[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515735]Or we could actually solve the problems behind our healthcare market instead of masking it by spreading the payment for it. Get the government out of the doctor-patient relationship, grind down on so called "intellectual rights", and allow for nationwide competition among healthcare providers. Even so, churches and charity treatments have always been there for the poor.
directed at Thisisspain, fast moving thread this evening.[/QUOTE]
And they've never sufficiently covered the poor, at least not on any kind of scale comparable to single-payer systems.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;32515692]I personally think it should be given away only towards only necessities. I know a guy who was on welfare that ended up using some of the money to buy a flatscreen TV, and my uncle used welfare money to buy heroin.[/QUOTE] It mainly is. Its just that sometimes people will skip meals for a week to get other things. (believe me I have seen it) Its not that they are given too much its that sometimes what you want comes before what you need.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32515753]And they've never sufficiently covered the poor, at least not on any kind of scale comparable to single-payer systems.[/QUOTE]
Could you provide some sort of statistic or link to an article showing how many people were supposedly "saved" by the introduction of federal welfare.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515735]Get the government out of the doctor-patient relationship[/QUOTE]
what the fuck is a doctor-patient relationship?
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515735]grind down on so called "intellectual rights"[/QUOTE]
how does that fix healthcare? almost all necessary drugs are open to being copied
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515735]allow for nationwide competition among healthcare providers. [/QUOTE]
hardly anyone buys from healthcare employers so obviously that doesn't work either.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515735]churches and charity treatments have always been there for the poor.[/QUOTE]
maybe the catholic church but i don't see any charities performing a blood transfusion.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32515829]Could you provide some sort of statistic or link to an article showing how many people were supposedly "saved" by the introduction of federal welfare.[/QUOTE]
From the Wikipedia article on single-payer healthcare, comparing Canada's system to the US':
"Studies suggest that 40% of U.S. citizens do not have adequate health insurance, if any at all. In Canada, however, as many as 5% of Canadian citizens have not been able to find a regular doctor, with a further 9% having never looked for one. Yet, even if some cannot find a family doctor, every Canadian citizen is covered by the national health care system."
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared#Coverage_and_access[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32515851]what the fuck is a doctor-patient relationship? [/QUOTE]
presumably a relationship between doctor and patient
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32515912]presumably a relationship between doctor and patient[/QUOTE]
doctors and patients don't have a relationship
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32515773]It mainly is. Its just that sometimes people will skip meals for a week to get other things. (believe me I have seen it) Its not that they are given too much its that sometimes what you want comes before what you need.[/QUOTE]
Then the system needs to be reformed or changed in some way. It's clearly being abused.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32515934]doctors and patients don't have a relationship[/QUOTE]
I would never go so far as to say that, but I still support universal healthcare.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32516031]I would never go so far as to say that[/QUOTE]
i work in a hospital to train as a medical practitioner. i've never heard the sentence doctor-patient relationship beyond ron paul's campaign talking points.
if ron paul feels he had a relationship with people's vagina's as an OBGYN that's his thing but it's not reflective of everyone else.
Ron Paul was actually an OBGYN. Cool. Didn't know that.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;32515997]Then the system needs to be reformed or changed in some way. It's clearly being abused.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because someone doesn't eat beans for a whole day so they can get icecream.
I'm fucking retarded, please delete this post.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32516239]No it isn't. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because someone doesn't eat beans for a whole day so they can get icecream.[/QUOTE]
Accepting taxpayer money should be a last resort. If these people can go and buy luxuries with welfare, then clearly something in the system is severely broken.
[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;32516403]How the fuck can you compare that to you being a homeless man? Seriously? Is your money that fucking important to you? Chances are you're filthy fucking rich, how the fuck is a little pocket money so important to you?
While I understand your "they didn't do anything to earn it" perspective, comparing it to YOU YOURSELF being homeless with such a small little money shows that you are a closed minded greedy prick.[/QUOTE]
the irony of the situation being he never insinuated anything about himself being homeless in that post
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;32516450]the irony of the situation being he never insinuated anything about himself being homeless in that post[/QUOTE]
Whoops, once again I am a fucktard. I read his post completely wrong thinking it was talking about comparing himself to a homeless man. Christ, what is wrong with me today?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;32516440]Accepting taxpayer money should be a last resort. If these people can go and buy luxuries with welfare, then clearly something in the system is severely broken.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean they can't get a job. Really not getting beans and potatoes every day doesn't mean you're living the high life. It means they are simply saving money. Yea Its hard when you're on welfare but theres nothing wrong with it. It means they can fix there car if they have to or get icecream when they have saved good.
If I were American, I'd vote for Ron Paul.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32515851]what the fuck is a doctor-patient relationship?
how does that fix healthcare? almost all necessary drugs are open to being copied
hardly anyone buys from healthcare employers so obviously that doesn't work either.
maybe the catholic church but i don't see any charities performing a blood transfusion.[/QUOTE]
Apparently google is beyond your ability [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor-patient_relationship[/url]
Right now doctors are being forced to deal more with insurance corporations than with individual patients due to government interference in the market.
Right now healthcare insurance providers are only allowed to compete on a state level, effectively handing them monopolies in their state. If we were to get rid of state barriers then (gasp!) insurance companies would actually have to compete for your dollars!
If you are in need of a blood transfusion the guys at the ER can't say "naw, you don't have insurance".
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32525672]
Right now doctors are being forced to deal more with insurance corporations than with individual patients due to government interference in the market. [/QUOTE]I seriously doubt doctors spend more of their work time with paperworks than treating patients.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32525672]Apparently google is beyond your ability [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor-patient_relationship[/url][/QUOTE]
the only stupid things i google is stuff relating to animals
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32525672]Right now doctors are being forced to deal more with insurance corporations than with individual patients due to government interference in the market. [/QUOTE]
no i work with doctors and i see one as well. usually their assistant handles the paperwork. and it's not really government interference doing that, it's got more to do with who's paying for your healthcare.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32525672]Right now healthcare insurance providers are only allowed to compete on a state level, effectively handing them monopolies in their state. If we were to get rid of state barriers then (gasp!) insurance companies would actually have to compete for your dollars! [/QUOTE]
they didn't compete before that's why the need for state insurance arises. most people actually get their health coverage from their employer, not many people buy it themselves.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;32525672]If you are in need of a blood transfusion the guys at the ER can't say "naw, you don't have insurance".[/QUOTE]
not if it's something to treat a non-emergency with. plus if you end up getting a blood transfusion as an emergency procedure you might lose the ability to live properly when they hand you the bill. pretty common actually.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32527132]the only stupid things i google is stuff relating to animals
no i work with doctors and i see one as well. usually their assistant handles the paperwork. and it's not really government interference doing that, it's got more to do with who's paying for your healthcare.
they didn't compete before that's why the need for state insurance arises. most people actually get their health coverage from their employer, not many people buy it themselves.
not if it's something to treat a non-emergency with. plus if you end up getting a blood transfusion as an emergency procedure you might lose the ability to live properly when they hand you the bill. pretty common actually.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jG2Vp9XKDc[/media]
this rings a bell
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;32526177]I seriously doubt doctors spend more of their work time with paperworks than treating patients.[/QUOTE]
I've worked in a doctor's office and my dad's a doctor himself and they undoubtedly do. Office hours for patients visiting are from 9-5, and usually a doctor spends 15 minutes with a patient, the nurses can handle most of the stuff. Then, after office hours it's usually time spent alone at a desk filling out huge stacks of paperwork for the patients from the day. And it follows them home too.
[editline]28th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32527132]the only stupid things i google is stuff relating to animalsno i work with doctors and i see one as well. usually their assistant handles the paperwork.[/QUOTE]
Also, while this is true because nurses CAN handle a lot of paperwork, I would say it's barely half at tops. There are a lot of things a nurse simply can't do/write that a doctor can. Both legally and practically.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;32527525] Then, after office hours it's usually time spent alone at a desk filling out huge stacks of paperwork for the patients from the day. And it follows them home too.[/QUOTE]
sure if you work in private practice but that's got nothing to do with the government.
This is what you guys sound like:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnbAzn_ltRk[/media]
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