Vorty ( Use a phone to open all of your doors ) - General

[QUOTE=J!NX;47248013] hell, couldn't someone just disconnect the power to your house and basically unlock the entire building?[/QUOTE] they're gonna use a brick to break a window long before they go around cutting down power lines personally i'd trust the security of an electronic lock that probably takes some aes encryption to unlock over a simple tumbler lock that can be picked in a few minutes

[QUOTE=Kljunas;47245444]This is less secure than an actual key though (like what if someone is sniffing your traffic when you broadcast the key to the receiver?). Not to mention it's more prone to failure, which would be a pretty shitty situation to be in. And while I see how it's convenient for a garage door, it seems a bit useless when you're on foot. Instead of having to get your key out you have to get your phone out; not a massive difference.[/QUOTE] Any sane solution would not be vulnerable to that. A better approach is a two way handshake like SSH where both the door and the phone have a private key and you need both to open the door making passive listening, useless.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47244537]If so, why even have a magnetic one then?[/QUOTE] Whats the point in having a mechanical lock and a remote keyless system feature on your luxurious automobile? This doesn't sound like the best remote keyless system I mean we already have key fobs for garages and doors. This sounds like more of a reinvention.

[QUOTE=Bubz;47256618]Whats the point in having a mechanical lock and a remote keyless system feature on your luxurious automobile? [/QUOTE]I'm actually not sure. But this isn't what I was talking about unless luxurious automobiles use physical lock and a magnetic lock.

I'm good with keys and locks thanks

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47256684]I'm actually not sure. But this isn't what I was talking about unless luxurious automobiles use physical lock and a magnetic lock.[/QUOTE] I'm giving you reason to why a fail safe isn't a pointless fill-in for the primitive electromagnetic lock to work for your convenience. This is all about convenience and customer satisfaction.

[QUOTE=Bubz;47256773]I'm giving you reason to why a fail safe isn't a pointless fill-in for the primitive electromagnetic lock to work for your convenience. This is all about convenience and customer satisfaction.[/QUOTE]I still don't get it. If you can use a mechanical lock, why even have a magnetic one then? You can remotely unlock a mechanical one too.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47256781]I still don't get it. If you can use a mechanical lock, why even have a magnetic one then? You can remotely unlock a mechanical one too.[/QUOTE] less failure

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47256781]I still don't get it. If you can use a mechanical lock, why even have a magnetic one then? You can remotely unlock a mechanical one too.[/QUOTE] Well, I did say this is basically a reinvention but way more stupid. But I have to think about demographics of other countries and their burglary percentage. This is probably a sweet device in places where little to no crime is committed. Because this device is useless as shit when power outages occur. No electromagnetic lock is fail-secure because of fires and what not.

Hi guys, my name is Dainis, I m co-founder of Vorty and I'm just googled your discussion. First, of all, thanks a lot for your attention to our startup and idea. It is extremely important for us to know opinions in order to improve our products and understand further expectations. If you are keen to ask me any specific question, I will try to do the best to comment this here. Besides if anyone want to joint our group at facebook [url]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorty-smartphone-is-your-key/669706963111951?ref=bookmarks[/url] , please, very welcome.

Those of you who dont trust the magnets, does your house have windows?

[QUOTE=MedicWine;47258034]Those of you who dont trust the magnets, does your house have windows?[/QUOTE] Well, I got bit personal experience with magnetic lock. On a video you see magnetic lock is from my house and I use this as a betta tester for bit more then half a year. Only can I say it is a lock. It is well-established technology, even sounds a kind of novelty. Every mechanical lock for burglar has some force point to break. Same as with magnetic lock. It is measured in kgs or lbs no matter. Magnetic locks point to break and we have 600 lbs to be exact, which quite q lot, but if customers want, no problems 1200 lbs, it is just bit more costly. Thanks a lot for question, looks there is a lot of concern about this, looks we need to explain this in our promotion as well.

Most security/home automation systems do this.

I'm never getting a door that opens by a phone Jesus fucking Christ.

Electromagnetic locks are actually fairly reliable. You'd be surprised at how common that tech is. Even our dinky City Hall in north Georgia uses electromagnetic door locks. We just swipe our badges and the electromagnetic lock releases the door. The only problem is that the placement of that lock either too high to too low can make cheap wooden/aluminum doors fail if you just apply enough force on the opposite side from the lock. So if the lock is up high (Such as in the Vorty video) all you have to do is apply enough force on the bottom half of the door; eventually cheap doors give in from over bending. Ultimately, the most secure thing you can do is ensure your entrances into the home have heavy solid wooden/aluminum doors that are security rated. You also need to ensure that the door jambs are also mounted into a wall stud and not just the door frame itself. The most secure door in the world is useless if the only thing holding the locking assembly secure are a few 2 inch wood screws.

[QUOTE=Dainis_Vorty;47257726]Hi guys, my name is Dainis, I m co-founder of Vorty and I'm just googled your discussion. First, of all, thanks a lot for your attention to our startup and idea. It is extremely important for us to know opinions in order to improve our products and understand further expectations. If you are keen to ask me any specific question, I will try to do the best to comment this here. Besides if anyone want to joint our group at facebook [url]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorty-smartphone-is-your-key/669706963111951?ref=bookmarks[/url] , please, very welcome.[/QUOTE] So, since the lock relies on an electromagnet, wouldn't that mean the door will not stay locked if the electricity is not working?

[QUOTE=MR-X;47259563]Most security/home automation systems do this.[/QUOTE] You are absolutely right. The problem of home automation system is that you use home automation wireless standard, most probably Z-way or zigbee. In order to operate by smartphone you need to be connected to wifi or wireless internet by phone. So your smartphone first has to be connected to internet, when you tap the app, signal goes through internet to your home automation hub, then is go through (most often) z-way to specific device. So it is bit time consuming first and you are dependent on wifi / internet connection to your home. What we bring is stand alone system, no dependence on any networks and works exceptionally fast. Normally from you tap a widget and doors opens takes about 0,2 sec. Actually we bring solution which is in direct competition to existing home automation approach.

[QUOTE=Dainis_Vorty;47261434]You are absolutely right. The problem of home automation system is that you use home automation wireless standard, most probably Z-way or zigbee. In order to operate by smartphone you need to be connected to wifi or wireless internet by phone. So your smartphone first has to be connected to internet, when you tap the app, signal goes through internet to your home automation hub, then is go through (most often) z-way to specific device. So it is bit time consuming first and you are dependent on wifi / internet connection to your home. What we bring is stand alone system, no dependence on any networks and works exceptionally fast. Normally from you tap a widget and doors opens takes about 0,2 sec. Actually we bring solution which is in direct competition to existing home automation approach.[/QUOTE] But none of that is a problem because the internet isnt slow. Especially when in range of your wifi network, which you'd be if you were at home. And if you don't use the internet, you won't be able to lock remotely.

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;47261061]So, since the lock relies on an electromagnet, wouldn't that mean the door will not stay locked if the electricity is not working?[/QUOTE] Yes. If you have any doubts about how steady is supply of electricity on your premise, then this is a issue. Thanks for arguments like this, looks we will adopt some battery pack in the controller on the next model just for peace of mind. There is no high consumption in watts, so it can be solution for this issue. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;47261446]But none of that is a problem because the internet isnt slow. Especially when in range of your wifi network, which you'd be if you were at home. And if you don't use the internet, you won't be able to lock remotely.[/QUOTE] Im not telling home automation is not working. It is working. Our point is that Vorty is not dependent on wifi, internet, therefore you have no potential issues regarded. For instance if you drive a car and want to open gate (which can be in some distance from your router) then in home automation case you have to be sure either your home wifi coverage reaching you or internet on phone is switched on. On our case you do not care. Yes, you are right, by our system you can not unlock the door from another city, but is it really an issue on real live?

Nor will the range of bluetooth be good enough to unlock from a gate. It doesn't seem wise to not have a fallback.

[QUOTE=Lawligagger;47259873]I'm never getting a door that opens by a phone Jesus fucking Christ.[/QUOTE] Sure, humanity lived couple thousand years without and still survived. Like without internet and mobile phones, etc. :-) [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;47261520]Nor will the range of bluetooth be good enough to unlock from a gate. It doesn't seem wise to not have a fallback.[/QUOTE] Yes, when we started to look on this concept, we also got widespread assumption that bluetooth range is 10 meters maximum. But is not true. As technology Bluetooth can reach even kilometer or so. Using extra antenna on existing device we made maximum sensitivity 20 meters (about 65 feet), which is pretty ok. And this we have included in gates / garage option already. We also can extend range, if market say. Technology is not a big issue here. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Bredirish123;47260336]Electromagnetic locks are actually fairly reliable. You'd be surprised at how common that tech is. Even our dinky City Hall in north Georgia uses electromagnetic door locks. We just swipe our badges and the electromagnetic lock releases the door. The only problem is that the placement of that lock either too high to too low can make cheap wooden/aluminum doors fail if you just apply enough force on the opposite side from the lock. So if the lock is up high (Such as in the Vorty video) all you have to do is apply enough force on the bottom half of the door; eventually cheap doors give in from over bending. Ultimately, the most secure thing you can do is ensure your entrances into the home have heavy solid wooden/aluminum doors that are security rated. You also need to ensure that the door jambs are also mounted into a wall stud and not just the door frame itself. The most secure door in the world is useless if the only thing holding the locking assembly secure are a few 2 inch wood screws.[/QUOTE] Very correct. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;47253922]Well you dont just find exploits for things like key exchange algos like rsa After 24hrs and with a pair of bolt clkppers hoping for the best to not alarm the electrical company sure. [editline]3rd March 2015[/editline] The convenience of it however is extremely debatable. NFC would be _much_ more convenient.[/QUOTE] From our faq First, despite the growing availability of NFC on smartphones, all phones have Bluetooth. Second, NFC works only over very short ranges, at most a few centimeters, and cannot be used for applications over any distance. A Vorty controller can be placed conveniently inside a door, making it a perfect vandal-proof solution for all smartphones, which would not be possible with NFC. Besides how to use NFC for gates or garage? Convenience use smartphone as a key, is that you do not care about keys or gates, garage knobs anymore, just use a thing you carry anyway. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=LordCrypto;47245028]the kind of biometric you leave everywhere you go is a pretty shitty one[/QUOTE] Biometric locks works, no doubts, but that's expensive. We use much cheaper technology. Im also not sure how to organize convinience for garage or gates. Same as NFC.

[t]http://5crat.ch/a/v3dq[/t] [t]http://5crat.ch/a/a725[/t] False Advert

[QUOTE=Scratch.;47261822][t]http://5crat.ch/a/v3dq[/t] [t]http://5crat.ch/a/a725[/t] False Advert[/QUOTE] Not true. This comes from our Indiegogo campaign and there is fairly explained current status of the project. Right now we have made Android apps, betta alfa tested, superb working. If you want to play with, you can freely download from Google Play. There are two apps Vorty key (trigger operation) and Vorty Master (administrative). IOs is on the progress. We advert product which will be delivered on September and Im personally sure the IOs app will be ready then. We know time how much it was needed to get it for Android, so, it is clear. More about project read on: [url]http://igg.me/p/vorty-go-keyless/x/9097533[/url] First two objectives are Android and iOS and then also Windows phones or even more specific platforms if market demands. The main message at the video advert - there is no technology limits. If you know recent Deadbolt Smartlocks operetes by smartphone, they are limited to Low Energy Bluetooth, because are battery driven, so basically Smartlocks market is limited only to the latest Iphones. If you want to design deadbolt which works with any phone, then you drain batteries extremely fast. It is problem which can not be resolved. It was technology trap for first Smartlock designers. I was nightmare, because there no solution to overcome. Speaking about Indiegogo, we are intending to bring product on the market in any case, Indiegogo we use just as a market test platform, this is a reason why we choose flexible funding. There no doubts, that every backer will receive a perk, no matter we will reach a target on Indiegogo or not, but of course we will be extremely happy if people would vote for idea by cash. It is most approving. Actually we have some 50 pcs from test production already and we can ship to some of you as super early adopter, just write me directly, even today, it is not a joke. Im personally absolutely convinienced that this is a great thing, because Im not just crazy inventor, but user / tester and love it. Specially my kids :-) Young generation bit crazy about gadgets like that. Also we have a streach targer, we do not officially promote this, but our guys works to extend administrative applet funcionality, which alows to issue and manage keys trough internet. Yesterday I saw betta funcionallity, it is awsome already. We are considering to advert it, but probaply the best to do when this will be alfa and tested. I hope this will be on May - June. So backers most probaply will receive more then promised. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] Guys, if nobody opposed, I would like to use some questions and answers from this discussion on FAQ. Actually you already did a lot on contribution to understand early public reaction on an idea and I see some improvements (like backup batteries) we can do to improve product. Thanks! I will check discussion after a while and will be glad to answer new questions if arrives! Cheers! Dainis, Vorty

[QUOTE=MadBomber;47247422]The ones on site had a backup capacitor that would keep them good for about 24hours[/QUOTE] That still doesn't mean shit when you lose power for 24+ hours. I was without power for a week during Sandy, and another few days after Sandy because of the nor'easter right after I'd rather not sacrifice my safety or have to worry if my doors are going to STAY locked when there is literally nothing wrong with conventional doors :v: [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] There is no upside over this that I can think of over my code-activated lock on my front door. I haven't used a key in years. You put in the code and the bolt-lock unlocks. "But kylel999! anybody can see your code!" Easy fix: don't show the world your code. You stand infront of the thing anyway when you punch it in. If the batteries in the lock die, it [I]can[/I] take a key which I have on my ring with my car keys but it [I]still[/I] doesn't matter for me because when I get out of the car to go inside I have my keys in my hand anyway

[QUOTE=Dainis_Vorty;47261867]Not true. This comes from our Indiegogo campaign and there is fairly explained current status of the project. Right now we have made Android apps, betta alfa tested, superb working. If you want to play with, you can freely download from Google Play. There are two apps Vorty key (trigger operation) and Vorty Master (administrative). IOs is on the progress. We advert product which will be delivered on September and Im personally sure the IOs app will be ready then. We know time how much it was needed to get it for Android, so, it is clear. More about project read on: [url]http://igg.me/p/vorty-go-keyless/x/9097533[/url] First two objectives are Android and iOS and then also Windows phones or even more specific platforms if market demands. The main message at the video advert - there is no technology limits. If you know recent Deadbolt Smartlocks operetes by smartphone, they are limited to Low Energy Bluetooth, because are battery driven, so basically Smartlocks market is limited only to the latest Iphones. If you want to design deadbolt which works with any phone, then you drain batteries extremely fast. It is problem which can not be resolved. It was technology trap for first Smartlock designers. I was nightmare, because there no solution to overcome. Speaking about Indiegogo, we are intending to bring product on the market in any case, Indiegogo we use just as a market test platform, this is a reason why we choose flexible funding. There no doubts, that every backer will receive a perk, no matter we will reach a target on Indiegogo or not, but of course we will be extremely happy if people would vote for idea by cash. It is most approving. Actually we have some 50 pcs from test production already and we can ship to some of you as super early adopter, just write me directly, even today, it is not a joke. Im personally absolutely convinienced that this is a great thing, because Im not just crazy inventor, but user / tester and love it. Specially my kids :-) Young generation bit crazy about gadgets like that. Also we have a streach targer, we do not officially promote this, but our guys works to extend administrative applet funcionality, which alows to issue and manage keys trough internet. Yesterday I saw betta funcionallity, it is awsome already. We are considering to advert it, but probaply the best to do when this will be alfa and tested. I hope this will be on May - June. So backers most probaply will receive more then promised. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] Guys, if nobody opposed, I would like to use some questions and answers from this discussion on FAQ. Actually you already did a lot on contribution to understand early public reaction on an idea and I see some improvements (like backup batteries) we can do to improve product. Thanks! I will check discussion after a while and will be glad to answer new questions if arrives! Cheers! Dainis, Vorty[/QUOTE] I think he meant that there's a windows phone in the photo, but you guys dont have a windows phone app.

Wouldn't it be much better to have a dropping deadbolt that gets pulled away with magnetic force? That way if the system lost power the door would still be locked.

[QUOTE=Dainis_Vorty;47261867]Not true. This comes from our Indiegogo campaign and there is fairly explained current status of the project. Right now we have made Android apps, betta alfa tested, superb working. If you want to play with, you can freely download from Google Play. There are two apps Vorty key (trigger operation) and Vorty Master (administrative). IOs is on the progress. We advert product which will be delivered on September and Im personally sure the IOs app will be ready then. We know time how much it was needed to get it for Android, so, it is clear. More about project read on: [url]http://igg.me/p/vorty-go-keyless/x/9097533[/url] First two objectives are Android and iOS and then also Windows phones or even more specific platforms if market demands. The main message at the video advert - there is no technology limits. If you know recent Deadbolt Smartlocks operetes by smartphone, they are limited to Low Energy Bluetooth, because are battery driven, so basically Smartlocks market is limited only to the latest Iphones. If you want to design deadbolt which works with any phone, then you drain batteries extremely fast. It is problem which can not be resolved. It was technology trap for first Smartlock designers. I was nightmare, because there no solution to overcome. Speaking about Indiegogo, we are intending to bring product on the market in any case, Indiegogo we use just as a market test platform, this is a reason why we choose flexible funding. There no doubts, that every backer will receive a perk, no matter we will reach a target on Indiegogo or not, but of course we will be extremely happy if people would vote for idea by cash. It is most approving. Actually we have some 50 pcs from test production already and we can ship to some of you as super early adopter, just write me directly, even today, it is not a joke. Im personally absolutely convinienced that this is a great thing, because Im not just crazy inventor, but user / tester and love it. Specially my kids :-) Young generation bit crazy about gadgets like that. Also we have a streach targer, we do not officially promote this, but our guys works to extend administrative applet funcionality, which alows to issue and manage keys trough internet. Yesterday I saw betta funcionallity, it is awsome already. We are considering to advert it, but probaply the best to do when this will be alfa and tested. I hope this will be on May - June. So backers most probaply will receive more then promised. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] Guys, if nobody opposed, I would like to use some questions and answers from this discussion on FAQ. Actually you already did a lot on contribution to understand early public reaction on an idea and I see some improvements (like backup batteries) we can do to improve product. Thanks! I will check discussion after a while and will be glad to answer new questions if arrives! Cheers! Dainis, Vorty[/QUOTE] I must say Dainis I absolutely love the concept. I'm very much into home automation; I actually had priced similar products because I at some point would love to simply use my phone to unlock doors to the house. It can be so annoying fumbling for keys in the dead of night. Especially when it's cold or rainy out, it just makes the whole process worse. So I can definitely see this type of tech coming in handy. I recall someone had mentioned that it's useless if your phone is dead. True, but your keys are useless if you've lost them. The whole dead phone concern is pretty silly. Especially considering modern cell phone tech has allowed phones to hold charges for much longer. Hell, my Note 4 with bluetooth left on all day still is about at 70% by the time I come home at the end of the day.

[QUOTE=Bredirish123;47266166]I must say Dainis I absolutely love the concept. I'm very much into home automation; I actually had priced similar products because I at some point would love to simply use my phone to unlock doors to the house. It can be so annoying fumbling for keys in the dead of night. Especially when it's cold or rainy out, it just makes the whole process worse. So I can definitely see this type of tech coming in handy. I recall someone had mentioned that it's useless if your phone is dead. True, but your keys are useless if you've lost them. The whole dead phone concern is pretty silly. Especially considering modern cell phone tech has allowed phones to hold charges for much longer. Hell, my Note 4 with bluetooth left on all day still is about at 70% by the time I come home at the end of the day.[/QUOTE] So the solution for phones dieing is to buy a new phone? fuck off

[QUOTE=Bredirish123;47266166] So I can definitely see this type of tech coming in handy. I recall someone had mentioned that it's useless if your phone is dead. True, but your keys are useless if you've lost them. The whole dead phone concern is pretty silly. Especially considering modern cell phone tech has allowed phones to hold charges for much longer. Hell, my Note 4 with bluetooth left on all day still is about at 70% by the time I come home at the end of the day.[/QUOTE] You see, I don't want to use my phone carefully and watch the battery so that at the end of a workday I can get back into my house. Having keys means if my battery runs out, I can still get in. You can lose keys but they can't run out of battery.

[QUOTE=Scratch.;47266398]So the solution for phones dieing is to buy a new phone? fuck off[/QUOTE] Why would you buy a new phone if your phone's battery dies? Please read better next time and use your context clues. Even if your phone were lost or stolen it looks like you can manage 'users' by adding or removing phones. My whole point however; was that I think the concern of your phone battery being dead is as silly as the concern of losing your keys. IE, most people don't lose their keys on such a regular basis that it makes having keyed locks useless or a nuisance. That's the mentality I have seen in this thread toward this tech and having to rely on your smart phone to unlock doors. In fact, I think we can all say we have some way to charge our phones; whether it be a wall charger or car charger. You can generally plug in just about anywhere to get a small charge to make calls/send texts/or hmm, unlock your door. Just like some people leave a spare house or car key set with a relative or friend, you could simply just authorize their phone to unlock your door if anything were to happen. [editline]5th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;47267010]You see, I don't want to use my phone carefully and watch the battery so that at the end of a workday I can get back into my house. Having keys means if my battery runs out, I can still get in. You can lose keys but they can't run out of battery.[/QUOTE] Chances are if you run your phone battery down at work then you probably should be focusing on your work. Unless you happen to have a faulty out of China replacement battery you shouldn't ever have to really constantly monitor your battery. I know I don't; even if I sit on my hour lunch streaming Netflix or Amazon Prime my battery life doesn't just disappear. As I said in my previous post; generally if you have a cell phone then you have a way to charge it, no? I have a car charger in my glovebox and a wall charger plus the USB cable in my bag or a pocket, just in case I ever do need it.