uhh.. Yeah... Just.. No. What you are saying is because there is not tea in that teacup on the table over there then there cannot be tea anywhere else in the universe. Also you need proof to be able to show that there are no extraterrestrials, at the moment we have none so what you are saying is complete bullshit. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] Please back up your claim of no alien life form. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36267140]If they can't back up their claim, I will PM Swebonny. So please don't continue to make baseless claims.[/QUOTE] How hypocritical. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=garry;32374814]One rule I would like to enforce is that if you're debating and state something as a fact - if challenged you need to produce proof. If you can't you get banned.[/QUOTE] So uh yeah. Give sources.

[QUOTE=Robbi;36707177]Uhh.. Yeah... Just.. No. What you are saying is because there is not tea in that teacup on the table over there then there cannot be tea anywhere else in the universe. Also you need proof to be able to show that there are no extraterrestrials, at the moment we have none so what you are saying is complete bullshit. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] Please back up your claim of no alien life form. How hypocritical. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] So uh yeah. Give sources.[/QUOTE] You can't prove negatives. This has already been discussed in this thread and many other in Mass Debate. I am not even making any claims. I have asked for evidence of aliens and so far nobody has provided any. Your tea cup analogy is flawed. I am saying that since there is no evidence of tea anywhere, there cannot be tea anywhere else in the universe. I'm not specifying that there aren't aliens in some certain place as you seem to be implying.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36707378]You can't prove negatives.[/QUOTE] Okay. Look into this imaginary teacup, do you see tea? No. Then there is no tea. Same goes with planets and life. You can explore a planet, in this example, Mars and we don't see life. Then we can pretty much confirm there is no life on Mars. Until we have done this with every planet in the universe then we will not know if there is no life. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36707378]I am not even making any claims.[/QUOTE] Well, what are these here? [QUOTE=King Tiger;36697965]If there's no proof then the answer is no. Not "we don't know". You do in fact know. [B]The answer is no, no aliens[/B]. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might say "It would be so sad to be in the universe all alone" and yes, it is sad. [B]But it's fact.[/B][/QUOTE] All dem claims, son. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36707378]I have asked for evidence of aliens and so far nobody has provided any.[/QUOTE] That is because there is none. [QUOTE=King Tiger;36707378]Your tea cup analogy is flawed. I am saying that since there is no evidence of tea anywhere, there cannot be tea anywhere else in the universe. I'm not specifying that there aren't aliens in some certain place as you seem to be implying.[/QUOTE] No it is not. Do you have evidence of there being no tea anywhere? Have you looked everywhere and checked for tea? Because maybe in those teacups you haven't looked into there might be tea somewhere hidden far away, but we don't know that so we can't say that there is no tea or there is tea. [sp]Replace teacup with planet and tea with life and bam, you have my arguament.[/sp] Again, 'tis not hard to grasp. [B]Next post better be with sources or I will take your suggestion and report people who do not post sources when asked.[/B]

[QUOTE=Robbi;36707636]Okay. Look into this imaginary teacup, do you see tea? No. Then there is no tea. Same goes with planets and life. You can explore a planet, in this example, Mars and we don't see life. Then we can pretty much confirm there is no life on Mars. Until we have done this with every planet in the universe then we will not know if there is no life.[/quote] This would lead a logical person to the conclusion that there is no tea. Hey, until we have checked every single planet for underground oompa loompas, we'll never be sure they don't exist! [quote]Well, what are these here? All dem claims, son.[/quote] These are not claims. They are proven facts. If there is no evidence for a thing, then it does not exist. This is simple logic. [quote]That is because there is none.[/quote] Which mean that they don't exist. [quote]No it is not. Do you have evidence of there being no tea anywhere? Have you looked everywhere and checked for tea? Because maybe in those teacups you haven't looked into there might be tea somewhere hidden far away, but we don't know that so we can't say that there is no tea or there is tea. [sp]Replace teacup with planet and tea with life and bam, you have my arguament.[/sp] Again, 'tis not hard to grasp.[/quote] You don't seem to understand the concept of proof or evidence. I cannot have proof of nonexistence. It is not possible for me to acquire such proof. I am not making a claim, it is a fact that if there is no proof of something then it does not exist. [quote][B]Next post better be with sources or I will take your suggestion and report people who do not post sources when asked.[/B][/QUOTE] Fine, have fun with that. The admins are smarter than both of us.

I think that there's life on other planets, but they're not here and we haven't found any yet.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708015]Blah blah[/QUOTE] I always find it really amusing how persons try to keep their argument up while clearly it has fallen. If this is a proven fact why can't you source? Also like the guy under me said, you don't have any evidence to support your claims that there is no life. Has the world looked everywhere? No Have we had some magical way of finding out if there is? No

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708015]These are not claims. They are proven facts. If there is no evidence for a thing, then it does not exist. This is simple logic.[/QUOTE] This is true. But when we say there is evidence for something, we're actually implying that we HAVE the evidence.

[QUOTE=Robbi;36708539]I always find it really amusing how persons try to keep their argument up while clearly it has fallen. If this is a proven fact why can't you source? Also like the guy under me said, you don't have any evidence to support your claims that there is no life. Has the world looked everywhere? No Have we had some magical way of finding out if there is? No[/QUOTE] I'm not sure why you have to argue in such a hostile manner. My argument is sound. You do not understand the basis of proof or evidence. In order for something to be true, there MUST be evidence of it. You admitted yourself that there is no evidence of aliens. Therefore, there are none. However, since you seem so adamant about me providing evidence for my "claims" (I have made none), I will give you this. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. There is my proof. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jookia;36708575]This is true. But when we say there is evidence for something, we're actually implying that we HAVE the evidence.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708774]I'm not sure why you have to argue in such a hostile manner. My argument is sound. You do not understand the basis of proof or evidence. In order for something to be true, there MUST be evidence of it. You admitted yourself that there is no evidence of aliens. Therefore, there are none. However, since you seem so adamant about me providing evidence for my "claims" (I have made none), I will give you this. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. There is my proof. [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.[/QUOTE] I think this is a communication problem. When they said there's no evidence for aliens, they meant that the scientific community as a whole has not found evidence to support the existence for aliens. Not that the evidence doesn't exist, somewhere out there in the cosmos.

[QUOTE=Jookia;36708883]I think this is a communication problem. When they said there's no evidence for aliens, they meant that the scientific community as a whole has not found evidence to support the existence for aliens. Not that the evidence doesn't exist, somewhere out there in the cosmos.[/QUOTE] OK... So you're telling me that there is NO evidence to support the claim that aliens exist? You say that the only evidence that exists is far away and that nobody has the evidence. Everywhere else in the world, that means IT DOESN'T EXIST.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708774]In order for something to be true, there MUST be evidence of it.[/QUOTE] Honestly, are you trolling? Nobody is saying anything is true. All we are saying is that we do not know. There might be life and there might not be life. WE DON'T KNOW.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708774]I'm not sure why you have to argue in such a hostile manner. My argument is sound. You do not understand the basis of proof or evidence. In order for something to be true, there MUST be evidence of it. You admitted yourself that there is no evidence of aliens. Therefore, there are none. However, since you seem so adamant about me providing evidence for my "claims" (I have made none), I will give you this. [B]Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. There is my proof.[/B] [editline]10th July 2012[/editline] I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.[/QUOTE] How many times and how many people have to say "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" for it to get through your skull? Absence of evidence is not proof of anything. A man who has lived an isolated life with no internet or literature or television or anything could say "I have never seen proof that elephants exist, therefore they do not". Would he be right? He has no access to anything that could prove him wrong, and he has no desire to actually try to prove himself wrong because he's so sure in his beliefs. Does that mean that Elephants do not exist? No, because he never actually bothered to check. That is you right now. You are so sure that Aliens do not exist, but you haven't actually bothered to check. And you can't check because the technology doesn't exist yet. You are not right. You are lazy. Find some actual proof that they do not exist. Until then, the only answer is "we don't know".

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36708954]OK... So you're telling me that there is NO evidence to support the claim that aliens exist? You say that the only evidence that exists is far away and that nobody has the evidence. Everywhere else in the world, that means IT DOESN'T EXIST.[/QUOTE] I'm only saying that we don't posess the evidence.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36709034]How many times and how many people have to say "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" for it to get through your skull? Absence of evidence is not proof of anything. A man who has lived an isolated life with no internet or literature or television or anything could say "I have never seen proof that elephants exist, therefore they do not". Would he be right? He has no access to anything that could prove him wrong, and he has no desire to actually try to prove himself wrong because he's so sure in his beliefs. Does that mean that Elephants do not exist? No, because he never actually bothered to check. That is you right now. You are so sure that Aliens do not exist, but you haven't actually bothered to check. And you can't check because the technology doesn't exist yet. You are not right. You are lazy. Find some actual proof that they do not exist. Until then, the only answer is "we don't know".[/QUOTE] What do you mean I have "never bothered to check"? Scientists have tried for decades to find alien life and so far they have found nothing. Through all of their efforts, they have exposed that there is, in fact, nothing to find.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36709499]What do you mean I have "never bothered to check"? Scientists have tried for decades to find alien life and so far they have found nothing. Through all of their efforts, they have exposed that there is, in fact, nothing to find.[/QUOTE] You could say the same thing about the Higgs Boson. Except we found it.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36709499]What do you mean I have "never bothered to check"? Scientists have tried for decades to find alien life and so far they have found nothing. Through all of their efforts, they have exposed that there is, in fact, nothing to find.[/QUOTE] Space is big. We're tiny. We haven't looked that far and finding smaller planets (like ours) is difficult. [QUOTE=Neil Degrasse Tyson]Life doesn't exist anywhere but earth? That's like filling a cup with ocean water and saying there aren't any whales in the ocean.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36709499]What do you mean I have "never bothered to check"? Scientists have tried for decades to find alien life and so far they have found nothing. Through all of their efforts, they have exposed that there is, in fact, nothing to find.[/QUOTE] Oh wow. What you just said is amazing. Do you have the slightest clue of how big the universe is? I'll show you some photos since you didn't check before posting here. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe[/url] [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/HubbleUltraDeepFieldwithScaleComparison.jpg[/url] - Photo from Hubble [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/2MASS_LSS_chart-NEW_Nasa.jpg[/url] This is just a [B]really really really really really really really really[/B] x10013006 small portion of what we can see and there's [B]A LOT[/B] we can't see. And we can't even check most of these planets for life. Have you read [I]anything[/I] on this subject or are you just blabbering something that comes out of your head?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36709499]What do you mean I have "never bothered to check"? Scientists have tried for decades to find alien life and so far they have found nothing. Through all of their efforts, they have exposed that there is, in fact, nothing to find.[/QUOTE] They have found planets that have the [I]potential[/I] to sustain life ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life#Extrasolar_planets[/url]). They can't confirm that they do have life because they're too far away for in-depth study, but it's far from "nothing".

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;36710188]They have found planets that have the [I]potential[/I] to sustain life ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life#Extrasolar_planets[/url]). They can't confirm that they do have life because they're too far away for in-depth study, but it's far from "nothing".[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal[/url] Also that. Not a lot but its a lot more than nothing.

[QUOTE=Robbi;36710376][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal[/url] Also that. Not a lot but its a lot more than nothing.[/QUOTE] Explain how that is evidence for aliens. Until anyone can actually give any evidence whatsoever to the existence of aliens, there is no reason to believe they exist.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36713003]Explain how that is evidence for aliens. Until anyone can actually give any evidence whatsoever to the existence of aliens, there is no reason to believe they exist.[/QUOTE] Yes, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[QUOTE=Jookia;36717121]Yes, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.[/QUOTE] Right, and it doesn't mean the purple oompa loompas don't exist either. I think they're out there! We just haven't found them yet.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36717157]Right, and it doesn't mean the purple oompa loompas don't exist either. I think they're out there! We just haven't found them yet.[/QUOTE] Could be. Seems highly unlikely though because for them to exist, you'd have to assume and think up a lot of things. Some planet would have to be just right for them to evolve to look like something of our fiction. That's why nobody believes there's oompa loompas out there, too many assumptions. Aliens (meaning "alien life", not the little green men or shit like that) on the other hand, not that many assumptions. All we have to assume is that our planet is not the only one that can sustain life. Even that isn't a big leap since there's nothing to suggest that it would be alone. We have models that predict things like how many planets there is out there and how many of those could sustain life. I haven't heard of any reason why Earth would be the only planet that can sustain life. We also have scientists working on how life could begin out of nonlife and things like panspermia. So that those planets that can sustain life, also could produce some. We might not know the exact chances for a planet to be able to sustain life, and to produce some. But we do know that it's possible and feasible. The assumptions made for the claim have been looked into and they don't look too bad. That's why people think there might be alien life but nobody thinks about a planet of oompa loompas. It's a general claim with few seemingly likely assumptions vs. a very specific claim which will have to assume a lot of unlikely things.

[QUOTE=Block;36717392]Could be. Seems highly unlikely though because for them to exist, you'd have to assume and think up a lot of things. Some planet would have to be just right for them to evolve to look like something of our fiction. That's why nobody believes there's oompa loompas out there, too many assumptions. Aliens (meaning "alien life", not the little green men or shit like that) on the other hand, not that many assumptions. All we have to assume is that our planet is not the only one that can sustain life. Even that isn't a big leap since there's nothing to suggest that it would be alone. We have models that predict things like how many planets there is out there and how many of those could sustain life. I haven't heard of any reason why Earth would be the only planet that can sustain life. We also have scientists working on how life could begin out of nonlife and things like panspermia. So that those planets that can sustain life, also could produce some. We might not know the exact chances for a planet to be able to sustain life, and to produce some. But we do know that it's possible and feasible. The assumptions made for the claim have been looked into and they don't look too bad. That's why people think there might be alien life but nobody thinks about a planet of oompa loompas. It's a general claim with few seemingly likely assumptions vs. a very specific claim which will have to assume a lot of unlikely things.[/QUOTE] But you can't prove that there aren't any oompa loompas. Therefore, they might exist. That's the point I'm trying to make. Using that knowledge, everything you can imagine is possible. There "might" be robo chicken dinosaurs on some distant planet. But since there is no proof, there's no reason to believe in their existence.

[img]http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/deepest-hole-in-the-world.jpg[/img] Look at what you dug yourself into King Tiger...

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36713003]Explain how that is evidence for aliens. Until anyone can actually give any evidence whatsoever to the existence of aliens, there is no reason to believe they exist.[/QUOTE] Sigh... Seeing as you thought that we have checked out every single planet in the universe I will just not bother with your stupidity anymore. Also since you probably still think that I am saying that is evidence, I'm not. I'm just saying that this is a lot more than no evidence, but it's not anything close to solid evidence. And again, for the 500th time, nobody is saying there's life out there. We are saying we do not know.

[QUOTE=Robbi;36720318]Sigh... Seeing as you thought that we have checked out every single planet in the universe I will just not bother with your stupidity anymore.[/quote] Fine by me. If you "don't want to bother" with logic and reasoning anymore, I won't stand in your way.

If we remove religion from this argument you can come to a theory like this: It is possible for planets to exist. (Example, our planetary system.) It is possible for life to exist on these planets. (Example, life on earth) The universe is infinite. In an infinite situation, all outcomes are certain. Therefore, there is an infinite amount of life on an infinite amount of planets infinitely. That is of course, if the universe is infinite and all religious claims are false. So, if science ever comes to the conclusion that the universe is infinite, you can bet that they exist.