Firearms XII; Because Merica - General

We've had an MVP sitting around my store for ages. I don't like it. Then again, I have a general disdain for Mossberg.

Imagine having to pay a grand for a Mossberg MVP [editline]9th March 2015[/editline] If MVP's were 2 or 300 cheaper I'd pick one up, but at their price range I'd rather just spend the extra money and track down a used Steyr Scout. You lose the mag capability but you get an infinitely better rifle.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47289611]If you ever thing the ATF is a intelligent bureau with integrity, read these 2 letters: [t]http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ATF-shoestring-machine-gun-2004.jpg[/t][t]http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ATF-shoestring-machine-gun-2007.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Always a healthy reminder that we really need to put more restrictions on the ATF's regulating ability. I'd have no problem if the ATF was more about enforcing state laws, alongside the general regulations set by the federal, but when they play slip and slide like this is gets pretty irritating to say the least.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47285834]New York legal AR. [editline]9th March 2015[/editline] If you wanna see some sad shit, go on gunbroker and search "New York legal"[/QUOTE] It makes me sad to see a AR so gutted.

What do you guys recommend for concealed carry? I was looking at a few P290's and they're about the price range I'd be at. Preferably 5+ capacity, 9mm, for less than $650.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47295056]What do you guys recommend for concealed carry? I was looking at a few P290's and they're about the price range I'd be at. Preferably 5+ capacity, 9mm, for less than $650.[/QUOTE] I absolutely do not recommend anything smaller than a compact pistol. Something like a P229 is as small as I'd go. Yes, the smaller guns are convenient, but here is the deal: Shooting them sucks. They aren't fun to shoot and tend to have such little in the way of mass that they can even hurt after a box. This is important because the gun you carry should be the gun you are best with. You need to put a lot of rounds down range and be one hundred percent comfortable with the platform you choose to carry. If you are an adult male of any reasonable size, concealing a full size duty pistol in a shoulder holster isn't really a problem. Just make sure you train with the shoulder holster in a safe environment, as they are a little more dangerous to work with. Otherwise something with a 4 inch barrel would be just fine too. My wife has a subcompact XD 9mm, which is similar in size and such to the 290, and it just isn't fun to shoot. A full size .45 ACP has less recoil.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47295056]What do you guys recommend for concealed carry? I was looking at a few P290's and they're about the price range I'd be at. Preferably 5+ capacity, 9mm, for less than $650.[/QUOTE] Try any compact model of major makers like the G19, M&Pc, ect. Those will be under 650 and have a good enough capacity.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47295056]What do you guys recommend for concealed carry? I was looking at a few P290's and they're about the price range I'd be at. Preferably 5+ capacity, 9mm, for less than $650.[/QUOTE] Glock 26 is my choice. I bought one for my girlfriend as well as one for myself.

Glock's lack of secondary safeties worries me.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47296281]Glock's lack of secondary safeties worries me.[/QUOTE] I don't worry about it, in a proper holster there's nothing to worry about.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47295056]What do you guys recommend for concealed carry? I was looking at a few P290's and they're about the price range I'd be at. Preferably 5+ capacity, 9mm, for less than $650.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GunFox;47295821]I absolutely do not recommend anything smaller than a compact pistol. Something like a P229 is as small as I'd go...[/QUOTE] I carry my P250 compact in .40SW, and I don't have any problems concealing or shooting it. I agree with GunFox and wouldn't go below a compact. My buddy carries an M&P Bodyguard, and it is honestly one of the worst handguns I have ever shot just out of pure size. [QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47296281]Glock's lack of secondary safeties worries me.[/QUOTE] The P250 also doesn't feature a safety, and it hasn't bugged me at all. Anything you would do to make it accidentally fire would probably cause a gun with a safety to accidentally fire as well. It's not much of a concern [t]http://puu.sh/eifK9/e1f80dfb14.png[/t] Gun next to other common objects for size comparison.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47296281]Glock's lack of secondary safeties worries me.[/QUOTE] P290's don't have any safeties at all what so ever. You don't [i]need[/i] a safety on a firearm as long as you handle it properly. As far as a CC goes, if you're a small dood go with a P239. It's a super slim single stack that has a 8 round capacity for 9mm, or 7 round capacity for 357 sig/40S&W. Personally, I would go with a CZ 75, P226 or a USP compact for a CC. If you prefer strikerfired pistols, Kahr makes a bunch of good ones and you can't go wrong with a duty-size glock or a subc glock.

You don't need an external safety if you have a quality holster.

you don't need external safety at all unless it's a match gun with a hair trigger

[QUOTE=Ajacks;47296162]Glock 26 is my choice. I bought one for my girlfriend as well as one for myself.[/QUOTE] I had one, but needed the pinkie extension to shoot comfortably. I realized I lost the concealment of it with that, so I figured I might as well improve the sight radius, and traded it with a friend who had a G19.

I am a small dude... 5'11" 140lbs. I've been looking at the P239 or the m&p shield. Gonna use it for conceal carry... One issue I have is their is only one gunstore around here that has a inside range, and I wish to shoot a similar model of the ont im buying to make sure I'm confertible with it. But said store has a 100$ markup... Life is hard...

rip trunk monkay

Good news (for now) [url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/03/10/atf-released-a-comment-about-the-proposed-m855-ban/[/url]

[QUOTE=camaroni;47298188]Good news (for now) [url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/03/10/atf-released-a-comment-about-the-proposed-m855-ban/[/url][/QUOTE] Now give us our 7n6 and M43 back!

Speaking of quality holsters Beware of soft holsters [img]http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/5546662595_4b5d2dfaa1_o.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/leather-holster-ad-nd-1.jpg[/img] I mean it is pretty foolish to no check your gear and maintain it. But this is one thing that can happen, this guy got super lucky. I would suggest a nice Kydex holster

Putting your safety on the trigger is like putting your emergency brake on the accelerator. Only dumber. If you must have a safety that is "automatic" in the sense that no thought is necessary to engage and disengage it, then a grip safety seems the better choice.

The point is to make the gun drop safe. The safety is too light to disengage if the gun is dropped.

Lucky and cheeky cunt. Really hope that GCA 68 will start to fall apart after the Hughes Amendment take down. Oh and in speaking of the Hughes Amendment Lawsuit: [quote]Sur-Reply Argues That Full-Auto Ban in Unconstitutional By SOF A new twist has emerged in a lawsuit challenging the 1986 ban on the registration of fully-automatic firearms. The suit challenges a provision that anti-gun lawmakers inserted into the Firearms’ Owners Protection Act. According to a report by National Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea, the lawyers for Jay Aubrey Isaac Hollis, who set up an unincorporated trust that had initially received a tax stamp for a fully-automatic firearm before the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) tried to revoke the stamp, have filed what is known as a sur-reply. The sur-reply, delivered in response to a motion to dismiss offered by the Justice Department, is before federal district judge Barbara M.G. Lynn of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division, argues that both the 2008 Heller case, as well as the 1939 case known as U.S. v. Miller and the Ninth Circuit’s ruling in Peruta v. County of San Diego, which struck down California’s application of its law regarding concealed carry permits, require that the ban on fully-automatic firearms manufactured after 19 May, 1986, be tossed out. Judge Lynn was appointed to the court by former President Bill Clinton. The sur-reply also cited last month’s decision tossing out the ban on interstate handgun sales from the Fort Worth Division of the Northern District of Texas. In that ruling, United States District Judge Reed O’Connor applied a standard known as “strict scrutiny” to the interstate ban, and proceeded to strike it down. The federal government has until 11 March to respond to the sur-reply.[/quote] [url=http://www.sofmag.com/new-twist-in-machine-gun-suit/]SoFMag[/url] In hopeful celebration, I have changed my avatar :D

[QUOTE=GunFox;47300320]Putting your safety on the trigger is like putting your emergency brake on the accelerator. Only dumber. If you must have a safety that is "automatic" in the sense that no thought is necessary to engage and disengage it, then a grip safety seems the better choice.[/QUOTE] if you keep your fingers off the trigger it absolutely won't fire except in freak accidents like that soft holster example and soft holsters are dangerous and stupid with any gun

[QUOTE=ksenior;47300409]The point is to make the gun drop safe. The safety is too light to disengage if the gun is dropped.[/QUOTE] Most modern handguns have firing pin blocks on the trigger. If the trigger isn't pulled, it won't go off. A trigger safety isn't meant to make the gun drop-safe, it's meant to stop things from snagging or rubbing the side of the trigger and pulling it, and so Glock can claim they do in fact have a safety on the gun. My girlfriend just got a Kahr MK9, a full-steel 9mm subcompact, and surprisingly it's not terrible to shoot. It doesn't have any external safety, but has a very long trigger pull that while not ideal functionally, makes it very difficult to ND. For CC purposes I'd want some combination of a long trigger pull, heavy trigger, or external safety, and I wouldn't trust a gun with none of those three. Regarding the comments about not going smaller than compacts, the weight of a steel gun like the MK9 also helps counteract the recoil and it isn't nearly as unpleasant as the 9mm Glock subcompacts I've shot. Then there are also smaller calibers like .380 to consider. I don't think it's fair to write off all subcompacts, but the polymer-framed 9mm subcompacts that seem to be in vogue are a bad idea. By the way, some folks did a bit of digging on that shot-through-the-car-seat ND story and there are a number of things that seem fishy about it. I'm inclined to believe it's fake, although the lesson it's teaching is definitely a good one, I'll post the article if I can find it again.

Ah yeah, you are right, I am definitely not familiar with non-polymer subcompacts, that is an excellent point. I don't know how I feel about calibers like .380 acp though. A lot of horror stories.

[B][U]Potential triggers below -Home Defense Situations -Shooting another individual/Stopping a threat -Lawsuits[/U][/B] Sorry about this, just don't wanna piss people off. So I have a couple questions about home defense and possible lawsuits if I ever had to point my handgun at an individual in my own home. First off, I live in Texas in the DFW/Tarrant County area, so it's the city but not like middle of Dallas where there's nothing but noise 24/7. My Glock 20 is currently my Home Defense gun because it's the only handgun I own and have 24/7 unrestricted access to. 1. Will having any "Custom" parts put me in a bad situation if I had to potentially shoot someone? Because this gun is going to have night sights, a torch, extended slide lock and release as well as a custom slide cover plate. Last thing I want is to be thrown in prison because "I was looking for trouble" within my own home or in my truck... 2. Is over penetration with the 10mm and some Speer gold dots an issue? Because again, I really would not want to shoot something else by mistake after shooting any potential threat. Again sorry for the questions and if anyone gets mad but, it's a real possibility that nobody wants to go through but everyone should be prepared for. At least that's how I think of it.

I hope you're joking about the trigger warning. 1 - Best ask a lawyer. From what I've heard however, you'll be fine as long as your gun doesn't have "This kills niggers" written on the side. A flashlight and a few custom parts is nothing. What you have to watch out for is hand loaded or "specialty" ammo. They may argue that you hand loaded or chose stupid specialty ammo to causing "extra wounding". 2 - No more than any other pistol caliber. If you're really worried about it get some [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug]Glaser Safety Slugs[/url]. Otherwise, just buy 10mm ammo with the lightest projectile you can find. [editline]12th March 2015[/editline] Some people online are saying Glasers are shit though, so you might want to do your own research.

[QUOTE=Zerokateo;47302616][B][U]Potential triggers below -Home Defense Situations -Shooting another individual/Stopping a threat -Lawsuits[/U][/B] Sorry about this, just don't wanna piss people off. So I have a couple questions about home defense and possible lawsuits if I ever had to point my handgun at an individual in my own home. First off, I live in Texas in the DFW/Tarrant County area, so it's the city but not like middle of Dallas where there's nothing but noise 24/7. My Glock 20 is currently my Home Defense gun because it's the only handgun I own and have 24/7 unrestricted access to. 1. Will having any "Custom" parts put me in a bad situation if I had to potentially shoot someone? Because this gun is going to have night sights, a torch, extended slide lock and release as well as a custom slide cover plate. Last thing I want is to be thrown in prison because "I was looking for trouble" within my own home or in my truck... 2. Is over penetration with the 10mm and some Speer gold dots an issue? Because again, I really would not want to shoot something else by mistake after shooting any potential threat. Again sorry for the questions and if anyone gets mad but, it's a real possibility that nobody wants to go through but everyone should be prepared for. At least that's how I think of it.[/QUOTE] The only custom parts I wouldn't have for your carry gun are the Punisher, etc. back plate and floor plates. 10mm overpenetration: Depends on what ammo you're using; if you're using the stuff loaded to .40 velocity, sure, it is possible, but unlikely with Gold Dots. If you're using the real deal 10mm ammo from Underwood with Gold Dots or XTPs in the 135-155gr region, the bullets will come apart inside the target because they aren't designed for 10mm speeds.

My non-legal advice idea that I went with for my home defense pistol is to stick with purely functional mods, i.e. upgraded sights and a streamlight, I'd say as long as you don't have one of those "infidel/pork eating crusader/white pride/punisher skull/klansman and proud/whatever" backplates or a pistol bayonet on it you're probably fine. I went with 9mm purely for the cheap(er) ammo and the fact that I really like my P07 but the Air Marshals use 10mm/357 Sig (I could be wrong) so I can't imagine 10mm would be too bad on over penetration unless you live in a house built in Japan or your walls are entirely made of chipboard and plywood.