Extraterrestrials - Here/Real or not? - General

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32870127]I explained this. When knowing the number of chances and observed occurrences you can estimate how likely it is that those observed occurrences are the only ones.[/QUOTE] We don't know the chances.

[QUOTE=Jookia;32870195]We don't know the chances.[/QUOTE]You have been saying this over and over. You don't need to know the chances. But number of possibilities for it to occur. Here let me explain. Lets say the only way for there to be life on one planet is if the chances for life are 0.00000000000000000001 per star. Anything less and there would be no planets with life and anything more and there would more then one. Now by saying there is only one planet means you are actually stating that you know the chances. Instead I am saying I don't. I'm saying the chance of the chance being exactly that number are lower then it being not and that doesn't take observation of other planets with life it only says because we don't have proof that this is the only planet that statistic is probably isn't that exact one.

I don't mean to start a religious discussion, but I don't understand how some people could believe that the idea of God (that has not been proven) is ridiculous, but believe that life on other planets (that has not been proven) are a big possibility.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32870240]You have been saying this over and over. You don't need to know the chances. But number of possibilities for it to occur. Here let me explain. Lets say the only way for there to be life on one planet is if the chances for life are 0.00000000000000000001 per star. Anything less and there would be no planets with life and anything more and there would more then one. Now by saying there is only one planet means you are actually stating that you know the chances. Instead I am saying I don't. I'm saying the chance of the chance being exactly that number are lower then it being not and that doesn't take observation of other planets with life it only says because we don't have proof that this is the only planet that statistic is probably isn't that exact one.[/QUOTE] Why don't you read what I write? I'm saying that nobody's observed extratterestrial life, thus I base my belief in them on fact, not chances or statistics.

[QUOTE=Jookia;32869255]I want hard evidence, not probabilities.[/QUOTE] We have radar data of them following discs doing speeds well above anything even close to what we can do on earth. Switching direction in a fraction of a second. Things can't be proven until they actually investigate - which they did with Project Bluebook and Project Grudge back in the day. Hell, why is everything related to it classified and blackened out if there was nothing to it?

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32870240]You have been saying this over and over. You don't need to know the chances.[/QUOTE] Yes you do. It's very simple maths: Estimated planets with life = Number of planets * [B]chance of life developing[/B]. Now, since we don't know the chance we cannot estimate anything. The chance could be anything greater than zero. There is no guess more right than the other. It's not more probable that the chance is 99 %, 50 %, 1 %, or 1^-100 %. You need to get your maths straight. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

[QUOTE=JumJum;32870291]I don't mean to start a religious discussion, but I don't understand how some people could believe that the idea of God (that has not been proven) is ridiculous, but believe that life on other planets (that has not been proven) are a big possibility.[/QUOTE] There is more proof of life on other planets than there is God existing. There are so many other planets that there must be more than one with life on.

[QUOTE=nightlord;32872134]There is more proof of life on other planets than there is God existing.[/QUOTE] Lol no.

[QUOTE=Jookia;32870557]Why don't you read what I write? I'm saying that nobody's observed extratterestrial life, thus I base my belief in them on fact, not chances or statistics.[/QUOTE] You say you base your beliefs on fact? Fact would be us exploring all of space then coming back and saying 'Nope, no other life out there'. If space is infinite then it is plain ignorant to suggest that there is no other life out there. The chances of there being no life out there are unbelievably low when you take into account the sheer size of space.

[QUOTE=FearsomeMudcrab;32872427]The chances of there being no life out there are unbelievably low when you take into account the sheer size of space.[/QUOTE] No no noo!! The size of the universe alone does not suffice for an argument! Please understand. Chance is not something you just guess because you have a hunch. That's not science..

The problem is that everyone is expecting the aliens to look like something similar to what we have seen before, an animal, a plant, an insect, a rock. We only have 5 sensors and if they exist on a level beyond our comprehension then they could be here right now.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32872646]No no noo!! The size of the universe alone does not suffice for an argument! Please understand. Chance is not something you just guess because you have a hunch. That's not science..[/QUOTE] I understand your point and accept it as logical reasoning. I still firmly believe that there is other life out there though, whether they're intelligent or not. Do you believe that there is more life out there?

[QUOTE=FearsomeMudcrab;32872868] Do you believe that there is more life out there?[/QUOTE] Yeah. For sure. But I am open to the possibility that we might just be alone, or of a [B]very[/B] rare kind.

From a scientific standpoint it doesn't make any sense that life would only develop once. There's nothing inherently special about our little area of the universe. The laws of physics are exactly the same here as anywhere else (well, maybe except for around the event horizon of a black hole). If atoms happened to bond in such a way that they created self replicating organisms once, there's physically no reason for it not to happen again. And with a universe that's AT LEAST 45 billion light years in radius, and some 13.7 billion years old the number of permutations and combinations of possible anythings (star systems, chemical concoctions, etc) means that it's almost certain that life has happened more than once. After all, the building blocks for life as we know it to exist are some of the lightest and most abundant elements in the universe - it's not like we got lucky with the elements or something.

[QUOTE=krazipanda;32870163]about 0.00001 that conditions would be right for life (According to our calculations, and we are most likely way off) and a ten thousanth of a chance times infinity or near infinity..... that's a pretty good/definite chance.[/QUOTE] Yeah, see while it is .00001 that is okay seeing as how there googols of space out there, even out side what we can see.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32872208]Lol no.[/QUOTE] Only 'evidence' of God (any of them really) is Religious books written by people.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32872935]Yeah. For sure. But I am open to the possibility that we might just be alone, or of a [B]very[/B] rare kind.[/QUOTE] So which would you rather believe here, that were all alone in this vast universe or not? Because it's one or the other and both of them are terrifying.

[QUOTE=BigOwl;32873838]So which would you rather believe here, that were all alone in this vast universe or not? Because it's one or the other and both of them are terrifying.[/QUOTE] I would rather have someone or something out there with us. Rather then be all alone on a little blue mote of dust.

[QUOTE=Lertez;32873863]I would rather have someone or something out there with us. Rather then be all alone on a little blue mote of dust.[/QUOTE] I agree with that. It would sure suck to know we're all alone.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32871922]Now, since we don't know the chance we cannot estimate anything. The chance could be anything greater than zero. There is no guess more right than the other. It's not more probable that the chance is 99 %, 50 %, 1 %, or 1^-100 %. You need to get your maths straight. Your argument doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE] Thats actually the point. Since 1 X 10-20 is no more likely then any other random number then the amount of all the random numbers is greater then the one which only allows one planet. Its like having a jar filled with jelly beans and you don't know how many is inside but you know the chances of you getting it right are lower then you getting it wrong. [editline]20th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Rad McCool;32872935]Yeah. For sure. But I am open to the possibility that we might just be alone, or of a [B]very[/B] rare kind.[/QUOTE] Well then you agree with what i'm saying. Its possible that we are alone but its more likely that we are not.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32879708]Thats actually the point. Since 1 X 10-20 is no more likely then any other random number then the amount of all the random numbers is greater then the one which only allows one planet.[/QUOTE] Ok I think I finally understand what you mean. Unfortunately this is only true if the chance is directly proportional to the number of planets. Which it doesn't have to be. Let's say there are three planets in the universe. What would be more likely, that we are alone or that we aren't? It would be impossible to tell without knowing the chance of life developing. If the chance is 1/3 or less (3 * 1/3 = 1), it would be most probable that we were alone. If the chance is 1/2, (3 * 1/2 = 1.5) both guesses would be as probable If the chance is higher than 1/2, then it would be more likely that ETs exist. And we can do the same thing with a trillion planets. If the chance is less than 1/trillion, then it would be logical to assume that we are alone. [B]We don't know this chance.[/B] We don't know if 1/trillion is more likely than 1/billion or 1/1000. [QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32879708] Well then you agree with what i'm saying. Its possible that we are alone but its more likely that we are not.[/QUOTE] No. My beliefs are just beliefs. And I do not present them as facts or a more probable answer.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32881704]No. My beliefs are just beliefs. And I do not present them as facts or a more probable answer.[/QUOTE] So your saying the difference between me and you is that I try to justify my beliefs?

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32881839]So your saying the difference between me and you is that I try to justify my beliefs?[/QUOTE] The difference is that you mix beliefs with science.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32852330]But you have to ask yourself. Is aliens really the best answer to why there were lights in the sky? I mean why would aliens even turn on the lights to there craft and even if you don't know what the lights are knowing you don't know is way less of a faith jump then saying the only good explanation is that they are alien space craft from another planet.[/QUOTE] Nothing that the public knows of can explain the swift movement and the stability of what they were doing up in the air. The air force denied any involvement, the police didn't know what was going on and this has happened twice now.

I see it as highly probable that they exist. In both sentient forms and not. I mean they've found bacteria on earth that came from meteorites, technically those are extraterrestrials. We're a product of luck. Surely we're not alone.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;32872802]The problem is that everyone is expecting the aliens to look like something similar to what we have seen before, an animal, a plant, an insect, a rock. We only have 5 sensors and if they exist on a level beyond our comprehension then they could be here right now.[/QUOTE] Maybe this is a bad example, but I always thought [url=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100516005030/half-life/en/images/thumb/6/6d/Advisor_Transmission.jpg/830px-Advisor_Transmission.jpg]this was an amazing representation of an alien[/url]. The humanoid form is best suited for survival, but that's according to how we understand things. I like to think if we ever meet aliens, they'll look kinda like that.

replace Santa clause with extraterrestrials or really anything its a good theory and what not [img]http://survivingtheworld.net/Lesson821.jpg[/img]

Watch this, and look at the scale at just what we can observe, and then ask "are we the only things out there" [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiE_kNk3ucI&feature=player_embedded[/media]

[QUOTE=Lertez;32883686]Watch this, and look at the scale at just what we can observe, and then ask "are we the only things out there" [/QUOTE] Could also take a look at the hubble ultra deep field images. They are pretty convincing.

[QUOTE=npx190;32788323]Patall, observing what appears to be your first post, with all due respect, how do I know your actually from this Earth, and not from some far away Council taking a survey to see if Earth would be accepting to extra-terrestrial presence? But in all seriousness, I kind of feel like some places that keep their mouths shut are hiding something, take the Apple corporation for example, and how their technical innovators seem to have shrunk stuff down in size a lot. The original ipod was real fat, but only had 1gb, then they kept on shrinking it in size, yet it grew internally, and with better quality. They did not teach me the names of those who came up with that engineering, and such a fast rate of engineering within a decade's time, really raised my suspicions of how some of this stuff has become a reality. I doubt everyone is who they say they are, they may look human, but maybe aren't. I have seen some real good fake human skin get made in the movie industry and what not, to know its not too hard to walk around as a fake human, where no one seems to notice you. Although, I really would like to know how these unexplained air-crafts go undetected to the radars, and can immediately jump from the ground and accelerate 0-60 seconds in the sky, and at such higher rates of speed.[/QUOTE] [img]http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5220/iingrule.png[/img] [url=http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=84400]I fucking rule.[/url] :v: