[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47462985]922r sounds like the stupidest fucking thing, but the issue with it is if we had something like that here, it'd easily murder the firearms market in Canada, so I'm sure gun control advocates are looking at shit like that and thinking.[/QUOTE]
Thats basically the point of 922r. If we don't inject some shitty, poorly manufactured, American Capitalism into those dirty commie guns, then they will outsell the American market by a longshot because they're so much cheaper.
Thats also the reason the NRA hasn't ever fought the ban on Russian and Chinese import bans, and didn't fight the ban on Izmash import ban. Nobody in the US would buy a US made AK for $500-1,500 when they could buy a Norinco/polytech for $250, and nobody would pay $1000-2,000 for an M1A when they could get a Polytech M-14 for $500.
Nobody would pay $1 a round for winchester 7.62x39 when you can get a crate of the shit from China for a millionth of the price.
If chinese guns ever make it back to the US market, they will absolutely murder American gun manufacturers and actually force them to be competitive with their pricing and not gouge the shit out of Americans.
I think the US gun market would collapse temporarily if China was allowed to import again. Or there would be severe import restrictions like other items have. Harley has asked import restrictions on all motorcycles so they can dominate the classic motorcycle market, and they get it every year.
i just picture a guy in a hugo boss suit sitting on some ikea furniture and staring out of a crystal glass house overlooking the beach while reading a newspaper about the all the lower class americans bitching about 922r
and then he swirls around a diamond shaped ice-cube in a glass of scotch, chuckling like a smug fucker
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47465449]Thats basically the point of 922r. If we don't inject some shitty, poorly manufactured, American Capitalism into those dirty commie guns, then they will outsell the American market by a longshot because they're so much cheaper.
Thats also the reason the NRA hasn't ever fought the ban on Russian and Chinese import bans, and didn't fight the ban on Izmash import ban. Nobody in the US would buy a US made AK for $500-1,500 when they could buy a Norinco/polytech for $250, and nobody would pay $1000-2,000 for an M1A when they could get a Polytech M-14 for $500.
Nobody would pay $1 a round for winchester 7.62x39 when you can get a crate of the shit from China for a millionth of the price.
If chinese guns ever make it back to the US market, they will absolutely murder American gun manufacturers and actually force them to be competitive with their pricing and not gouge the shit out of Americans.[/QUOTE]
The Canadians don't exactly pay dirt cheap prices for Chicom goodies though; I'd expect their prices in the US to be on par with the eastern european imports.
That being said, the reason for the cheap chinese ammo in the first place was that it was steel core milsurp, which if we could still get it, not just new production ammo, it would be as cheap as 7N6 at 15 cents a round.
Chinese imports wouldn't destroy the American gun market in the same way that cheap Russian ammo doesn't destroy the ammo market; sure, some of their products would be cheaper than US made ones, but most would come in at market value.
They'd have to under price WASRs and Yugos at $450, their $500 ARs would compete with most of the lower end US made ARs between $500-800.
They aren't producing anythin to compete with the latest craze however, the $2K+ polymer wunder rifle or bullpup.
Best we could hope for is that they got into a price war with Russia/Eastern Europe that would drive ammo and AK prices through the floor.
[editline]6th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47465957]I'm kinda pissed off about how the fuck ugly Arsenal M1s are legal here (7,62x39 or .223 AKs, milled receiver, yet they have AK74 style gas blocks??? it looks absolutely stupid), yet civilian vzor 58s aren't.. probably won't ever be either[/QUOTE]
How are AKs legal and VZ-58s aren't?
Canada is the opposite of you...
gunlawproblems
Also, about those gas blocks:
"This is the 90-degree gas block which was introduced into Russian AK-74 production in about 1977. This design change corrected a problem associated with the higher velocity of the 5,45mm used with a slant gas vent and it's associated angled gas block. Going to a 90-degree gas vent eliminated "bullet shear" and the new gas block made cleaning the vent much easier.
Earlier Russian AK-74's had a 45-degree angle gas vent on the barrel and used an AKM-type angled gas block. It was found that the angled gas vent hole on the bore (and therefore longer groove) was causing the bullet to shear off metal as it passed this point in the barrel. This was something never encountered in the slower moving AKM bullet. Going to a 90-degree drilled gas vent, and drilling it in the groove instead of the land. corrected this and also was said to increase accuracy. The Russians designed a new gas block to accompany the new hole, which made cleaning out the vent easier."
Chinese shit here is actually dirt cheap. China makes one of the only ARs under a grand, the Norinco CQ-A is regularly seen for around $600. Their 1911s are $350, their M-14s are $500-$600, we can get shotguns from them for prices anywhere from $100-$700, depending on action type, and we get crates of ammo from them for dirt cheap. The most expensive thing we get from China is the T97, which is about $1100.
Most American shit is around a grand for anything half-decent. The Chinese would definitely fuck with American gun companies' prices, especially since they'd be able to make more for cheaper due to the larger market, so we'd benefit from that too. The biggest detriment to us would be ammo and surplus guns, they'd become more expensive and harder to find here because you guys would buy all of them.
I'm for allowing imports, but I'd tariff the shit out of all of it but the ammunition. Ensure that you CAN buy the interesting and unique pieces that aren't made domestically, but also make sure that we don't lose of the few manufacturing industries we have remaining.
Ammunition would remain exempt because, even after years of trying, we still can't even remotely keep up with the demand for ammunition. May as well allow importation of the shit.
I bought one of these beauties used a few weeks back for about $400. (After a case, rounds, insurance, etc.)
[IMG]http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cz-usa-cz-p-011.png[/IMG]
I love the feel, and it's ridiculously easy to field strip.
My only complaint is the rarity of aftermarket parts and the lack of a safety.
Instead it has a manual de-cock lever.
I realize this is a stock image, but mine's identical.
Any of you guys have experience with one of these, or any CZ pistol?
My CZ75 Omega is my favorite pistol I own, you can't go wrong with CZ
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47466145]Chinese shit here is actually dirt cheap. China makes one of the only ARs under a grand, the Norinco CQ-A is regularly seen for around $600. Their 1911s are $350, their M-14s are $500-$600, we can get shotguns from them for prices anywhere from $100-$700, depending on action type, and we get crates of ammo from them for dirt cheap. The most expensive thing we get from China is the T97, which is about $1100.
Most American shit is around a grand for anything half-decent. The Chinese would definitely fuck with American gun companies' prices, especially since they'd be able to make more for cheaper due to the larger market, so we'd benefit from that too. The biggest detriment to us would be ammo and surplus guns, they'd become more expensive and harder to find here because you guys would buy all of them.[/QUOTE]
Damn right we would!
Are those prices USD or CAD?
Here is the canadian price for 2014 Norinco 7.62x39
"For context we normally pay minimum 40 cents a round for new production, non-corrosive, steel-cased Russian ammo. Corrosive steel-core surplus can be had as low as 16 or 17 cents a round.
The importer has this regular priced at $300 a case (25 cents/round) but had a "buy 3 get 4" sale on. The deal works out to just under 20 cents/round including tax and shipping."
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/stevo8904/IMG_0590Medium_zpsb11a810e.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/stevo8904/IMG_0593Medium_zps5add2dda.jpg[/img]
Some of MOLOTs current offerings:
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/9EIS19W.jpg?1[/thumb]
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/cVz6XJU.jpg?2[/thumb]
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/3pg0ylc.jpg?1[/thumb]
Hold on, are we getting refurbished SVT's in the U.S. or what?
Those prices were CAD. As for ammo, that was a Canadaammo special I believe. We regularly have corrosive surplus from ex-commie shitholes for $200/1440 rounds 7.62x39, and Chinese x54 is $250/1000. For non-corrosive and reloadable stuff, 1200-ish .223 is $380-$450 depending on retailer, and in the past we've had 1000 .308 for about $550 and 1000 .45 for about $399. Right now a 1911 and 500 .45 is about $600.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47466026]
They aren't producing anythin to compete with the latest craze however, the $2K+ polymer wunder rifle or bullpup.
[/QUOTE]
?????????
[img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/type-97-a-004.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Phantom Lord;47466232]I bought one of these beauties used a few weeks back for about $400. (After a case, rounds, insurance, etc.)
-snip-
I love the feel, and it's ridiculously easy to field strip.
My only complaint is the rarity of aftermarket parts and the lack of a safety.
Instead it has a manual de-cock lever.
I realize this is a stock image, but mine's identical.
Any of you guys have experience with one of these, or any CZ pistol?[/QUOTE]
I just bought a brand new P-07 which is the updated polymer version. In some ways, I would have much rather have a SP-01 since I prefer steel frames but it's still a good gun. It's going through a break-in period so it's not perfect but overall I'm happy with it.
Also, what's wrong with a decocker? I like them because they're intuitive and preferential for CC (in my experience)
[QUOTE=camaroni;47467163]Also, what's wrong with a decocker? I like them because they're intuitive and preferential for CC (in my experience)[/QUOTE]
A lot of people seem to like just the safety so they can carry cocked-and-locked like a 1911.
When you guys talk about some of the prices for guns, it makes me hate my area. $400 for a CZ75? I'd be lucky to get one for $500. Everything here is either close to MSRP or %15 less than MSRP. NWI sucks.
Okay guys, I'm meeting this dude later today. Is my Lithy Enfield No1 Mk3 for his Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless a good trade? The Hammerless is basically in flawless condition and dates to the 10s. He's also bringing a MAB model D which I might take instead with some cash on top.
The 1903 fires 32ACP? A enfield sounds more practical unless you're a collector
It's a .32 yeah, so is the MAB. I love my Enfield but .303 is getting hard to find and I'm always worried about the little rust patches getting worse, especially on the bayonet. The guy I'm trading it to is a collector so I know it'll be taken care of.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47467359]A lot of people seem to like just the safety so they can carry cocked-and-locked like a 1911.[/QUOTE]
Well with a decocker, you can still carry in Condition 1 or Condition 0 if you feel so inclined.
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47467094]?????????
[img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/type-97-a-004.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Somehow I knew you were going to bring that one up.
Yea, that was a modern polymer wunder bullpup circa the 1990s and it's just a 5.56 AK in bulpup configuration.
The AUG is older and better, the FS2000 is better, the Tavor is far better.
Ergonomics are terrible, optics mounting is terrible.
It would beat out those crappy bullpup AK kits for sure, but it can't really compete with any of the other bullpups that have been in the US market longer, or even those that have yet to be released.
It would be competing with other $1000 5.56 novelty guns until the US market decided to accessorize the hell out of it.
I want to cerakote my 1911, because the factory finish from RIA isn't the best. Thoughts? What about color? Its a fairly stock model in 9mm with Novak style sights and a large beaver tail, commander style hammer.
I want to either redo the grip panels or change them, too. The finish is very thin and they need to have a few dings ironed out, anyway.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47469803]Somehow I knew you were going to bring that one up.
Yea, that was a modern polymer wunder bullpup circa the 1990s and it's just a 5.56 AK in bulpup configuration.
The AUG is older and better, the FS2000 is better, the Tavor is far better.
Ergonomics are terrible, optics mounting is terrible.
It would beat out those crappy bullpup AK kits for sure, but it can't really compete with any of the other bullpups that have been in the US market longer, or even those that have yet to be released.
It would be competing with other $1000 5.56 novelty guns until the US market decided to accessorize the hell out of it.[/QUOTE]
It's one of only basically 2 bullpups legal here, it's non-restricted, and it's cheap compared to most other .223 semis. It enjoys immense popularity here because of that. There's also a version with a full-top upper rail for $1400.
If I ever get a vacation house in Canada, I'm keeping US restricted firearms there.
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;47470111]I want to cerakote my 1911, because the factory finish from RIA isn't the best. Thoughts? What about color? Its a fairly stock model in 9mm with Novak style sights and a large beaver tail, commander style hammer.
I want to either redo the grip panels or change them, too. The finish is very thin and they need to have a few dings ironed out, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Desert tan w/ black grips, yo. Makes it look pretty good, actually. I'd make sure the sights are dark too, though. I've always found lighter colored sidearm sights to be harder to use in general.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47469803]Somehow I knew you were going to bring that one up.
Yea, that was a modern polymer wunder bullpup circa the 1990s and it's just a 5.56 AK in bulpup configuration.
The AUG is older and better, the FS2000 is better, the Tavor is far better.
Ergonomics are terrible, optics mounting is terrible.
It would beat out those crappy bullpup AK kits for sure, but it can't really compete with any of the other bullpups that have been in the US market longer, or even those that have yet to be released.
It would be competing with other $1000 5.56 novelty guns until the US market decided to accessorize the hell out of it.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't fucking matter how old it is. You said there was no bullshit bullpup that the chinks offered and I proved you wrong. You can't stumble back and say that its probably marginally worse than something else that cost 3 times as much.
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;47470111]I want to cerakote my 1911, because the factory finish from RIA isn't the best. Thoughts? What about color? Its a fairly stock model in 9mm with Novak style sights and a large beaver tail, commander style hammer.
I want to either redo the grip panels or change them, too. The finish is very thin and they need to have a few dings ironed out, anyway.[/QUOTE]
Burnt Bronze?
Black frame, tan slide?
OD Green frame, black slide?
[thumb]http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0215/2560/products/X-tac_burnt_bronze_wilson_combat_1_of_5_1024x1024.JPG?v=1394760657[/thumb]
[img]http://36.media.tumblr.com/511740e3f4f10d366a13fb69f79bda86/tumblr_mjjtx42DkR1rv2gk5o1_500.jpg[/img]
[thumb]http://www.axial-photography.com/Other/Wilson-Combat-CQB/i-fvFn2rT/0/X2/WC-1-X2.jpg[/thumb]
I love the look of the M45A1 though
[img]http://oakhillguns.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/o/colt-marine-cqbp_1.png[/img]
[editline]6th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SeppLainer;47470812]It doesn't fucking matter how old it is. You said there was no bullshit bullpup that the [b]chinks[/b] offered and I proved you wrong. You can't stumble back and say that its probably marginally worse than something else that cost 3 times as much.[/QUOTE]
No, what I said was, "They aren't producing anything to compete with the latest craze however, the $2K+ polymer wunder rifle or bullpup."
I knew it existed and said it couldn't compete.
Chill out dude, you seem pretty buttmad about this; is the slur necessary?
Except it does compete because some people don't want to waste $3 grand on a Tavor that shoots gas up your nose after every shot. And since it can't make it to your market, it doesn't have to compete with the AUG since that's illegal here. And if it were to make its way south, I still feel it could compete, since there's not many bullpups for around a grand, well, anywhere.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47470816]Burnt Bronze?
Black frame, tan slide?
OD Green frame, black slide?
[thumb]http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0215/2560/products/X-tac_burnt_bronze_wilson_combat_1_of_5_1024x1024.JPG?v=1394760657[/thumb][/QUOTE]
Ooh. I don't think I've ever seen burnt bronze on a 1911, but I really want that now. I think I like it over antique bronze.
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47470816]
No, what I said was, "They aren't producing anything to compete with the latest craze however, the $2K+ polymer wunder rifle or bullpup."
I knew it existed and said it couldn't compete.
Chill out dude, you seem pretty buttmad about this; is the slur necessary?[/QUOTE]
How can it not compete? It's a bullpup based on an AK platform and it runs. And it's around half the cost of any overpriced bullpup we get out of Belgium or Israel. It's based on one of the PLA's main infantry weapons and I've never heard of them or anyone else having issues with it. [URL="http://www.t97.ca/"]It has an aftermarket as well[/URL]. You're literally shoving your fingers in your ears and going "La la la can't hear you".
[QUOTE=MAC21500;47470816]Chill out dude, you seem pretty buttmad about this; is the slur necessary?[/QUOTE]
call the cops
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;47470941]Except it does compete because some people don't want to waste $3 grand on a Tavor that shoots gas up your nose after every shot. And since it can't make it to your market, it doesn't have to compete with the AUG since that's illegal here. And if it were to make its way south, I still feel it could compete, since there's not many bullpups for around a grand, well, anywhere.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about the US market exclusively, not the CAD market.
That was my entire point, it isn't in the $2K + market, so people who would spend $800-1K on an AR but don't want an AR or Mini-14 would buy it.
It isn't in the same price bracket and it isn't in the same class as most, if not all other purpose built bullpups.
All I'm saying is, it wouldn't necessarily poach buyers from the US bullpup market, but I'm not saying that bullpup enthusiasts wouldn't buy one in addition to other bullpups just to round out the collection.
Are we talking guns or business market analysis now? I'm confused...
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