America as the Enemy in WWII? - General

[QUOTE=Nifae;24808296]we might all be speaking German and heiling our fuhrer instead of saying the Pledge of Allegiance.[/QUOTE] nah i'd be dead

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;24808547]while movies that are like OP's description are inaccurate to say the least, WW2 is still probably the only true clear-cut good vs. evil war[/QUOTE] there's no such thing as a "clear-cut good vs. evil war"

[QUOTE=Sottalytober;24785784]In the end it doesn't come to who was good and who was bad, nothing is that black and white. Some soldiers fight for a cause, others because they were forced. Some soldiers shot Jew's with glee, some cried and never forgot the faces of those who they were forced to kill. Every army has two faces, the question is which face shines more.[/QUOTE] They were still the [B]fucking nazis. [/B]Stop your moral relativism shit, they were still fighting a genocidal, awful war using horrible, terrorizing tactics, often killing civilians on purpose. Just look at the bloody figures. I don't care whether they wanted to do it or not, they still were committing atrocities and that's what's important.

yeah the americans interned the Japanese and they never really treated black people a lot better than the nazi's treated non-aryans

[QUOTE=thisispain;24808639]yeah the americans interned the Japanese and they never really treated black people a lot better than the nazi's treated non-aryans[/QUOTE] At the time pretty much most white people in the west hated blacks. [QUOTE=Nifae;24808296]If he had listened to his military advisors, we might all be speaking German and heiling our fuhrer instead of saying the Pledge of Allegiance.[/QUOTE] As if Germany could ever win against the US and Russia. LOL.

[QUOTE=Reborn9;24808667]At the time pretty much most white people in the west hated blacks. As if Germany could ever win against the US and Russia. LOL.[/QUOTE] ....Did you read the post? Somehow, I doubt his intelligent military advisors would advise him to declare war on two major powers. They weren't hellbent on world domination like Hitler. Did you know the Americans had similar camps like Germany? They were treated in equal or a small bit better than the minorities were treated in Germany during WW2. Although, most of them weren't innocent people. (These were for Japanese POWs.) [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Japanese_Prisoners_of_War_at_Guam_-_15_August_1945.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24808114] We stopped the Germans and Italians from taking vital oil fields in Africa and the Middle East, then invaded and knocked-out Italy. Our navy also kept the Germans under total blockade, and our RAF decimated most Luftwaffe power.[/QUOTE] Americans fought in Africa and Italy aswell. Both campaigns were not "minor" involvements for the Americans either. There was some significant combat in both campaigns. Off the top of my head Kasserine Pass (North Africa) and Monte Cassino (Italy) come to mind, for example. So I'm going to assume that the [i]we[/i] represents the Allies and not just the British. "total blockade" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion because of the rather successful U-boat campaigns and their "Wolf Packs". All things considered though the Royal Navy had a significant monopoly over the Atlantic, that's for sure. Some Americans, eager to get involved in the war (adrenalin junkies if you ask me), served in the RAF aswell. Americans had a significant role in WWII, why is this a concept so hard to accept? Especially for you Gmod_Fan?

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24792248]Because not wanting to always see the Yanks as the good guys is a bad thing. :downs: [editline]08:51PM[/editline] Good, but I kind of want some realism. Realism, as in not a movie that shows an Americans kill 50 Germans on his own. I want a movie that shows the Germans as the elite soldiers they are, not the mindless cattle-to-the-slaughter that most WWII movies show them as.[/QUOTE] Firstly, WW2 in HD is real footage shot during the war. Secondly, the Germans were far from elite. At the beginning of the war, over 50% of the Werhmacht were untrained and still used horses and wagons. [editline]05:40PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kalibos;24808593]there's no such thing as a "clear-cut good vs. evil war"[/QUOTE] WW2 was a clear cut good vs. evil war. Germany was imperialistic, genocidal, and war-mongering, who started the war by aggression first. Japan was imperialistic, genocidal, and war-mongering, who started the war by aggression first. [editline]05:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Jim_Riley;24808772]Americans fought in Africa and Italy aswell. Both campaigns were not "minor" involvements for the Americans either. There was some significant combat in both campaigns. Off the top of my head Kasserine Pass (North Africa) and Monte Cassino (Italy) come to mind, for example. So I'm going to assume that the [i]we[/i] represents the Allies and not just the British. "total blockade" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion because of the rather successful U-boat campaigns and their "Wolf Packs". All things considered though the Royal Navy had a significant monopoly over the Atlantic, that's for sure. Some Americans, eager to get involved in the war (adrenalin junkies if you ask me), served in the RAF aswell. Americans had a significant role in WWII, why is this a concept so hard to accept? Especially for you Gmod_Fan?[/QUOTE] Not to mention no U-boats snuck into our most important naval base and sank the pride of our fleet. If you didn't know, a German U-boat snuck into Scapa Flow and sank the Royal Oak. [editline]05:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Nifae;24808761]....Did you read the post? Somehow, I doubt his intelligent military advisors would advise him to declare war on two major powers. They weren't hellbent on world domination like Hitler. Did you know the Americans had similar camps like Germany? They were treated in equal or a small bit better than the minorities were treated in Germany during WW2. Although, most of them weren't innocent people. (These were for Japanese POWs.) [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Japanese_Prisoners_of_War_at_Guam_-_15_August_1945.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] German POWs were treated better than black soldiers. And that shit isn't just from Miracle From St. Anna (shitty movie), that shit actually happened.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24808918] WW2 was a clear cut good vs. evil war.[/QUOTE] both sides fought clean and both sides fought dirty labeling the allies "good" and the axis "evil" is pretty ignorant and sweeping generalizations

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24808918]WW2 was a clear cut good vs. evil war. Germany was imperialistic, genocidal, and war-mongering, who started the war by aggression first. Japan was imperialistic, genocidal, and war-mongering, who started the war by aggression first. [/QUOTE] The Soviet Union was Stalinist, genocidal, a war-mongering, who was allied with Germany at one point. :colbert: However, I do agree with you for the most part. Though the Allies weren't exempt from war crimes, the liberation of The Pacific/Europe and the protection of their territories while ending genocide isn't the worst of goals.

I didn't know the allies killed 11 million people in death camps, or killed millions of Chinese. I didn't know the allies executed their prisoners on a regular basis. The Allies didn't do half the fucked up shit that the Axis did.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24809310]I didn't know the allies killed 11 million people in death camps, or killed millions of Chinese.[/QUOTE] Stalin offed more people than the nazis, japs, and italians combined not during the war, but given the nature of his purges, I believe they should count I mean of course that does not represent the entirety of the allies during the war but nor do the heinous crimes of relatively few fascists represent the entirety of the axis [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24809310]I didn't know the allies executed their prisoners on a regular basis.[/QUOTE] not everyone on the axis side did either [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24809310]The Allies didn't do half the fucked up shit that the Axis did.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/url]

[QUOTE=kirderf;24782177]Das Boot. It's a submarine movie though.[/QUOTE] [sp]But the ending where the fighter comes in and kills the crew makes you feel bad for them.[/sp]

yeah Das Boot is great

Passchendale. Instead of Americans you get Canadians instead :D

[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;24808772]Off the top of my head Kasserine Pass (North Africa) and Monte Cassino (Italy) come to mind, for example.[/quote] ...both of which were horrible defeats (Kasserine) or involved unimaginable losses (Monte Cassino)?

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24811041]...both of which were horrible defeats (Kasserine) or involved unimaginable losses (Monte Cassino)?[/QUOTE] Yes. What's your point?

[QUOTE=Kalibos;24809522]Stalin offed more people than the nazis, japs, and italians combined not during the war, but given the nature of his purges, I believe they should count I mean of course that does not represent the entirety of the allies during the war but nor do the heinous crimes of relatively few fascists represent the entirety of the axis not everyone on the axis side did either [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/url][/QUOTE] I wasn't aware that the Japanese Internment camps were death camps where the prisoners were beaten and starved.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24812040]I wasn't aware that the Japanese Internment camps were death camps where the prisoners were beaten and starved.[/QUOTE] I didn't say or even imply they were, lol, but the allies weren't innocent I bring it up because rounding up a whole bunch of your citizens and telling them "your rights are revoked" and stuffing them in camps because of their race isn't a far cry from what some of the evil axis fascists did Although now that you mention it, the Soviets did operate camps like that

Band of Brothers was pretty good about it. granted, the 101st AB did net quite a lot of victories in ww2.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24808114]Very informative post. Your eloquent statements of facts enthrall me. :downs: [/QUOTE] An absence of fact is better than bullshit 'facts'.

Saints and Soldiers was a great movie.

I'm with the OP on this one. The badguys are always Nazi's, portrayed as savage beasts with a next-to-nothing IQ and a bloodlust that only hands could satisfy. Fuck, like come on. My grandfather was a Nazi, and even he says the movies and games are bullshit. I showed him how many WWII games there were, he said (quote) "Wow. Why are we so popular?" Ya. Can't wait to show him Nazi Zombies on CoD5 [sp]He commanded four tank squads in Nazi-Occupied France, I think he's an authority on the matter. [/sp]

Grave of the Fireflies

Soldiers themselves on either side can be good or bad. But at the same time, the Nazi German soldiers were commanded for evil. Whether the soldiers themselves really wanted to do what they were told, that's a different story. Same for the Americans. As a whole, they were sent out with the purpose of being good. The soldiers themselves could be patriots with passion for their country, doing what they thought was right. Others just assumed if it's a German he's evil and should be killed. But like I said, as a whole, the reason Hitler sent out the Nazis wasn't for any good reason. And the American troops weren't sent to kill people of a different race or to claim land for their country. There's good in bad in all groups of any kind. I'd understand watching a movie showing how Americans weren't all good and Germans weren't all bad. But if you want a movie that says Germany had every right to start the holocaust, or saying the attack on Pearl Harbor is justified, there's something wrong with you.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24809310]The Allies didn't do half the fucked up shit that the Axis did.[/QUOTE] Well since you put it that way! You're an idiot. That doesn't excuse them of the bad stuff they DID do.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;24812920]Well since you put it that way! You're an idiot. That doesn't excuse them of the bad stuff they DID do.[/QUOTE] Other than the nuclear bombings, the fire bombings, and the internment camps, and occasional prisoner executions, the Allies didn't do anything bad. And all the bombings were necessary. You're an idiot.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;24812963]Other than the nuclear bombings, the fire bombings, and the internment camps, and occasional prisoner executions, the Allies didn't do anything bad. And all the bombings were necessary. You're an idiot.[/QUOTE] The waffen SS was responsible for a lot of the killing of innocents. Don't confuse the army regulars (which did most of the combat) with the waffen SS. You can't blame the axis as a whole for a lot of the bad stuff that was done. The Japanese side of the axis, though.. lots of horrible shit done by them. Though I'd assume the US did a lot of killing of Japanese prisoners and injured soldiers, not to mention the use of flamethrowers, but that can be justified in a sense.

There was no killing of Japanese Prisoners because many divisions had orders to take no prisoners.

[QUOTE=ZF911;24812886]Soldiers themselves on either side can be good or bad. But at the same time, the Nazi German soldiers were commanded for evil. [/QUOTE] No. They were commanded for conquest. If the treaty of Versailles hadn't been so ridiculously harsh, WW2 probably wouldn't have happened. [editline]01:09AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24813083]There was no killing of Japanese Prisoners because many divisions had orders to take no prisoners.[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I mean. If a Japanese soldier were to surrender, and American shoots him, that would essentially be the killing of prisoners. I don't think it matters, though, as the Japanese never signed the Geneva convention nor did they take part in any of it's humane practices. Regardless, shooting of surrendering or unarmed soldiers is fairly despicable, if you have just cause to do it, it's not as condemnable, but it's still a black blotch on the US war effort.