Firearms XII; Because Merica - General

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47908701]I'm not dismissing AR's, I'm dismissing the AR market. I'm not saying AR's are bad, because they're not. Like you said they're very good rifles and they're extremely modular. But the market for them is shit, the people who buy them are shit, and the people who make accessories for them are shit. [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] I couldn't care less about a persons image at the range, I prefer not to shoot at ranges with other people to begin with. If you bought some schlocky $1800 AR just to plink at the range then I feel bad for you. [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] That comparison doesn't work. When you get into a car, you know how many miles have been on it. It says right there on the dash. So you get into a BMW thats being sold at MSRP for $60,000 and it's got 140,000 miles on it, you're going to try and lowball because who the fuck would pay MSRP for a used car? With a gun, theres not really a milage counter for them unless you ask the owner and nobody in the world is truthful about round counts. You're also not a dealer, you're a dood on armslist trying to sell a used gun at new pricing.[/QUOTE] Actually they're very similar, round count is similar to miles. Even then the quality of the bore and other parts are what determines the value. That is why some M90\30s are valued higher even though they function similarly - cause their higher quality and or have matching parts. A custom built gun that has 10 rounds through it does not count as used. Do cars sell for used prices because it has 10 miles due to test drives no. Your right I'm not a dealer who gets deals on orders and manafacture discounts, so my cost is a bit higher. Which is fine because I don't have issues selling firearms. I run into normal people with money to spend and sell the guns I have. I don't get rich off of it but it does give me extra room to build or buy guns. The people who make, buy, and sell ars are not shit. Can you explain why they're shit? Case if I do recall every gun on the market has similar accessories. The only thing that stinks is your opinion, which to me is highly misinformed. And again your taking the example out of context. My whole point out of my earlier post was if you don't want to even meet close to a persons asking price then don't buy it or try to low ball. The price I that way for a reason whether you like it or not. If the gun does not sell it isn't your problem. In my case my asking prices are not unreasonable because people continue to buy from me. I just at times attract misinformed people who are cheap asses. You must really hate aka too seeing as thy have similar markets.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47906551]If you wanna be the popular guy at the range, go to an outdoor range with a traditional looking black powder rifle and start shooting it. Me and a friend did that. Before long fuckin' everyone had stopped to watch us load and shoot muzzleloading rifles. We let a couple people shoot them and they had a blast with it. [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] Alternatively if you wanna be the asshole at a range dress up in colonial british army uniforms and do the exact same thing but insult the 'yankees' and use extra smokey powder.[/QUOTE] No lie, every time I take my run of the mill .30-06 to the range and shoot it, everyone about dies when the thing goes off. I've seen people take stronger rifles there and they don't flinch, but the second my 7600 goes off, everyone screams saying that was too loud and probably hurt. Then they shoot it once, and fall in love with the .30-06.

[quote=MR-X]I'll enjoy my broskimallninja thank you very much, which BTW actually functions differently then some 500 dollar ar15. I should know I custom built it. Cause if you build one you would know they function differently and not all have the same specs, a lot goes under the hood per say.[/quote] They all function exactly the same, unless you build a piston rifle. You can add doodads that make things easier to work with (bolt catch levers, etc) and things to pretty them up, but in the end it all works the same. We can get into billet vs forged, NP3 vs NiB, etc etc but at the end of the day it's still the same design. The AR platform's heart is the barrel - you get a nice barrel, you've got a nice rifle. Fact - you don't have to go to someone like Wilson, Noveske or DD anymore to get nice barrels. Rainier, Faxon, Spikes, so on and so forth all make great barrels. Add in a Spikes or Aero receiver set (my personal favorites), and the rest is all cosmetics / personal preference. You sound a little miffed that your rifle isn't getting the value of its parts (since you custom built it) - it won't in today's market. Unless we get another panic, ARs will depreciate in value because you can build or buy one for $500. [quote=MR-X]A custom built gun that has 10 rounds through it does not count as used.[/quote] Sorry. Not counting the factory round, the moment a round goes into the chamber, it's used. That goes for any gun, from the lowliest Hi-Point to a $10k custom precision rifle. That's how the gun market works.

It's less about how many rounds have been through the rifle and more about the fact that it's from any other source than a retailer. Anyone can say a rifle is unfired. Anyone can say it's only been shot ten or twenty of a hundred times. There's no way to verify this number. A used gun is a used gun. The only thing that matters is cosmetic condition and rarity. They're not like cars with odometers that track the miles. There's no bullet counter, no shot tracker. Just someone's word. And people that try to sell used guns near MSRP are insane because any SANE individual will pay the few extra dollars to get a new gun from a company with a warranty and a guarantee that it's an unfired brand new gun.

What if they're not unfired, brand new guns? If you demand unfired, brand new guns; will you ever buy a Sig, a Glock, or a H&K?

[QUOTE=mastoner20;47909931]What if they're not unfired, brand new guns? If you demand unfired, brand new guns; will you ever buy a Sig, a Glock, or a H&K?[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? I can get brand new unfired Sig, Glock, and H&K firearms from any retailer or dealer.

I think you missed the joke that the three manufacturers test fire the guns before shipping to retailers...

[QUOTE=mastermaul;47889490]Montana: the land of the Firearms Freedom Act, where you can't hunt with saboted bullets in muzzleloaders.[/QUOTE] Because you are supposed to be engaging from less than one hundred meters. Sabot rounds have no such limitations and are a safety hazard in the areas that only permit muzzle loaders, shotguns, handguns, and archery.

[QUOTE=GunFox;47909999]Because you are supposed to be engaging from less than one hundred meters. Sabot rounds have no such limitations and are a safety hazard in the areas that only permit muzzle loaders, shotguns, handguns, and archery.[/QUOTE] Sabot shotgun slugs through a rifled barrel have no such restriction.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;47908800]Yeah you're way smarter and cooler than the millions of people who've bought into one of the most popular rifles of all time. Talking to you feels like talking to the kid in highschool who tries really hard not to be a part of the mainstream but still wears a slipknot shirt to class every day.[/QUOTE] Call me a hipster or call me edgy if you want, but I'm not buying into a gun with a market thats absolutely riddled with overpriced guns and accessories. The market is toxic and the community is toxic. I just said this in my prior post and I'll reiterate this before you try and accuse me of hating AR's; I don't hate AR's, they're solid rifles. Theres better rifles on the market and theres worse rifles on the market, but I refuse to buy into it because everything about it is toxic.

[QUOTE=mastoner20;47909991]I think you missed the joke that the three manufacturers test fire the guns before shipping to retailers...[/QUOTE] The manufacturer test firing a single bullet from a gun and then cleaning it after before shipping does not count as use. Never has, never will. I don't even really consider it firing the weapon. It's a test. They have to make sure it works. IMO every manufacturer should test fire every gun off the line. "Use" is some unknown entity doing unknown things with the rifle. Not cleaning it. Improperly lubing it. Improperly assembling/disassembling it. Breaking and replacing parts. Firing it hundreds or thousands of times. Storing it in ill-suited containers. Etc etc etc [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=mastermaul;47910164]Sabot shotgun slugs through a rifled barrel have no such restriction.[/QUOTE] Because modern shotguns are expected to have that kind of range with saboted slugs. Muzzleloaders are more primitive.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47910244]Because modern shotguns are expected to have that kind of range with saboted slugs. Muzzleloaders are more primitive.[/QUOTE] His argument (and the argument of the statute to begin with) is that these weapons are allowed in restricted areas because they have a small effective range and don't pose as much of a threat to nearby population. Sabot shotgun slugs are allowed, which have much greater ranges, but muzzleloader sabots are not. A quick search of the list of weapons restricted areas shows me that all areas that allow muzzleloader hunting allow shotgun hunting as well.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;47910310]His argument (and the argument of the statute to begin with) is that these weapons are allowed in restricted areas because they have a small effective range and don't pose as much of a threat to nearby population. Sabot shotgun slugs are allowed, which have much greater ranges, but muzzleloader sabots are not. A quick search of the list of weapons restricted areas shows me that all areas that allow muzzleloader hunting allow shotgun hunting as well.[/QUOTE] Yes but at the same time? Different things are allowed at different times it's called "season" and it's meant to give different types of hunter a fair and level playing ground. An archery hunter would NEVER be safe hunting alongside gun hunters, and a muzzleloading hunter wouldn't be safe or ever bag anything with modern gun hunters running around popping shots off at anything that moves.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47910421]Yes but at the same time? Different things are allowed at different times it's called "season" and it's meant to give different types of hunter a fair and level playing ground. An archery hunter would NEVER be safe hunting alongside gun hunters, and a muzzleloading hunter wouldn't be safe or ever bag anything with modern gun hunters running around popping shots off at anything that moves.[/QUOTE] Yes. At the same time. There is no muzzleloading season, we are discussing weapon restricted areas, and the allowed weapons are a case by case basis for each area, but archery is allowed alongside muzzleloaders and shotguns in most of these areas. This is Montana, not your state.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;47910563]Yes. At the same time. There is no muzzleloading season, we are discussing weapon restricted areas, and the allowed weapons are a case by case basis for each area, but archery is allowed alongside muzzleloaders and shotguns in most of these areas. This is Montana, not your state.[/QUOTE] Is this for hunting or just use in general? Either way Montana sounds dumb as shit

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47910599]Is this for hunting or just use in general? Either way Montana sounds dumb as shit[/QUOTE] For hunting. There is a general archery season but the special WRAs close to populated areas allow only certain weapons, chiefly shotguns/muzzleloaders/handguns/archery equipment. There's no special muzzleloading season.

Your state mixes different weapons into the same hunting season? What the fuck.

Wasn't his point initially about how stupid their hunting laws are?

[QUOTE=mastoner20;47910748]Wasn't his point initially about how stupid their hunting laws are?[/QUOTE] If it was I agree their hunting laws are dumb as fuck. Florida's hunting laws are smart and sensible. From first to last, starting in Fall: *Archery Season *Crossbow Season *Muzzleloading Gun Season *General Gun Season *Small Game Season *Spring Turkey

The thing that sucks about most hunting laws is that they were setup 100 years ago when poaching was a serious issue. Most people now-a-days see that it isn't worth it to kill a timberwolf and be thrown in prison for god knows how long or face trillion dollar fines. But the old laws are still there and they make no sense in 2015. Case and point, NFA regulation of suppressors.

Tried turning it into the cops?

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47910754]If it was I agree their hunting laws are dumb as fuck. Florida's hunting laws are smart and sensible. From first to last, starting in Fall: *Archery Season *Crossbow Season *Muzzleloading Gun Season *General Gun Season *Small Game Season *Spring Turkey[/QUOTE] PA: °Small Game °Fall turkey, bear, and Elk °Archery and Crossbow °Rifle (though, rumor mill suggests they're planning to return the buck and antlerless season separations again) °Muzzleloading and archery °Small game °Spring turkey [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] Depends on state laws and regulations, but I'd suggest taking it to your local police precinct, keeping it as an heirloom (remove the firing pin or Umenat the breach with a cheap and easy weld so it can't be loaded), or possibly turn it into a scrap metal facility if you really just can't stand having it.

[QUOTE=Inplabth;47910972]What's the best way to get rid of a gun? I've got a shotgun (old Springfield Model 67B) and it's absolutely unsafe to fire, the interior of the receiver is rusted out. I know that torch cutting the receiver counts as destroying it but I'd rather not have to go and buy one if I don't have to.[/QUOTE] Wait for a gun buyback and take it there. You get to make sure it's disposed of safely and you get free shit. I really wouldn't try destroying it yourself. The ATF really frowns on it and it's easy to commit a felony doing so. Just give it to the cops at a buyback. If there are never buybacks just take it to the cops anyway.

Why would you need to sabbot a muzzle loader? I've fired plenty of minié balls straight out of the barrel with no assistance.

[QUOTE=Inplabth;47910972]What's the best way to get rid of a gun? I've got a shotgun (old Springfield Model 67B) and it's absolutely unsafe to fire, the interior of the receiver is rusted out. I know that torch cutting the receiver counts as destroying it but I'd rather not have to go and buy one if I don't have to.[/QUOTE] Call your local sheriffs office and see if they can dispose of it, if not, ask a local gunsmith.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;47910310]His argument (and the argument of the statute to begin with) is that these weapons are allowed in restricted areas because they have a small effective range and don't pose as much of a threat to nearby population. Sabot shotgun slugs are allowed, which have much greater ranges, but muzzleloader sabots are not. A quick search of the list of weapons restricted areas shows me that all areas that allow muzzleloader hunting allow shotgun hunting as well.[/QUOTE] It is almost certainly a mistake: [url]http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=48473[/url] The same proposal also restricted shotguns originally.

[QUOTE=credesniper;47911018]Why would you need to sabbot a muzzle loader? I've fired plenty of minié balls straight out of the barrel with no assistance.[/QUOTE] Because 'muh ballistics' There are plenty of people who spend too much money on what is supposed to be a low cost hobby. My entire muzzleloading setup cost me less than $600 (including bullet mold, furnace, and shooting supplies) and my rifle is really high quality, and I don't need to buy bullets because I can make my own. I hardball lead ingots online on the cheap. Eventually I want to build a small furnace outside so I can melt down and purify brake pads and use those.

[QUOTE=GunFox;47911044]It is almost certainly a mistake: [url]http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=48473[/url] The same proposal also restricted shotguns originally.[/QUOTE] That was four years ago and according to the regs at [url]http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/regulations/default.html[/url] the definitions still haven't changed as I read them. The state gov doesn't seem too concerned with the matter.

Eh. Dumb laws or not my 'lottery pipe dream' still hasn't changed. Buy the 9,500 acre plot of land with a house up for sale outside of Columbus, Montana and live completely off the grid. Take a deer or elk every so often from my porch whenever I run out of meat. Grow my own fruits and vegetables. Never see a soul. Someday. [url=http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2-Highway-10_Columbus_MT_59019_M71369-00066?row=1&ex=MT593672399]If anyone is curious.[/url]

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;47911125]Eh. Dumb laws or not my 'lottery pipe dream' still hasn't changed. Buy the 9,500 acre plot of land with a house up for sale outside of Columbus, Montana and live completely off the grid. Take a deer or elk every so often from my porch whenever I run out of meat. Grow my own fruits and vegetables. Never see a soul. Someday. [url=http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2-Highway-10_Columbus_MT_59019_M71369-00066?row=1&ex=MT593672399]If anyone is curious.[/url][/QUOTE] I can't even begin to think of the things that I would do on 9.5k acres... I would be lost in joy.