Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not? - General

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36984712]Don't be stupid. You already know where I've posted my evidence, and you already know what my argument is. I'm disinclined to reply to more posts like this. You have no argument, and you're wasting my time.[/QUOTE] The origins of life are still a hazy area. I still don't feel I should make a claim based off a sample of one.

I'm sure aliens do exist. If they don't it's a waste of space, literally

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36984712]Don't be stupid. You already know where I've posted my evidence, and you already know what my argument is. I'm disinclined to reply to more posts like this. You have no argument, and you're wasting my time.[/QUOTE] How do you know there are aliens in the milky way?

[QUOTE=Jookia;36986852]How do you know there are aliens in the milky way?[/QUOTE] He isn't 100% sure. Unless he has solid evidence nobody knows for sure, no matter how high the odds are.

It's 100% sure that life exists in the Universe, but it's not 100% sure that life exists anywhere else in the Universe except on planet Earth. That is funny to be, but I get what you are saying with your argument above.

I've assumed good will up to this point, but now I'm pretty sure I'm just being trolled. The way you guys are acting goes beyond any sort of reason or logic, so I think you're either incapable of it, or just fucking with me to see how worked up I get. That's fine; those are the rules of engagement on the internet. But you're not gonna learn anything that way.

Okay Smashmaster, since you clearly know more than anybody else on the subject, why aren't you busy lecturing scientists on the issue? [editline]29th July 2012[/editline] Also, how does the statement, "We don't know if there is other life, but it is probable." somehow hurt our scientific abilities?

[QUOTE=Falubii;36992141]Okay Smashmaster, since you clearly know more than anybody else on the subject, why aren't you busy lecturing scientists on the issue? [editline]29th July 2012[/editline] Also, how does the statement, "We don't know if there is other life, but it is probable." somehow hurt our scientific abilities?[/QUOTE] You have made a post composed entirely of fallacies. Good job. Reverse [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority]appeal to authority[/url] for the former question, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_fallacy]straw man[/url] for the latter.

[QUOTE=Smashmaster;36992320]You have made a post composed entirely of fallacies. Good job. Reverse [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority]appeal to authority[/url] for the former question, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_fallacy]straw man[/url] for the latter.[/QUOTE] Did misinterpret something? [QUOTE=Smashmaster;36967508]But what's the point of saying 'We don't know'? What do we gain from this?[/QUOTE] This seems to suggest we lose something by not claiming there is life.

[QUOTE=Blazyd;36981410]Smashmaster, please show us proof that life 100% currently exists outside of Earth.[/QUOTE] The question wasn't being directed at me but: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11039206[/url] So these little guys technically were outside of Earth, exposed to vacuum, radiation, etc and still managed to survive, a few of these in a comet with a bit more protection from radiation would probably thrive, enforcing the idea of panspermia. (you asked for life outside Earth, not extraterrestrial life :v:)

We agree that life outside of Earth is plausible, Smashmaster just seems to believe that it is scientifically proper to claim that life is elsewhere in our galaxy because of some probability calculations that don't actually prove anything. [QUOTE=Smashmaster;36968280]Nothing to base extraterrestrial life on? What have you been smoking? How about any of this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrasolar_planet[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemistry[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_habitability[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrobiology[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution[/url] The purpose of science is to gain knowledge. That's what the word 'science' means. Some knowledge must be inferred; when we cannot directly observe something, we can still learn about it. We are allowed to use our current knowledge to make inferences about the universe. In your short-sighted attempt to be "scientifically correct" you have missed the entire point of science, and failed to gain any useful knowledge. So, good job.[/QUOTE] It's funny that none of those links decisively prove anything. The way you list a lot of things does make your argument look more valid though, until you read any of it. Also, most astrobiologists would probably answer the question, "Is there extraterrestrial life?" the same way we would, "Probably." To suggest that we have somehow missed the point of science by simply avoiding making a truth claim based on lack of evidence is one of stupidest things I've ever heard. [QUOTE=Smashmaster;36967508]All the knowledge we have is subject to error. [b]We only know 9 significant figures of the speed of light[/b], and 5 significant figures of the mass of Earth. We know nothing perfectly for certain, and yet, our knowledge has practical uses. It allows us to put communication satellites into orbit, invent life-saving medicine, and feed billions of people. Knowledge doesn't have to be exact to be useful.[/QUOTE] Wrong.

There's also this, it's pretty recent but an interesting read: [url]http://ijass.org/On_line/admin/files/2)(014-026)11-030.pdf[/url] Although it would make sense that simple life were to exist on Mars at some point, it did have a climate quite similar to Earth and liquid water (from recent news it seems that it still has liquid water, just underground). Of course none of this is proof of anything, we can say it's very probable, specially if we ever manage to confirm that there was life on Mars and if we get to Europa and find it there too, finding life in 2 planets and a moon in just one Solar System would seriously increase the odds of finding it elsewhere and give us a better picture of how much of it probably is out there. Complex life however takes very special conditions to develop and might not be so abundant.

[QUOTE=DeanWinchester;37003783]Complex life however takes very special conditions to develop and might not be so abundant.[/QUOTE] Indeed. There's got to be some wiggle-room in those special conditions for complex life to take form though, so a planet slightly bigger/smaller than Earth would probably support life just as well. Then the distance to Sun, the axis of the planet, etc. Anyway, once the conditions are good, life starts to blossom and there's no stopping it. This has proven to be the case on our planet, and it only supports the idea that complex life can easily start to take form elsewhere in the Universe as well. [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] As for the abundance of complex life, I couldn't possibly know. Life on Earth however, as a prime example of study, is pretty complex. There's no other to compare ourselves to, but it's safe to say that we have set the bar pretty high for complexity of life.

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37004453]Indeed. There's got to be some wiggle-room in those special conditions for complex life to take form though, so a planet slightly bigger/smaller than Earth would probably support life just as well. Then the distance to Sun, the axis of the planet, etc. Anyway, once the conditions are good, life starts to blossom and there's no stopping it. This has proven to be the case on our planet, and it only supports the idea that complex life can easily start to take form elsewhere in the Universe as well. [editline]30th July 2012[/editline] As for the abundance of complex life, I couldn't possibly know. Life on Earth however, as a prime example of study, is pretty complex. There's no other to compare ourselves to, but it's safe to say that we have set the bar pretty high for complexity of life.[/QUOTE] Something has to kick start evolution, a planet with a stable aglomerate of climates where life can exist is the perfect petri dish for complex life to form because the variation in climate creates two components: - The need to adapt to different environments, creating variation. - The need to feed and survive, creating competition. These two lead to certain mutations giving an advantage to a species and having a higher probability of being passed on to the next generation. Look at jellyfish, pretty much nothing poses a threat to them and they have plenty of food so they remain mostly unchanged for millions of years. Also, life isn't restricted to planets in the habitable zone, moons orbiting gas giants can be just as big as a planet like Earth and get enough heat from the gas giant itself to keep a suitable environment, however those moons are more endangered than we are because the gas giant attracts foreign bodies that have a much higher probability of hitting one of its moons, on that aspect we're pretty safe thanks to Jupiter that pulls many of the threats away from us.

Yes.. what can I say.

There is no proof of extraterrestrial life. If there is proof then please show it to me.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37010505]There is no proof of extraterrestrial life. If there is proof then please show it to me.[/QUOTE] There is also no proof that there is no extraterrestrial life which you base your arguament on.

[QUOTE=Robbi;37010993]There is also no proof that there is no extraterrestrial life which you base your arguament on.[/QUOTE] You can't prove something doesn't exist. That's why the burden of proof belongs to the person saying something does exist.

[QUOTE=Robbi;37010993]There is also no proof that there is no extraterrestrial life which you base your arguament on.[/QUOTE] The burden of proof is on the claimant.

surely the entire universe cant be empty with just us in it, there must be life on other planets just like when scientist discovered the planet with the same conditions as earth

I think it's pretty arrogant to assume humans are the only intelligent life in the universe

[QUOTE=The Kakistocrat;37011558]You can't prove something doesn't exist. That's why the burden of proof belongs to the person saying something does exist.[/QUOTE] Haha? Are you serious? Of course we can proof something doesn't exist and to think otherwise is very stupid. Example: Is there tea in this empty teacup? No. I just proved that there is no tea in this teacup, the tea is nonexistant. Same logic can be applied to extraterrestrial life. Is there life in one of these billions of planets? I don't know. We haven't checked. Hence, we do not know if there is life. (Apart from Earth) Also the burden of proof belongs to anyone who is making claims about anything, not only the person who is claiming life exists outside of Earth (which I am not) but also the person who is claiming that there is no life (King Tiger). So far people who share my views, that we do not know if there is life or not, are the only ones been able to provide evidence of our claims. [editline]31st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;37012414]The burden of proof is on the claimant.[/QUOTE] You are also a claimant, by claiming there is no life. Silly bean. I am not claiming there is life. Has it gotten through to you yet? I'm starting to get worried about you. Go see a doctor.

It is only scientific to say what is more likely and less likely, not to be proving impossibles. King tiger is correct. If you have evidence, please post it.

[QUOTE=fox '09;37020804]King tiger is correct. If you have evidence, please post it.[/QUOTE] Amazing. Just amazing. I am not claiming there is evidence. I am claiming we do not know if there is life or not [B]because we have no evidence[/B]. Is it really that hard to read what has been said? I think they covered that part in school.. Did you go to school?

[QUOTE=Robbi;37021077]Amazing. Just amazing. I am not claiming there is evidence. I am claiming we do not know if there is life or not [B]because we have no evidence[/B]. Is it really that hard to read what has been said? I think they covered that part in school.. Did you go to school?[/QUOTE] [quote] There is also no proof that there is no extraterrestrial life which you base your arguament on. [/quote] You posted this, you asked him to prove an impossible. As for the rest of my post, It wasn't directed at you, sorry if it gave that impression. I didn't even quote you.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37010505]There is no proof of extraterrestrial life. If there is proof then please show it to me.[/QUOTE] Our planet and the life on it, duh? You see, we are extraterrestrial life if viewed from ANYWHERE except from our planet. Just step on the moon (or wherever), gaze upon Earth and you can say, "Hey, there's extraterrestrial life right there, or so I believe, and if I go there I am likely to find strong evidence of it!"

[QUOTE=Robbi;37020480]Haha? Are you serious? Of course we can proof something doesn't exist and to think otherwise is very stupid. Example: Is there tea in this empty teacup? No. I just proved that there is no tea in this teacup, the tea is nonexistant. Same logic can be applied to extraterrestrial life. Is there life in one of these billions of planets? I don't know. We haven't checked. Hence, we do not know if there is life. (Apart from Earth)[/quote] Scientists and enthusiasts have been searching for alien life for decades. According to your logic, this means aliens do not exist. [quote]Also the burden of proof belongs to anyone who is making claims about anything, not only the person who is claiming life exists outside of Earth (which I am not) but also the person who is claiming that there is no life (King Tiger).[/quote] Please show where I have made a claim. Please quote this supposed claim and repost it so I can see. [quote]You are also a claimant, by claiming there is no life. Silly bean. I am not claiming there is life. Has it gotten through to you yet? I'm starting to get worried about you. Go see a doctor.[/QUOTE] Once again, please point out these claims I am making. I find it funny that you are unable to go two posts without making an ad-hominem attack.

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37022953]Our planet and the life on it, duh? You see, we are extraterrestrial life if viewed from ANYWHERE except from our planet. Just step on the moon (or wherever), gaze upon Earth and you can say, "Hey, there's extraterrestrial life right there, or so I believe, and if I go there I am likely to find strong evidence of it!"[/QUOTE] Life on Earth is still terrestrial if viewed from the moon. [editline]31st July 2012[/editline] Is King Tiger trying to claim life does not exist? I'm confused about why we are arguing. We all agree that there is a chance life exists elsewhere, right?

[QUOTE=Falubii;37026798]Life on Earth is still terrestrial if viewed from the moon. [editline]31st July 2012[/editline] Is King Tiger trying to claim life does not exist? I'm confused about why we are arguing. We all agree that there is a chance life exists elsewhere, right?[/QUOTE] I am making no claims. I am asking people who say they are "sure" that alien life exists to give some sort of proof or evidence.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37027671]I am making no claims. I am asking people who say they are "sure" that alien life exists to give some sort of proof or evidence.[/QUOTE] In that case I completely agree with you.