[QUOTE=MAC21500;47447669]Why bother with the Zastava M77, you can buy VEPR .308s which have much more plentiful mags and furniture options.[/QUOTE]
Because the M77 is about $200 cheaper, has a retainer ring so you can actually mount a foreend that doesn't mongle dicks, has a gas tube retainer ring so you can actually put a gas cover on it, it's got a threaded barrel, theres already mods you can buy that lets it take AR stocks and pistol grips, and it can take M14/M1A mags with some minor modifications.
Honestly I'll never buy a VEPR or a Saiga ever again for that reason. The amount of money you have to pump into one of those guns is absolutely ridiculous for the marginal advantage you have to get out of it. If I wanted to make a Vepr 308 not suck, I'd have to dump an additional $100-$300 into it in parts and gunsmithing. Where as with the M77, all I gotta buy is a stock adapter and some M1A mags and I'm set.
[QUOTE=download;47448580]I would argue that it was negligence because you didn't properly maintain your firearm.[/QUOTE]
If doing nothing but using the weapon as intended can wear it down to the point where normal, safe handling (such as engaging the safety/decocker) can cause a discharge, then that's the fault of the gun, not of the user, who should not be expected to be a skilled gunsmith just to keep the weapon's safety devices functioning as they should.
I'd say any weapon that can discharge when handled properly by its user in accordance with the basic rules of firearms safety is a deficient design.
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;47448284]Why when the Vortex Spitfire is better?[/QUOTE]
Don't have any experience with the Spitfire, so I can't comment on it.
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;47448541]Any good single shot, really. I just would prefer an older one because I'd like to take a "junk" one and give it new life, as well as having a firearm I made/modified be something so pass down to my kids some day.[/QUOTE]
You're better off searching other gun boards' classifieds or gun shows.
The best thing i have found, but still a lot of money is to do convert this gun.
[URL]http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=475346791#PIC[/URL]
Larry Potterfield shows it in the vid.
[video=youtube;w0RS5-LKBlA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0RS5-LKBlA[/video]
I wish I had more time while I'm here in Florida. There's a range that has an automatic VEPR 12.
I'm just going to replace the mounting wedge and screw. I ordered a Quick detach upgrade kit for 20 bucks. Hopefully it works.
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47449377]Because the M77 is about $200 cheaper, has a retainer ring so you can actually mount a foreend that doesn't mongle dicks, has a gas tube retainer ring so you can actually put a gas cover on it, it's got a threaded barrel, theres already mods you can buy that lets it take AR stocks and pistol grips, and it can take M14/M1A mags with some minor modifications.
Honestly I'll never buy a VEPR or a Saiga ever again for that reason. The amount of money you have to pump into one of those guns is absolutely ridiculous for the marginal advantage you have to get out of it. If I wanted to make a Vepr 308 not suck, I'd have to dump an additional $100-$300 into it in parts and gunsmithing. Where as with the M77, all I gotta buy is a stock adapter and some M1A mags and I'm set.[/QUOTE]
Check out this thread for the pros and cons for the .308 VEPR and the Yugo M77
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/158772_M76_and_differences_with_VEPR_in__308_54R__Which_is_essentially_better__.html[/url]
[img]http://puu.sh/h0zqp/112689bb1a.jpg[/img]
So my first gun.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47452405]Check out this thread for the pros and cons for the .308 VEPR and the Yugo M77
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/158772_M76_and_differences_with_VEPR_in__308_54R__Which_is_essentially_better__.html[/url][/QUOTE]
With all do respect, Ar15.com is a literal shithole of gun community and I would sooner go to a PTA meeting for their advice on AK based platforms.
I'm not denying that a VEPR can be a good gun, because it is one. Right out of the box it's extremely accurate and very versatile, it's just that if you don't want it to be a unfun fudd hoontin rafle, you have to dump several hundred dollars into it for parts and gunsmithing, which is something you don't have to do with the Zastava M77.
Another thing is that despite what everyone says, the difference in quality between modern AK manufacturers is negligible, especially between Zastava and Vepr. Your standard WASR10/63 is going to be just as hilariously outdated as your overpriced milled Arsenal AKM and they're going to run equally as well.The only real difference between them is going to be the finish and bluing on the rifles and thats not something anyone should give a shit about on an AK platform. The finish on the Saiga I owned was actually worse than the finish on my WASR10/63
My whole point here is that I can do more with the M77 out of the box for cheaper and any marginal quality advantage in the VEPR is marginal to a shooter such as myself. Being able to get a half milometer tighter MOA at 300 yards means nothing to me, so I'm not going to spend $200 more to achieve that.
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47452920][b]With all do respect, Ar15.com is a literal shithole of gun community and I would sooner go to a PTA meeting for their advice on AK based platforms.[/b]
I'm not denying that a VEPR can be a good gun, because it is one. Right out of the box it's extremely accurate and very versatile, it's just that if you don't want it to be a unfun fudd hoontin rafle, you have to dump several hundred dollars into it for parts and gunsmithing, which is something you don't have to do with the Zastava M77.
Another thing is that despite what everyone says, the difference in quality between modern AK manufacturers is negligible, especially between Zastava and Vepr. Your standard WASR10/63 is going to be just as hilariously outdated as your overpriced milled Arsenal AKM and they're going to run equally as well.The only real difference between them is going to be the finish and bluing on the rifles and thats not something anyone should give a shit about on an AK platform. The finish on the Saiga I owned was actually worse than the finish on my WASR10/63
My whole point here is that I can do more with the M77 out of the box for cheaper and any marginal quality advantage in the VEPR is marginal to a shooter such as myself. Being able to get a half milometer tighter MOA at 300 yards means nothing to me, so I'm not going to spend $200 more to achieve that.[/QUOTE]
Tell us how you really feel.
Their AK section is pretty knowledgeable, many members pulling double duty on AKfiles.
I'd agree with you about the VEPR vs M77, if all you want is a cost savings.
You don't want to spend $200 more on accuracy, but you want to spend that $200 on furniture commonality.
Do you have a bug up your butt about Arsenal or something? This seems like a really sore point with you.
It is well known that Arsenal and Saiga (not sure about Molot) finishes come off with Hoppes, etc.
I've seen Arsenals with canted sights just like WASRs, and sure, the WASRs work [i]now[/i], go back 5 years or more and the rule of thumb was to avoid the hell out of Century products.
I don't visit the actual AR-15 side of the forum because it is full of the types of people who fap about this and that type of aluminum and steel and which fancy new coating and or snake oil is the most lubricious.
Not to mention every little gadget and tacticool celebrity.
That being said, every forum has a shithole in it.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47453390]Tell us how you really feel.
Their AK section is pretty knowledgeable, many members pulling double duty on AKfiles.
I'd agree with you about the VEPR vs M77, if all you want is a cost savings.
You don't want to spend $200 more on accuracy, but you want to spend that $200 on furniture commonality.
Do you have a bug up your butt about Arsenal or something? This seems like a really sore point with you.
It is well known that Arsenal and Saiga (not sure about Molot) finishes come off with Hoppes, etc.
I've seen Arsenals with canted sights just like WASRs, and sure, the WASRs work [i]now[/i], go back 5 years or more and the rule of thumb was to avoid the hell out of Century products.
I don't visit the actual AR-15 side of the forum because it is full of the types of people who fap about this and that type of aluminum and steel and which fancy new coating and or snake oil is the most lubricious.
Not to mention every little gadget and tacticool celebrity.
That being said, every forum has a shithole in it.[/QUOTE]
All I'm saying is that AR15.com probably caused the holocaust and I'm pretty sure they're connected with 9/11.
Yea Arsenal and Saiga finishes wash off and thats a pretty shitty thing to happen for a $1,100 rifles (or $500 if you buy a trash-grade fudd-style Saiga). They're just not worth the money you put into them, plain and simple. And WASR's used to suck 5 years ago yea, but thats besides the point. For $1,100, you could buy a kick ass WASR, a kick ass overpriced Russian optic, and some nice furniture for the WASR. Or you could just buy a baseline arsenal whose paint is gonna come off if it gets damp.
[editline]4th April 2015[/editline]
To make a car comparison, if you drop 60 grand on a nice brand new BMW, and you use rainx car wash over the whole thing when you get home and the paint washes off, "well this is known to happen" isn't gonna be your response.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;47450642]You're better off searching other gun boards' classifieds or gun shows.
The best thing i have found, but still a lot of money is to do convert this gun.
[URL]http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=475346791#PIC[/URL]
Larry Potterfield shows it in the vid.
[video=youtube;w0RS5-LKBlA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0RS5-LKBlA[/video][/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;8d2X3vXxMy0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d2X3vXxMy0[/video]
Good read/watch.
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47453429] [b]Or you could just buy a baseline arsenal whose paint is gonna come off if it gets damp.[/b]
[/QUOTE]
[img]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/ak-scans/images/c/c9/Bizon.png/revision/latest?cb=20131105133627[/img]
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47452916][img]http://puu.sh/h0zqp/112689bb1a.jpg[/img]
So my first gun.[/QUOTE]
What is it? Is it an antique? I mean, it's not often Canadians get a handgun as their first gun.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47453679]What is it? Is it an antique? I mean, it's not often Canadians get a handgun as their first gun.[/QUOTE]
Yes antique still trying to find out the maker it needs some TLC first its a bit worn.Its 150 or so years old.
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47453809]Yes antique still trying to find out the maker it needs some TLC first its a bit worn.Its 150 or so years old.[/QUOTE]
I hope you're not actually planning to shoot it.
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47453845]I hope you're not actually planning to shoot it.[/QUOTE]
Why not? Aside from the difficulty in finding ammo for guns that old, there shouldn't be any issues unless the gun looks like it's going to fall to pieces. People still shoot guns made in the 1800s no problem.
Granted, not may places he could shoot it, and they may not sell him black powder without a gun license.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47453885]Why not? Aside from the difficulty in finding ammo for guns that old, there shouldn't be any issues unless the gun looks like it's going to fall to pieces. People still shoot guns made in the 1800s no problem.
Granted, not may places he could shoot it, and they may not sell him black powder without a gun license.[/QUOTE]
powder and primers fall under the mines and energy act so dont need firearms license for it and brass and lead arnt considered ammo either.
I intend on shooting it if it is deemed safe to do so.
I regularly shoot century+ old guns. If it's safe, it's safe. Age isn't really a concern.
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47454073]powder and primers fall under the mines and energy act so dont need firearms license for it and brass and lead arnt considered ammo either.
I intend on shooting it if it is deemed safe to do so.[/QUOTE]
No, but it is a criminal code offence to manufacture or possess cartridge ammunition without a firearms license, so if it's cartridge-fed, you need a license. If it's black powder cap-and-ball you're fine.
[editline]3rd April 2015[/editline]
So a Canadian company is building a single-shot .50BMG bolt-action upper for the AR-15:
[url]https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/da50-50-bmg-36-upper-receiver/[/url]
Sarah Brady's dead.
[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/US/sarah-brady-wife-white-house-secretary-jim-brady/story?id=30091174[/URL]
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47454395]
So a Canadian company is building a single-shot .50BMG bolt-action upper for the AR-15:
[url]https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/da50-50-bmg-36-upper-receiver/[/url][/QUOTE]
Those have been around for a while. I saw variant from one company that had .338 Lapua and even a 5 shot side mag fed bolt action .50 BMG.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47454395]No, but it is a criminal code offence to manufacture or possess cartridge ammunition without a firearms license, so if it's cartridge-fed, you need a license. If it's black powder cap-and-ball you're fine.
[editline]3rd April 2015[/editline]
So a Canadian company is building a single-shot .50BMG bolt-action upper for the AR-15:
[url]https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/da50-50-bmg-36-upper-receiver/[/url][/QUOTE]
Lol where did you hear that bullshit, you can possess all the ammo you want, hell you can even reload your own without a license. You just need a PAL to purchase live ammunition.
If I had a antique revolver I'd reload my own ammo and shoot cans in my backyard all day long.
so took the gun apart and put it back together determined It has similar workings as the nagant 1887 and that I am missing a spring that gos forward of the trigger,the cylinder stop is worn to a point where it doesnt work right the Pawl dosent work as well as it should it also appears to be chambered in 7.5mm Nagant.
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47455238]so took the gun apart and put it back together determined It has similar workings as the nagant 1887 and that I am missing a spring that gos forward of the trigger,the cylinder stop is worn to a point where it doesnt work right the Pawl dosent work as well as it should it also appears to be chambered in 7.5mm Nagant.[/QUOTE]
How much did you pay for it? I know you can get a working mk1 chambered in .45acp for ~ 2 grand.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;47455631]How much did you pay for it? I know you can get a working mk1 chambered in .45acp for ~ 2 grand.[/QUOTE]
400$.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;47454884]Lol where did you hear that bullshit, you can possess all the ammo you want, hell you can even reload your own without a license. You just need a PAL to purchase live ammunition.
If I had a antique revolver I'd reload my own ammo and shoot cans in my backyard all day long.[/QUOTE]
I heard it by checking the criminal code myself when I was unsure if you needed a license to own or reload ammo. You do.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47455774]I heard it by checking the criminal code myself when I was unsure if you needed a license to own or reload ammo. You do.[/QUOTE]
Not worried about that part I just have to send in my paperwork for my PAL I just havnt yet because I moved a couple times and really had no reason to have it yet.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47455774]I heard it by checking the criminal code myself when I was unsure if you needed a license to own or reload ammo. You do.[/QUOTE]
[quote=wiki]The Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) is the primary license for possession of a firearm and acquisition of ammunition, and it is both required and the only permissible document for an individual to acquire or permanently import a firearm. Applicants must be 18 years of age. There is no requirement of citizenship or residency (although different forms, and slightly different requirements apply)[/quote]
Nope, even on the firearms program rcmp hotline it tells you that you need a license to possess and acquire firearms and to acquire ammunition.
It doesn't matter if the act says somewhere that the moon is made of cheese, its the RCMP's interpretation that matters.
Also where in the act did it say that?
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