• Philosophy Thread - deeeeeeep bro
    999 replies, posted
yeah but the point still remains that inherently these words don't mean the things you say technically, you yourself are giving them that meaning. a word can mean something to someone and mean something completely different to someone else. [editline]8th January 2013[/editline] this is what [B]you[/B] think of the word and what [B]I[/B] think of the word it's purely subjective. and i still think faith is complete and utter bullshit.
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;39146838]yeah but the point still remains that inherently these words don't mean the things you say technically, you yourself are giving them that meaning. a word can mean something to someone and mean something completely different to someone else. [editline]8th January 2013[/editline] this is what [B]you[/B] think of the word and what [B]I[/B] think of the word it's purely subjective. and i still think faith is complete and utter bullshit.[/QUOTE] I know you do :) Also I've done things that take me past blind faith. I've seen the afterlife, or at least it's syntax. I'm just sorry you don't know what's up. All I can really tell you is that if you think you're done searching, you aren't. But I suppose it would require a bit of faith just to search, I mean what mouse would run a maze without hope for a piece of cheese? If the mouse somehow KNEW there was no piece of cheese in the maze then I suppose giving up would be understandable. [sp]please don't nitpick at the idea that mice will run a maze just cause they are too stupid to have an option, its just a metaphor[/sp]
sorry to nitpick but i'm a mouse who doesn't give a shit about cheese ya dig? what ever happens, happens. [editline]8th January 2013[/editline] [sp]that wasn't a nitpick it was an expansion upon the metaphor so i could be poetic[/sp]
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;39147147]sorry to nitpick but i'm a mouse who doesn't give a shit about cheese ya dig? what ever happens, happens. [editline]8th January 2013[/editline] [sp]that wasn't a nitpick it was an expansion upon the metaphor so i could be poetic[/sp][/QUOTE] Then what the hell are you doing in the maze? :)
who says i'm in a maze? i'm here playing FC3
[QUOTE=King of Satan;39140145]na man you're actually right, its scientifically proven that you can't be empathetic and logical at the same time, your brain just can't do it.[/QUOTE] When it comes to using empathy for me, I see no use to use logic. Because I'm just putting myself into their shoes so to say. Makes me feel like how they would in a situation. Maybe we just don't need to use logic while using empathy. Of-course this is limited on what the use of the empathy is judged towards. Let's say if someone was going to prison for 25 years for murder. Of course he should go and not have another chance.
Do you know why we are the only ones left alive and normal, we as in anyone reading this. Because we are the only ones who can think of a websites name that starts with the letter "F" faster than anyone else that doesn't involve the words facebook. That's what I'm on right now, bro. [editline]9th January 2013[/editline] I'm sorry to say this as well, but [B]Zenreon117[/B] and [B]FoodStuffs[/B], you guys are going [B][I][U]WAY[/U][/I][/B] too damn hard right now and need to both have a time out. I'm highhhhhh
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39147182]Then what the hell are you doing in the maze? :)[/QUOTE] Having a good time, enjoying myself and growing as a mouse We're making our own cheese
[QUOTE=Faren;39163745]Having a good time, enjoying myself and growing as a mouse We're making our own cheese[/QUOTE] From what? You're own race's milk and semen? that's wholesome
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39133329]I dont support UPB, as it crumbles. Just because I humor your and show some of the results that UPB suggests, I dont think morality can be justified using language. That same way the feeling of anger cannot truly be expressed in language. You are chasing down a rabbit hole of logic that will just keep on ending in dead ends. Morality is a difficult thing, and so far you haven't really gotten past Euthyphro. It seems that now you have just changed the word happiness to the word preferable. What makes preferable things objectively better? I have said what I believe morally, and I will say it again. I believe that a healthy conscience is the ultimate guage (yet not limiter) of ones moral actions. If someone was damaged as a child (ie raped or otherwise abused) then their concience will likely be weaker as it was screaming to him when he was getting beat (Why is this ok?) and then through your logical trial and error the child decides that if his dad or whatever can do it, then logically its OK for him to do it too. I am saying that no its not. A person's conscience is like a woman's vagina, if you rough it up too often it will end up dry and poorly suited for its original purpose.[/QUOTE] I'm going to withdraw because these responses keep getting worse.
all of your thoughts and shit are just brain impulses reacting with other brain impulses and shit and technically you have no free will that's scary
you do have free will
your thoughts are just like reactions though the free will you feel is created by those messages travelling around and it's all choices pre-shaped by shit if i could find the post i learned that from it'd make more sense
but that would imply that you could predict what someone was going to do if you knew all the biochemical info about someones brain etc and its been mathematically proven that thats impossible because free will actually exists. Johnnymo1 whats that math that says you can't perfectly predict what someone is going to do, I forgot its name
probably quantum mechanics or some shit most likely has quantum in the name or something to do with that shit. i call it shit because algebra is hard... imagine me doing calculus. it's kafkaesque.
There are no quantum mechanics involved in the workings of neural networks, or specifically our brains.
how the fuck can you say that when it applies to fucking everything because it's about the basis of everything itself? [editline]14th January 2013[/editline] not directly of course... errr... who knows?
[QUOTE=geogzm;39219413]all of your thoughts and shit are just brain impulses reacting with other brain impulses and shit and technically you have no free will that's scary[/QUOTE] Woah everybody, we've got a strong determinist in the house.
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39221561]but that would imply that you could predict what someone was going to do if you knew all the biochemical info about someones brain etc and its been mathematically proven that thats impossible because free will actually exists. Johnnymo1 whats that math that says you can't perfectly predict what someone is going to do, I forgot its name[/QUOTE] Chaos theory is a section of mathematics that studies systems that are incredibly sensitive to initial conditions. Quantum theory is a theory of physics that is (usually) interpreted to imply that how particles behave is fundamentally based on probability and it is impossible to predict all facts about any particles with perfect accuracy. In my opinion, neither of those theories imply that we have free will at all. Whether or not we can predict what someone is going to do in practice, or even in theory, has no bearing in my mind on whether or not they have meaningful control over their actions. [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] I don't think we have free will, even with quantum mechanics considered.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;39225230]Chaos theory is a section of mathematics that studies systems that are incredibly sensitive to initial conditions. Quantum theory is a theory of physics that is (usually) interpreted to imply that how particles behave is fundamentally based on probability and it is impossible to predict all facts about any particles with perfect accuracy. In my opinion, neither of those theories imply that we have free will at all. Whether or not we can predict what someone is going to do in practice, or even in theory, has no bearing in my mind on whether or not they have meaningful control over their actions. [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] I don't think we have free will, even with quantum mechanics considered.[/QUOTE] So when given a choice between three identical boxes, a bunch of chemical and ultimately predetermined reactions occur that decide which box one would choose? I think free will goes past the immediate actions and desires of a person.
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;39223443]how the fuck can you say that when it applies to fucking everything because it's about the basis of everything itself? [editline]14th January 2013[/editline] not directly of course... errr... who knows?[/QUOTE] As you said, not directly, which kind of kills your argument completely. Quantum mechanics are relevant on a quantum level, not a macroscopical one. The randomness and complexity does not affect our brains. Neural networks are, in fact, quite predictable in their output if you have them mapped out to 100% and with a full knowledge and simulation of external stimuli. I don't think we have free will either, but our behaviour is too complex for ourselves to be able to fully predict it (obvious, a system can not simulate itself to perfection, that's not even including external stimuli) and thus it doesn't really matter for us from our perspective.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39224094]Woah everybody, we've got a strong determinist in the house.[/QUOTE] i feel free will and all just i saw this one post and it's scary to think that everything might be set up like that
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39225883]So when given a choice between three identical boxes, a bunch of chemical and ultimately predetermined reactions occur that decide which box one would choose? I think free will goes past the immediate actions and desires of a person.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily predetermined, but wholly subject to physical law, yes. What do you mean by the second part?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;39229440]Not necessarily predetermined, but wholly subject to physical law, yes. What do you mean by the second part?[/QUOTE] If you prick a person's brain and force them to feel a feeling or pick a box, then I suppose that would be physical law. But when nobody is around pricking the brain, who is choosing the box? [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] Ultimately this comes down to a fundamental philosophical question of whether mind arises from matter, or matter arises from mind.
Mind arises from matter. I think that's pretty self apparent to anyone who isn't deluding themselves. [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] The universe is pricking your brain all the time, it's just more subtle than poking around in your skull.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;39230585]Mind arises from matter. I think that's pretty self apparent to anyone who isn't deluding themselves. [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] The universe is pricking your brain all the time, it's just more subtle than poking around in your skull.[/QUOTE] I fundamentally disagree, and am slightly hurt. Philosophy is about questioning the base assumptions, everything from "killing babies is bad" to "the earth is flat", and look where that lead us. Frankly, the mind and brain only have a symptomatic relationship. The causality isn't established one way or another. It could just as easily be one way, as it would be going the other.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39230357]Ultimately this comes down to a fundamental philosophical question of whether mind arises from matter, or matter arises from mind.[/QUOTE] I wasn't aware there ever was a question of matter arising from mind. What do you mean by that?
Zenreon aren't you making too many assumptions based on faith? There's a reason for the base assumption that the mind arises from matter, and it's because it's logical and the assumption with the most proof and science supporting it, while the opposite, that matter arises from the mind, requires you to take a lot of blind and quite large leaps of faith in your reasoning. I think you are underestimating the complexity of this matter-based mind, and somehow attribute it to a soul.
Well, I never really questioned a soul, because I knew we have a soul. But that's just my "opinion" you could say, I just listen to my dreams. Thought, is one confusing thing within science. Yes, Logic and reason are good. But I see what Zenreon is getting at, however, I think Matter creates mind.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;39239264]Zenreon aren't you making too many assumptions based on faith? There's a reason for the base assumption that the mind arises from matter, and it's because it's logical and the assumption with the most proof and science supporting it, while the opposite, that matter arises from the mind, requires you to take a lot of blind and quite large leaps of faith in your reasoning. I think you are underestimating the complexity of this matter-based mind, and somehow attribute it to a soul.[/QUOTE] This is what I am saying though, there is a large complexity to this brain. But the things it outputs like electrical activity are not officially causally related, they are just symptomatically related to expressions of consciousness. You can poke a brain and in the ad-absurdum I suppose you could even control a whole body with a intricate enough tool. However I am arguing that although you do all these things to the body and brain, the person (or soul (mindtwistah =P) remains personally unaffected, only the physical outcroppings of what we call his body respond. Its somewhat akin to driving a car in my view.
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