[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39243070]This is what I am saying though, there is a large complexity to this brain. But the things it outputs like electrical activity are not officially causally related, they are just symptomatically related to expressions of consciousness. You can poke a brain and in the ad-absurdum I suppose you could even control a whole body with a intricate enough tool. However I am arguing that although you do all these things to the body and brain, the person (or soul (mindtwistah =P) remains personally unaffected, only the physical outcroppings of what we call his body respond. Its somewhat akin to driving a car in my view.[/QUOTE]
Fires are complex, but they're wholly subject to physical law as well, and their output is entirely dictated by the input. They're a process rather than a thing, just like the mind.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39243070]This is what I am saying though, there is a large complexity to this brain. But the things it outputs like electrical activity are not officially causally related, they are just symptomatically related to expressions of consciousness. You can poke a brain and in the ad-absurdum I suppose you could even control a whole body with a intricate enough tool. However I am arguing that although you do all these things to the body and brain, the person (or soul (mindtwistah =P) remains personally unaffected, only the physical outcroppings of what we call his body respond. Its somewhat akin to driving a car in my view.[/QUOTE]
Then I fall back to my original question many pages ago, what [B]is [/B]the soul? What do you define as us?
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;39248784]Then I fall back to my original question many pages ago, what [B]is [/B]the soul? What do you define as us?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I could spew a bunch of theodicy babble at you, or I could go all new agey, or I could go all philosophical. I've heard so many opinions on this that my answer to you would be:
I don't know. I'm not in a position to say definitively one way or another.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39248851]Honestly, I could spew a bunch of theodicy babble at you, or I could go all new agey, or I could go all philosophical. I've heard so many opinions on this that my answer to you would be:
I don't know. I'm not in a position to say definitively one way or another.[/QUOTE]
Then how can you be so sure of that there really is a soul, and that everything you associate with a person can't be broken down into individual components and attributed to various specialized nervous systems in the brain, which can most certainly be altered and manipulated by "poking around your skull" (for your extreme example :p) , or even through drugs or mental disorder.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;39249085]Then how can you be so sure of that there really is a soul, and that everything you associate with a person can't be broken down into individual components and attributed to various specialized nervous systems in the brain, which can most certainly be altered and manipulated by "poking around your skull" (for your extreme example :p) , or even through drugs or mental disorder.[/QUOTE]
Because I have one, I know that I am, and I am outside of just my body and sensual experiences.
I must ask you since you seem to be so keen on reductionism:
If the whole of my being is based on the reduction to the smallest relevant components, then what can be said of reality and the reduction to base particles that operate on quantum theory?
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;39248784]Then I fall back to my original question many pages ago, what [B]is [/B]the soul? What do you define as us?[/QUOTE]
from my thoughts.
The visible light spectrum, I believe that this is one small piece, of the whole scale. Including Gamma rays and X Rays, I think there is more too it. But understand that I am not studying this because I'm curious about a life after death. So please don't attack me about "Oh that's impossible bullshit" I've heard it all, I'm just trying to find out what the hell I used to talk about. I used to tell my parents about past lives when I was like 2 or 3. And my dad is a person who was the same, he told me about his(past lives and experiences in this life), but he seems to know more than I knew.
I've been watching this philosophy thread for a while now, so just thought I'd wait till someone would talk about this so I could share my thought.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39249343]Because I have one, I know that I am, and I am outside of just my body and sensual experiences.
I must ask you since you seem to be so keen on reductionism:
If the whole of my being is based on the reduction to the smallest relevant components, then what can be said of reality and the reduction to base particles that operate on quantum theory?[/QUOTE]
The funkiness on the quantum scale does not appear on a macroscopical scale, so I do not think it influences reality in any way for us. It is more of a mind-boggle for theoretical physicists, but since we don't have a unifying theory as of yet, and I don't really have a lot of deeper, more detailed knowledge in the field, I can not make wild assumptions.
Although in my completely subjective personal belief (which I do not bring up as fact in arguments) I picture it has to do with statistics, or somehow linked to it. That on the large scale the funking out of the quantum particles doesn't matter because it all "balances out" in probability.
Hard to put such personal beliefs in words, but I hope you understand my meaning.
[QUOTE=ljonny;39249386]from my thoughts.
[b]The visible light spectrum, I believe that this is one small piece, of the whole scale. Including Gamma rays and X Rays, I think there is more too it.[/b] But understand that I am not studying this because I'm curious about a life after death. So please don't attack me about "Oh that's impossible bullshit" I've heard it all, I'm just trying to find out what the hell I used to talk about. I used to tell my parents about past lives when I was like 2 or 3. And my dad is a person who was the same, he told me about his(past lives and experiences in this life), but he seems to know more than I knew.
I've been watching this philosophy thread for a while now, so just thought I'd wait till someone would talk about this so I could share my thought.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39249509]What are you talking about[/QUOTE]
Naw be cool, he asked not to be attacked so he obviously doesn't want to argue about his beliefs atm, he just threw in his thought (which I of course can not find reasonable in any way based on the presented information, but I respect his personal belief).
Im not attacking him im asking him what he's talking about because it doesn't seem to say anything.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39249343]Because I have one, I know that I am, and I am outside of just my body and sensual experiences.[/QUOTE]
That's not an answer. If it was I could just say that I can't hear a soul bouncing around when I shake my head so I'm sure I don't have one.
[QUOTE=MazerRackham;39249725][QUOTE=Zenreon117;39249343]Because I have one, I know that I am, and I am outside of just my body and sensual experiences. [/QUOTE]
That's not an answer. If it was I could just say that I can't hear a soul bouncing around when I shake my head so I'm sure I don't have one.[/QUOTE]
A soul is you, nowhere did I say that there is a thing called a soul that is located spatially in your head. What I said is that I know that I am, and that I am is not just what I see and what I do. I can close my eyes and be in a whole other world. I can create a whole reality and live out what seems like years in it. Furthermore I can be creative. I am, and you cannot tell me that I am not.
aye cuz what if we is actually dead already and dis is just heaven??????
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39250895]A soul is you, nowhere did I say that there is a thing called a soul that is located spatially in your head. What I said is that I know that I am, and that I am is not just what I see and what I do. I can close my eyes and be in a whole other world. I can create a whole reality and live out what seems like years in it. Furthermore I can be creative. I am, and you cannot tell me that I am not.[/QUOTE]
But simply saying what you feel and stating it as a certainty isn't philosophy, it's opinion. The concept of a soul is metaphysical, whereas the concept of a mind (exactly what you're describing) is physical. Are you just using the word soul as a place holder for mind?
[QUOTE=MazerRackham;39251149]But simply saying what you feel and stating it as a certainty isn't philosophy, it's opinion. The concept of a soul is metaphysical, whereas the concept of a mind (exactly what you're describing) is physical. Are you just using the word soul as a place holder for mind?[/QUOTE]
I didn't really want to get into this, yes I was primarily describing the mind, but I am referring to the self. The soul is such in that it is not dependent on the body. I define the soul as the state of self being-ness (lol). It is a self-aware Identity that is not necessarily bound by the third dimension.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39251210]I didn't really want to get into this, yes I was primarily describing the mind, but I am referring to the self. The soul is such in that it is not dependent on the body. I define the soul as the state of self being-ness (lol). It is a self-aware Identity that is not necessarily bound by the third dimension.[/QUOTE]
So, the Ego as opposed to the Id? I agree that if we were to label any part of our consciousness as the soul it would be the part which is aware of itself, but you lose me when you take the leap of separating it from our physical being.
Also, I didn't mean for the soul bouncing thing to sound so facetious. I have trouble with analogies sometimes.
Mystery schools of all ages have taught a thing called Exstasis. It isn't so much a philosophic matter as it is a spiritual one, and thus why I leave it out as much as possible.
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;39249509]What are you talking about[/QUOTE]
What I'm saying is, I think there's more to light than we think. There is people trying to spread this around the world already, but their being called looney's.
[url]http://withmeat.com/images_2/spectrum_of_light.jpg[/url]
More of the spectrum, that's what I'm talking about. It's not that out of the ordinary or even crazy. It's just science. It's like when we discovered Ultra violet or Infrared.
And I think that's what the soul is, higher light.
This is a better graph that shows it
[img]http://i.imgur.com/souTJ.png[/img]
Its not higher light its just higher wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum. If it higher it causes radiation and kills us.
I think we would know if we were "higher light" than gamma rays.
That's what I meant to say. Didn't know how to explain it well. But the soul is a tiny thing, a very small thing, probably as small as an electron. Maybe even smaller.
Well really, I did want to explain it as wave lengths but according to my smart ass friend that thinks he knows everything, that spectrum has nothing to do with wave lengths, so I was thinking I was just wrong on explaining it to him..
What I'm really trying to say, is that in this higher wave length, you'll get to the point where you're in different realities, maybe dimensions you could say. Theoretically of course. I've seen many talk about this idea, and I have came to this conclusion at few times before..
[QUOTE=ljonny;39253725]What I'm saying is, I think there's more to light than we think. There is people trying to spread this around the world already, but their being called looney's.
[url]http://withmeat.com/images_2/spectrum_of_light.jpg[/url]
More of the spectrum, that's what I'm talking about. It's not that out of the ordinary or even crazy. It's just science. It's like when we discovered Ultra violet or Infrared.
And I think that's what the soul is, higher light.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should say that because in the original version of the bible translated directly from hebrew it states at one point:
"God is Light, and in him there is no darkness" Thus if we are but a speck, then he is the whole in a way of thinking.
I honestly wouldn't know, never read the bible haha.
i wish i could see gamma rays...
i bet they're pretty.
[editline]17th January 2013[/editline]
where's that speech cavil makes at the end of the series in battlestar galactica that's an insanely metaphysically awesome speech about how crude and primitive his senses and body are.
that speech should be like the topic heading.
[QUOTE=ljonny;39254167]That's what I meant to say. Didn't know how to explain it well. But the soul is a tiny thing, a very small thing, probably as small as an electron. Maybe even smaller.
Well really, I did want to explain it as wave lengths but according to my smart ass friend that thinks he knows everything, that spectrum has nothing to do with wave lengths, so I was thinking I was just wrong on explaining it to him..
What I'm really trying to say, is that in this higher wave length, you'll get to the point where you're in different realities, maybe dimensions you could say. Theoretically of course. I've seen many talk about this idea, and I have came to this conclusion at few times before..[/QUOTE]
What makes you think all of this?
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;39258844]
that speech should be like the topic heading.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqzmEtLe8PM[/media]
This one right?
Well frankly you can do most of the things he says, you just have to be in exstasis
yeah that's the one.
that should be like the first thing in the OP
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39260092][media]Well frankly you can do most of the things he says, you just have to be in exstasis[/QUOTE]
I'll bite, what's exstasis?
[QUOTE=MazerRackham;39260677]I'll bite, what's exstasis?[/QUOTE]
Some hilarious thing he believes in because he believes all sorts of wacky stuff
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;39260870]Some hilarious thing he believes in because he believes all sorts of wacky stuff[/QUOTE]
Yup, lets leave it at that. For the curious to search and for JohnnyMo to mock.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;39261026]Yup, lets leave it at that. For the curious to search and for JohnnyMo to mock.[/QUOTE]
Google isn't giving me anything that even approaches what you were suggesting. That's a bit of a tease, stating something that's physically impossible and not backing it up.
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