[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;47351823]The Cabela's over here zips ties all guns on the used rack. Can't test actions at all. LGS is a different story.[/QUOTE]
Will they allow you to test the actions at all or do they expect you to buy as is and untested?
Kinda odd question, but on my Gew 98, the bolt handle has three sets of numbers, with two crossed out
Like this:
[quote]
[del]54 34[/del]
[del]13 75[/del]
39 77
~below this is a t symbol~
[/quote]
Any idea what I'm looking at?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47352285]Kinda odd question, but on my Gew 98, the bolt handle has three sets of numbers, with two crossed out
Like this:
Any idea what I'm looking at?[/QUOTE]
The did that with Finnish Mosins as well, they force matched the parts and added matching numbers.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47344903]500 .22 take up the same amount of space as 25 12GA. So yes, it is conceivable to believe that you could have several thousand rounds of .22.[/QUOTE]
but why? by the time you use 1000 rounds of ammunition in a shtf situation you'd be 80, unless you have to use it in self defense all the time which .22lr is zero good for
[QUOTE=hydrated;47352977]but why? by the time you use 1000 rounds of ammunition in a shtf situation you'd be 80, unless you have to use it in self defense all the time which .22lr is zero good for[/QUOTE]
Because 50 rounds of anything isn't enough for a SHTF scenario.
It's also pretty easy to go through 1000 rounds through hunting, self defense and practice, plus they would make pretty good trading material.
50 well placed rounds will give you 50 days of food (assuming no refrigeration) and half a deer worth of meat will give you way more trading material than any amount of ammunition
But I still have 950 rounds plus just as much meat?
Not related:
I my brother and I just had our first firearms inspection by the police. They showed up unannounced and I spent the whole time freaking out that they might look out the window and see my brothers weed plant in the garden or that we had broken some small tidbit of firearms law.
yeah except you have to shoot for the head to kill those deer. I shouldn't have to tell you the problem with that, but if I do just go ahead and google search for "deer headshot" and look at all the pictures of living deer with their jaws blown off or arrows stuck in their faces
[editline]19th March 2015[/editline]
a deer's brain is about the size of a tennis ball. if you want to practice making headshots on a deer, grab your favorite .22, set up a tennis ball on a string about 50 yards away, and let the wind blow it around to simulate the deer looking around. If you think you can reliably hit that target, go for it, but I'd put money on the table saying you can't.
[editline]19th March 2015[/editline]
the head is a 2 inch target and the body is a 7 inch mostly stationary target, you do the math
[QUOTE=ksenior;47344188]Any turkey hunters here? I'm having an argument with someone online (so unusual!) and he insists that in a SHTF scenario he wants a 12G over a .22lr for hunting because of turkeys.
So far he has insisted that a chest shot with a .22lr won't kill it and that you can't hit a turkey in the head with a rifle. I've mostly been arguing from the standpoint that weight for weight .22lr has 12x as many rounds than a 12G so even missing every couple of turkeys or requiring a follow up shot means in an equivalent situation .22lr would still up a 12G.
With that, I think I'm going to put my BOB together. I've been meaning to for a while.[/QUOTE]
I don't give much credence to SHTF stuff but I figured I would make a point about sustainability and utility anyways.
The 12GA chambering is the most versatile in the world. With the proper ammo it's plenty sufficient for anything that lives on most continents. It's also reloadable, cheap, plentiful, and the weapons that fire it are generally some of the simplest on earth.
The perfect weapon in terms of versatility and sustainability is the single shot 12GA shotgun. Something like an H&R pardner with a modified choke and a 28 inch barrel. They're light (with the downside of frightening recoil), cheap, accurate, simple, typically well built, and can easily accept breech insert cartridge adapters that allow them to fire all the most common rounds available in the US. You could put a .22 adapter in it and carry both types of rounds. You could shoot .223, even .308 out of it. You can put a 209 shotgun primer adapter in it and make it into an expedient blackpowder muzzleloader.
When it comes to reliability, .22lr is one of the least reliable rounds commonly available in certain actions and is not reloadable. If industrial society forever ceased to function, the supply would dry up fast.
You shouldn't expect to rely on your ability to make a super precise shot with a .22 under potentially adverse conditions. There's a reason people don't use them to hunt turkeys, and you shouldn't assume that you know better.
Also, under the mythical "SHTF" situation you would almost certainly not be shooting your firearms nearly as much as you think you might, so the amount of ammo you can carry isn't nearly as important as the amount of ammo you can find. If ultralight hunting is your concern, you can take most game that .22lr is typically used for with a PCP airgun. Something like the Benjamin Marauder pistol will kill rabbits and squirrels, is integrally suppressed, has a barrel shorter than the NFA cutoff for rifles, is substantially lighter, and you can carry upwards of five hundred rounds in a small tin. All this without any tax stamps.
A .22lr rifle is a useful tool, but it's not a mythical superweapon (nor is the single shot shotgun, it's far from the ideal defensive weapon) that can be expected to accomplish anything just because of the shot placement argument.
[QUOTE=hydrated;47353281]yeah except you have to shoot for the head to kill those deer. I shouldn't have to tell you the problem with that, but if I do just go ahead and google search for "deer headshot" and look at all the pictures of living deer with their jaws blown off or arrows stuck in their faces
[editline]19th March 2015[/editline]
a deer's brain is about the size of a tennis ball. if you want to practice making headshots on a deer, grab your favorite .22, set up a tennis ball on a string about 50 yards away, and let the wind blow it around to simulate the deer looking around. If you think you can reliably hit that target, go for it, but I'd put money on the table saying you can't.
[editline]19th March 2015[/editline]
the head is a 2 inch target and the body is a 7 inch mostly stationary target, you do the math[/QUOTE]
Again, I have 12x as many rounds and humane animal shooting is far from my first priority in a survival situation.
[QUOTE=ksenior;47353445]Again, I have 12x as many rounds and humane animal shooting is far from my first priority in a survival situation.[/QUOTE]
Humane shooting is your first priority. People want clean quick kills because a wounded animal is an animal that gets away, or at the very least an animal you'll be following for upwards of a mile, wasting valuable energy. Shooting it in the head and not hitting the brain means it's survived, and you're not eating it, and your shot scared away the rest of the forest.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;47353429]I don't give much credence to SHTF stuff but I figured I would make a point about sustainability and utility anyways.
The 12GA chambering is the most versatile in the world. With the proper ammo it's plenty sufficient for anything that lives on most continents. It's also reloadable, cheap, plentiful, and the weapons that fire it are generally some of the simplest on earth.
The perfect weapon in terms of versatility and sustainability is the single shot 12GA shotgun. Something like an H&R pardner with a modified choke and a 28 inch barrel. They're light (with the downside of frightening recoil), cheap, accurate, simple, typically well built, and can easily accept breech insert cartridge adapters that allow them to fire all the most common rounds available in the US. You could put a .22 adapter in it and carry both types of rounds. You could shoot .223, even .308 out of it. You can put a 209 shotgun primer adapter in it and make it into an expedient blackpowder muzzleloader.
When it comes to reliability, .22lr is one of the least reliable rounds commonly available in certain actions and is not reloadable. If industrial society forever ceased to function, the supply would dry up fast.
You shouldn't expect to rely on your ability to make a super precise shot with a .22 under potentially adverse conditions. There's a reason people don't use them to hunt turkeys, and you shouldn't assume that you know better.
Also, under the mythical "SHTF" situation you would almost certainly not be shooting your firearms nearly as much as you think you might, so the amount of ammo you can carry isn't nearly as important as the amount of ammo you can find. If ultralight hunting is your concern, you can take most game that .22lr is typically used for with a PCP airgun. Something like the Benjamin Marauder pistol will kill rabbits and squirrels, is integrally suppressed, has a barrel shorter than the NFA cutoff for rifles, is substantially lighter, and you can carry upwards of five hundred rounds in a small tin. All this without any tax stamps.
A .22lr rifle is a useful tool, but it's not a mythical superweapon (nor is the single shot shotgun, it's far from the ideal defensive weapon) that can be expected to accomplish anything just because of the shot placement argument.[/QUOTE]
I never said it was superweapon. All I'm saying is that it is a better option over a shotgun and that its light weight (both ammo and rifle) makes it popular for throwing in with a BOB.
Yes, practically everything else is better in terms of range and lethality, and can be reloaded (in some ways a moot point as primers and powder don't grow on trees).
As for a PCP airgun, that's an awful choice. They're far from simple and little o rings are going to be a pain to get. They're not common either making spare parts difficult.
Frankly, if you insist on heavier ammo, you might as well buy a milsurp rifle seeing as it's far more lethal, still has ammo lighter than 12G shells and has 10x the effective range.
[QUOTE=ksenior;47353471]I never said it was superweapon. All I'm saying is that it is a better option over a shotgun and that its light weight (both ammo and rifle) makes it popular for throwing in with a BOB.
Yes, practically everything else is better in terms of range and lethality, and can be reloaded (in some ways a moot point as primers and powder don't grow on trees).
As for a PCP airgun, that's an awful choice. They're far from simple and little o rings are going to be a pain to get. They're not common either making spare parts difficult.
Frankly, if you insist on heavier ammo, you might as well buy a milsurp rifle seeing as it's far more lethal, still has ammo lighter than 12G shells and has 10x the effective range.[/QUOTE]
A single shot 12GA can be the same weight as a base 10/22. They're exceedingly light.
You can make gunpowder out of ground up match heads.
You can't reliably kill birds in flight with a milsurp rifle, it's not appropriate for small game, it probably weighs twice as much, and ammo is going to be far less common (especially if we're talking ideal weapons like a K-31 or a Mauser 98-pattern.). There's nothing about a milsurp rifle that makes it "far more lethal" than a 12GA shotgun. It just has more military utility.
Bought a TWS dogleg rail second hand from a guy on an AK forum, same place I sold my PK01V at. My gun is coming together! :D
Guys, not sure if you have been paying attention to the Hollis v. Holder case, but the ATF might be getting a paddling very soon.
The Heller Foundation has waved it's banner, and is going to fully support Hollis in his case, and if it goes to the Supreme Court, we might be seeing the strike down of the Hughes Amendment within the next year or so.
Is this is the guy who got a stamp for an unregistered machine gun right?
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;47358641]Is this is the guy who got a stamp for an unregistered machine gun right?[/QUOTE]
He got a stamp to [i]build a new machinegun[/i], even better.
And he is also collecting evidence of several other cases where similar has happened. The judge is apparently sympathetic to Hollis thus far, after the ATF basically stated, "We change rules when we feel like it."
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47358937]And he is also collecting evidence of several other cases where similar has happened. The judge is apparently sympathetic to Hollis thus far, after the ATF basically stated, "We change rules when we feel like it."[/QUOTE]
Because they do, and were given the authority to do so; they have however determined that that is arbitrary and capricious on the part of the BATFE (and really big fires).
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47353682]making ammo for 12ga is not very quick to do, think about how hard matches are going to be to find after a while. it's not like loading 10 rounds of 12ga needs a total of one box of matches either, we're talking a ton[/QUOTE]
Why does everyone forget about flintlock shotguns?
It's not like people have been using them for hundreds of years, and you can put literally anything in them.
[QUOTE=ksenior;47353445]Again, I have 12x as many rounds and humane animal shooting is far from my first priority in a survival situation.[/QUOTE]
if humanely killing your game isn't priority number 1 then you really shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=ksenior;47353471]I never said it was superweapon. All I'm saying is that it is a better option over a shotgun and that its light weight (both ammo and rifle) makes it popular for throwing in with a BOB.
Yes, practically everything else is better in terms of range and lethality, and can be reloaded (in some ways a moot point as primers and powder don't grow on trees).
As for a PCP airgun, that's an awful choice. They're far from simple and little o rings are going to be a pain to get. They're not common either making spare parts difficult.
Frankly, if you insist on heavier ammo, you might as well buy a milsurp rifle seeing as it's far more lethal, still has ammo lighter than 12G shells and has 10x the effective range.[/QUOTE]
there are plenty of airtight things other than o-rings (which if you oil regularly will never go bad). silicone sealant is a prime example, the only people using it in shtf will be people who want to fix or modify their boats and people who want to run airguns since it's a fairly expensive way to make something watertight compared to epoxy
[QUOTE=hydrated;47360273]if humanely killing your game isn't priority number 1 then you really shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm[/QUOTE]
If you're going to say stupid things like that I'm not going to debate this with you.
No one else is going to be putting the humane killing of animals at no. 1 when they're running for their lives :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=ksenior;47360406]If you're going to say stupid things like that I'm not going to debate this with you.
No one else is going to be putting the humane killing of animals at no. 1 when they're running for their lives :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
We already explained this. Please never hunt until someone manages to open your eyes.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;47360451]We already explained this. Please never hunt until someone manages to open your eyes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47360579]as if your little crazy dream about shit hitting the fan will ever come true either way?
grow up[/QUOTE]
I do not know at all how you can equate how one would hunt in a SHTF with how I would hunt normally when I have access to proper equipment.
One is for my life and the other is for pleasure. Big difference there.
I would argue that not being able to differentiate between fantasy and real life is a sign of not having grown up.
And Pruss, if you're not interested in this discussion, ignore it and move on, rather than post once then bitch about it.
For the last time, the concept of humane shooting doesn't concern morality as much as it does actually killing the animal on the spot. If you miss the extremely precise killzone that may or may not exist on a given animal when it comes to the .22lr cartridge on a moving target at range, you will not kill the animal, it will run away, and you will not eat. Things don't just automatically die because you hit them in the head. It has to penetrate the skull and damage the brain.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47360579]as if your little crazy dream about shit hitting the fan will ever come true either way?
grow up[/QUOTE]
Not weighing in re: humane killing, but I've lived in a warzone and have worked in countries where the possibility of needing to leave in a hurry and be armed is a serious thing. My father was a VP of a global security company and my mother is a FEMA manager and they both worked/work with these kinds of preparatory scenarios. It's a mistake to assume all discussion of SHTF scenarios means the zombie apocalypse, because the basic principle of needing to defend yourself and provide for yourself when rule of law no longer exists is something that actually happens, even here in the cushy first world.
I don't see why any of you are chastising ksenior, he's stated like 5 times that he's talking extreme survival scenario only, not your average normal hunt day. If you're in like a The Road setting, I can agree.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47361002]aiming for the head is full retard any way[/QUOTE]
The human animal shooting guide here in Australia says to go for the head. Don't think anyone actually follows it though outside of roo shooters who are watched carefully and will lose their licenses for violations.
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
It's published by the federal government.
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;47360906]I don't see why any of you are chastising ksenior, he's stated like 5 times that he's talking extreme survival scenario only, not your average normal hunt day. If you're in like a The Road setting, I can agree.[/QUOTE]
because if it doesn't die you don't eat, it just runs away with it's jaw blown off
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=ksenior;47361117]The human animal shooting guide here in Australia says to go for the head. Don't think anyone actually follows it though outside of roo shooters who are watched carefully and will lose their licenses for violations.
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
It's published by the federal government.[/QUOTE]
is the federal government really someone to trust in an shtf situation?
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