[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47775945]No you don't. PGO's are shit optics for AKs.[/QUOTE]
It's being done for entertainment value, not practicality.
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;47776118]It's being done for entertainment value, not practicality.[/QUOTE]
Entertainment is not real
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47775378]5.56x45 and 9mm Luger both have the same depth of penetration at about 30cm.
That being said I'd be more comfortable with pistol cartridges than rifle cartridges in the case of over-penetration.
As far as drywall penetration goes, most rounds go thru the same amount.
[url]http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-144635.html[/url]
Search "8 Sheets" and read the post by cesiumsponge. Both 9mm and 5.56x45 penetrated 8 sheets of drywall. .45 is the best all around choice as it has the lowest number of penetrated sheets while also being an effective round (7 sheets of drywall penetration, vs .22LR's 6 but .22LR isn't going to be as good as a round for home defense)
That being said I'd rather go with a pistol than a rifle or shotgun. Easier to pull out while half asleep, smaller and more maneuverable, and easier to aim (in my opinion anyway)[/QUOTE]
Here is a test using standard HP and SP 5.56mm ammo compared to HP 9mm ammo: [url]http://www.nwlink.com/~josephk/ar15_penetration_tests.html[/url]
If you used proper defensive 5.56mm ammo you would see less drywall penetration.
So, I decided to attach the bayonet today.
[URL=http://s215.photobucket.com/user/pilot1215/media/11212747_10206771953805720_3609858758581263867_n_zpsle59ocw0.jpg.html][IMG]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/pilot1215/11212747_10206771953805720_3609858758581263867_n_zpsle59ocw0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
As far as self defense goes, I'd rather have something with a lot of stopping power and noise over something with high ammo capacity.
If you hit the guy, great. He's not walking away from it. If you miss, he's just had something very noisy go off in his face. Psychologically, that's going to take the fight out of him and make him leave. That's practically the same as tagging him, but without (hopefully) the legal headache of a castle doctrine case.
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47776211]So, I decided to attach the bayonet today.
[URL=http://s215.photobucket.com/user/pilot1215/media/11212747_10206771953805720_3609858758581263867_n_zpsle59ocw0.jpg.html][IMG]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/pilot1215/11212747_10206771953805720_3609858758581263867_n_zpsle59ocw0.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
Any luck getting it off? Mine just gets stuck and I have to knock it off with a hammer (haven't found a use for the sickle yet). I've filed on it for hours and it's still shit.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47776234]Any luck getting it off? Mine just gets stuck and I have to knock it off with a hammer (haven't found a use for the sickle yet). I've filed on it for hours and it's still shit.[/QUOTE]
I use a hammer or some hard object. Just put a cloth over it, beat it off. I may file it a little. Then again how well does it go one for you? I have to stab a tree for it to seat right, then use a hammer to get it in place.
Mine cranks on easily enough with force but I eventually just zip tied the button down and knocked it off with a hammer because it's impossible to remove it otherwise without pinching your hand somehow. I was [I]able[/I] to get it off by hand once but I almost had to go to the hospital for stitches when it pinched the bit between my thumb and forefinger between the bayonet and the front sight. It was hammer time after that. No cloth because it's basically meant to be used as a tent stake and it's not like I was going to make it uglier.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;47776487]I'm basically done with my pistol permit stuff. They said they didn't need to do a final interview and I handed in my 3-hr safety course. Last step is to wait for a deputy to visit my house and than I'm completely done and than it's just waiting.
A lot of other people living my county say about 2-3 months for them to approve or deny. And a lot of people get unrestricted.[/QUOTE]
If you didn't have a US flagdog I'd think you lived in some European country with rules like that. Absolutely awful.
I'm basically done with my pistol permit stuff. They said they didn't need to do a final interview and I handed in my 3-hr safety course. Last step is to wait for a deputy to visit my house and than I'm completely done and than it's just waiting.
A lot of other people living in my county say about 2-3 months for them to approve or deny. And a lot of people get unrestricted.
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;47776118]It's being done for entertainment value, not practicality.[/QUOTE]
By all means then. Just expect to get conked in the eye a few times by it and don't expect any reasonable accuracy out of it.
Arguing with Prusse never works I still remember him tearing my apart for my suppressor maintenance and cleaning regime.
Because I left it on the gun :D
silly prusse
When you're talking with Prusse, you have to remember that hes basically just your typical American Fudd, but he talks with an even funnier accent than your typical hick has. He's not here to have fun, he's here to get uniform groupings and for hunting.
Theres just Norway for him to have fun with guns :v:
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;47776487]I'm basically done with my pistol permit stuff. They said they didn't need to do a final interview and I handed in my 3-hr safety course. Last step is to wait for a deputy to visit my house and than I'm completely done and than it's just waiting.
A lot of other people living in my county say about 2-3 months for them to approve or deny. And a lot of people get unrestricted.[/QUOTE]
What state do you live in? I live in Indiana and all I had to do was fill out the paper work, get finger printed, and then wait three weeks to get my conceal carry permit, so I do feel sorry for you.
I waited 8 months for my permit. :(
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47775378]5.56x45 and 9mm Luger both have the same depth of penetration at about 30cm.
That being said I'd be more comfortable with pistol cartridges than rifle cartridges in the case of over-penetration.
As far as drywall penetration goes, most rounds go thru the same amount.
[url]http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-144635.html[/url]
Search "8 Sheets" and read the post by cesiumsponge. Both 9mm and 5.56x45 penetrated 8 sheets of drywall. .45 is the best all around choice as it has the lowest number of penetrated sheets while also being an effective round (7 sheets of drywall penetration, vs .22LR's 6 but .22LR isn't going to be as good as a round for home defense)
That being said I'd rather go with a pistol than a rifle or shotgun. Easier to pull out while half asleep, smaller and more maneuverable, and easier to aim (in my opinion anyway)[/QUOTE]
This is a common misconception.
The reason that 5.56 is better for urban environments isn't because it penetrates less. In reality it is great at going through shit. What happens with 5.56 is that it hits something and starts to tumble, which makes it veer off target and rapidly lose energy. Pistol rounds crush straight through targets and aren't weighted to tumble in soft tissue like 5.56.
You don't see that with a stack of drywall, but if you were to shoot a building, you would see very different results between 5.56 and 9mm. 9mm would go straight through walls, but 5.56 would hit a wall and then veer heavily, leaving a hole high or low and way off target, generally well outside of the locations people would reside in.
[QUOTE=NateLB;47776727]What state do you live in? I live in Indiana and all I had to do was fill out the paper work, get finger printed, and then wait three weeks to get my conceal carry permit, so I do feel sorry for you.[/QUOTE]
NY
Here you have to be 21 to start and follow these easy steps:
* Fill out an Arrest Statement, have it notarized & Fill out an Application
* Schedule Finger Printing for $100
* Receive the rest of the paperwork during the finger printing.
* Get four character references. They cannot be family, must live in your county and cannot be LEO. All references must be notarized.
* Sign a form asking your pistol permit status not be public record.
* Purchase your firearm without being able to touch it due to laws barring you from doing so. Pay for it in full and get your receipt with all the serial number info etc on it
* Fill out two more forms in duplicate. Get your references to sign it. Have it notarized.
* Attend a 3-hr Safety Course. $50-$100
* Provide two utility bills with your address and name on them.
* Have a Sheriffs Deputy visit your residence and verify you live there.
* Have a final interview where they look over your paperwork and submit it.
* Wait 2-6 months to be approved, denied or summoned before a judge.
* Get your permit. Go get your gun.
To top it all off NY is a "May Issue" state so if you don't have proper cause for unrestricted you'll get a restricted permit or none at all. Restrictions can be appealed but good luck having a denial repealed, usually doesn't happen.
Luckily I live in one of the best counties for this process with a really good judge. I want the permit for my Armed Security Guard License, have a clean criminal record and generally don't have anything going against me except maybe my age.
I'm probably missing a few steps there but I'm trying to forget about it and settle in for the wait now.
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;47776746]I waited 8 months for my permit. :([/QUOTE]
What county? OC is pretty fast, or so it seems. 2-3 Months ever since they gave the Sheriffs Department the responsibility for permits.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47776950]This is a common misconception.
The reason that 5.56 is better for urban environments isn't because it penetrates less. In reality it is great at going through shit. What happens with 5.56 is that it hits something and starts to tumble, which makes it veer off target and rapidly lose energy. Pistol rounds crush straight through targets and aren't weighted to tumble in soft tissue like 5.56.
You don't see that with a stack of drywall, but if you were to shoot a building, you would see very different results between 5.56 and 9mm. 9mm would go straight through walls, but 5.56 would hit a wall and then veer heavily, leaving a hole high or low and way off target, generally well outside of the locations people would reside in.[/QUOTE]
You're forgetting that when it tumbles and turns sideways it can no longer penetrate things easily. 5.56mm rounds also have a habit of disintegrating when they hit hard things.
[QUOTE=NateLB;47775632]I would rather the person invading my home be dead in one shot vs multiple shots that I might miss in a panic shooting situation.
I have a Steyr L9-A1 and a remington 870, I would rather use the 870 with 3" 000 buckshot than my Steyr 9mm if someone broke into my home, odds are I'm going to be sued anyways for shooting someones precious angel that was turning their life around, so what difference does it make if I scruff up the dry wall?[/QUOTE]
No gun you would use in a home defense situation can guarantee a "1 shot kill" if you're using it PROPERLY and aiming for center mass.
Even wanting a "1 shot kill" violates one of the cardinal rules of using a gun in self defense (Shoot until the target drops), and tangentially violates another if it makes you aim for anything other than center mass (Always aim for center mass, never for limbs or the head)
Also what state do you live in? Most states you cannot be sued for home defense. Castle doctrine and all that. The majority of states presume a fear for your life and justification of deadly force when someone breaks in.
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=mastoner20;47775747]He's new to the thread, let him be. He'll soon realize that Prusse never talks practical to us and is only worried about hitting the dot in the center of the target at threehundred yards with both eyes closed every time and doesn't know what self-defense is in our minds.[/QUOTE]
I don't like the sound of this individual. He sounds like an unsafe gun owner.
[QUOTE=download;47776208]Here is a test using standard HP and SP 5.56mm ammo compared to HP 9mm ammo: [url]http://www.nwlink.com/~josephk/ar15_penetration_tests.html[/url]
If you used proper defensive 5.56mm ammo you would see less drywall penetration.[/QUOTE]
Good information, but confusing considering the composition of drywall. How is a larger, slower, blunter round penetrating more than a smaller, faster, for lack of a better word 'pointier' round?
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=GunFox;47776950]This is a common misconception.
The reason that 5.56 is better for urban environments isn't because it penetrates less. In reality it is great at going through shit. What happens with 5.56 is that it hits something and starts to tumble, which makes it veer off target and rapidly lose energy. Pistol rounds crush straight through targets and aren't weighted to tumble in soft tissue like 5.56.
You don't see that with a stack of drywall, but if you were to shoot a building, you would see very different results between 5.56 and 9mm. 9mm would go straight through walls, but 5.56 would hit a wall and then veer heavily, leaving a hole high or low and way off target, generally well outside of the locations people would reside in.[/QUOTE]
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks Gunfox.
Still, would rather use my pistol(s) for self defense in my home than my rifle. My house has a lot of hallways and doorways and my rifle would just be too cumbersome (18" barrel)
Maybe if I had something more compact like a bullpup rifle I could see using it but as it stands I'd probably hit my rifle's barrel on every wall attempting to use it in the semi-panicked "Oh god the door got kicked in at 3am" self defense scenario
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;47777008]NY
Here you have to be 21 to start and follow these easy steps:
* Fill out an Arrest Statement, have it notarized & Fill out an Application
* Schedule Finger Printing for $100
* Receive the rest of the paperwork during the finger printing.
* Get four character references. They cannot be family, must live in your county and cannot be LEO. All references must be notarized.
* Sign a form asking your pistol permit status not be public record.
* Purchase your firearm without being able to touch it due to laws barring you from doing so. Pay for it in full and get your receipt with all the serial number info etc on it
* Fill out two more forms in duplicate. Get your references to sign it. Have it notarized.
* Attend a 3-hr Safety Course. $50-$100
* Provide two utility bills with your address and name on them.
* Have a Sheriffs Deputy visit your residence and verify you live there.
* Have a final interview where they look over your paperwork and submit it.
* Wait 2-6 months to be approved, denied or summoned before a judge.
* Get your permit. Go get your gun.
To top it all off NY is a "May Issue" state so if you don't have proper cause for unrestricted you'll get a restricted permit or none at all. Restrictions can be appealed but good luck having a denial repealed, usually doesn't happen.
Luckily I live in one of the best counties for this process with a really good judge. I want the permit for my Armed Security Guard License, have a clean criminal record and generally don't have anything going against me except maybe my age.
I'm probably missing a few steps there but I'm trying to forget about it and settle in for the wait now.[/QUOTE]
Wow. That's fucking awful.
Where I live for getting a gun it's:
*Go to gun store
*Pick out gun
*Pass background check
*Take gun home
And for getting a CWP it's:
*Take 3 hour safety class ($50)
*Walk into any sheriff's office and get fingerprints done ($37.50)
*Notarize safety class certificate
*Fill out application and send in the appropriate amount of money + fingerprint paper + certificate ($117)
*Wait a year and a half because the USPS lost your fucking application
*Get CWP
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47777236]but sure, if some romani or your friendly neighbourhood worker Śławislaw Rompski Połistanczszyk comes to pick up my silverware, it'd be the first thing I grabbed :wink:
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
also bb, i'm norwegian, not jajaja as my fagdog says.
mastoner is allowed to call me out for siestas as he's a swell wee lad[/QUOTE]
What are you saying?
Does anyone know what language this is?
[QUOTE=Pilot1215;47776362]I use a hammer or some hard object. Just put a cloth over it, beat it off. I may file it a little. Then again how well does it go one for you? I have to stab a tree for it to seat right, then use a hammer to get it in place.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47776479]Mine cranks on easily enough with force but I eventually just zip tied the button down and knocked it off with a hammer because it's impossible to remove it otherwise without pinching your hand somehow. I was [I]able[/I] to get it off by hand once but I almost had to go to the hospital for stitches when it pinched the bit between my thumb and forefinger between the bayonet and the front sight. It was hammer time after that. No cloth because it's basically meant to be used as a tent stake and it's not like I was going to make it uglier.
If you didn't have a US flagdog I'd think you lived in some European country with rules like that. Absolutely awful.[/QUOTE]
I must have gotten lucky with the 2 nuggets I got. The bayonets go on and off quicker than loading with a stipper clip.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47777248]Good information, but confusing considering the composition of drywall. How is a larger, slower, blunter round penetrating more than a smaller, faster, for lack of a better word 'pointier' round?
[/QUOTE]
Because long projectiles used in rifle cartridges are more unstable than the short bullets used in handgun cartridges. They are also generally far more lightly constructed than handgun projectiles meaning they break apart when they hit hard surfaces.
This has been said multiple times already.
Also, just saying, I wouldnt be too worried about having to fill a couple bulletholes in the wall with putty if someone breaks into my house and I shoot him. That sounds like something Id worry about right alongside "aaww shucks why did that guy bleed all over my carpet so much after I shot him? How inconvenient."
[QUOTE=Birdman101;47777380]Also, just saying, I wouldnt be too worried about having to fill a couple bulletholes in the wall with putty if someone breaks into my house and I shoot him. That sounds like something Id worry about right alongside "aaww shucks why did that guy bleed all over my carpet so much after I shot him? How inconvenient."[/QUOTE]
Unless your bullet penetrates the wall and hits your neighbor. Than I'd be worried about those holes in the wall.
Went shooting with my friend today, we brought a 12g and a 6.5 rifle. Was very fun.
[QUOTE=download;47777369]Because long projectiles used in rifle cartridges are more unstable than the short bullets used in handgun cartridges. They are also generally far more lightly constructed than handgun projectiles meaning they break apart when they hit hard surfaces.
This has been said multiple times already.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I mean if you'd read my post at the top of this page (that you quoted and then removed text from to reply to) you would have seen that Gunfox answered my question.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47777224]No gun you would use in a home defense situation can guarantee a "1 shot kill" if you're using it PROPERLY and aiming for center mass.
Even wanting a "1 shot kill" violates one of the cardinal rules of using a gun in self defense (Shoot until the target drops), and tangentially violates another if it makes you aim for anything other than center mass (Always aim for center mass, never for limbs or the head)
Also what state do you live in? Most states you cannot be sued for home defense. Castle doctrine and all that. The majority of states presume a fear for your life and justification of deadly force when someone breaks in.
[/QUOTE]
I live in Indiana, and we do have castle doctrine, but as has been all over the news any time there is a justifiable shooting, the "victim" or "victims family" sue anyways. I also have this insane fear with my pistol for some reason, I do perfectly fine on paper with it, nothing AMAZING, but it gets the job done on center mass (which yes, that's what I aim for), but I have an extreme fear that if I do get into a situation that I do need to draw my pistol and defend myself or someone else that I'm just going to be unable to retain any sort of accuracy. I don't know why I have this fear, but it's there, so I would rather use a shotgun in home defense with 000 buckshot which I highly doubt someone is going to survive that when it hits them in the chest at indoor ranges, it's going to pelt their heart/lungs.
for home defense i use flashbang grenades
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;47780201]Svenskemauser?[/QUOTE]
Nope, some butchered hunting rifle.
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
A Husqvarna of some sort.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47777248]Good information, but confusing considering the composition of drywall. How is a larger, slower, blunter round penetrating more than a smaller, faster, for lack of a better word 'pointier' round?
[editline]22nd May 2015[/editline]
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks Gunfox.
Still, would rather use my pistol(s) for self defense in my home than my rifle. My house has a lot of hallways and doorways and my rifle would just be too cumbersome (18" barrel)
Maybe if I had something more compact like a bullpup rifle I could see using it but as it stands I'd probably hit my rifle's barrel on every wall attempting to use it in the semi-panicked "Oh god the door got kicked in at 3am" self defense scenario
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I still prefer handguns for home defense. I just find the ballistics to be interesting.
[URL="http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/22/ares-scr-is-now-new-york-city-approved/"]The ARES SCR is officially legal in NYC.[/URL] NYC. Because it's not as black and scary.
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