How does other perceive their nerve impulses, is your blue my red?
[QUOTE=kaskade700;36902688]How does other perceive their nerve impulses, is your blue my red?[/QUOTE]
No way of knowing for sure i'd say. I think we all see the same colors but in varying degrees. A lot of folks see green when I see yellow, and vice-versa.
[QUOTE=kaskade700;36902688]How does other perceive their nerve impulses, is your blue my red?[/QUOTE]
actually about 2-3 months ago they have proved that we do see most colors the same. the only different are things that have emotional attachments like the color of you lover's eyes, and things like that. i saw this in a TED talk awhile back, let me see if i can find that vid.
[QUOTE=kafurie;36904222]actually about 2-3 months ago they have proved that we do see most colors the same. the only different are things that have emotional attachments like the color of you lover's eyes, and things like that. i saw this in a TED talk awhile back, let me see if i can find that vid.[/QUOTE]
I love posts like this, thank you
I took morality, society and the individual last semester at university and I can safely say it's bullshit and I never want to do a philosophy related subject again.
might be different if the topic wasn't morality, but the entire class was based around a circular argument, there was no objective right or wrong, and every single theory was inherently flawed. Never doing that shit again, ever.
holy shit, Mindfulness in Plain English is one of the best books i've ever read. it's available freely too, you should all go read it.
[quote]There you are, and you suddenly realize that you are spending your whole life just barely getting by. You keep up a good front. You manage to make ends meed somehow and look OK from the outside. But those periods of desperation, those times when you feel everything caving in on you, you keep those to yourself. You are a mess. And you know it. But you hide it beautifully. Meanwhile, way down under all that you just know there has got be some other way to live, some better way to look at the world, some way to touch life more fully. You click into it by chance now and then. You get a good job. You fall in love. You win the game. and for a while, things are different. Life takes on a richness and clarity that makes all the bad times and humdrum fade away. The whole texture of your experience changes and you say to yourself, "OK, now I've made it; now I will be happy". But then that fades, too, like smoke in the wind. You are left with just a memory. That and a vague awareness that something is wrong.[/quote]
^^looking back that quote makes the book seem depressing, but the whole goal of the book is to get you to live your life exactly the same as you would before you read the book. the only difference is it's with a perspective that allows you to control your impulses and desires and instead be purely happy with the complexity of life and gain insight into all of it through close examination of the world around you (as if you were a child again)
this is a bit of a page stretch but it is not at all bullshit this is "Reconciling Reality" by a friend of mine
If you are like any human being, you have troubles with reality. We have cute terms like "We are all one", "Reality is self-defined" "Nothing is true", and as I said, these are all cute infantile expressions that hide something else. We wish to live in harmony with ourselves, and then with others but we do not know how to do it. We struggle with the concepts of what is real and what isn't, we form various experiments to try and prove all things under one banner.
"Reality is self-defined"
This suggests that the only thing that is real, is what you perceive. But this is obviously false as we can often feel like things are real that we well and truly do not want to be real. This theory (like the other 2) then falls back on explanations to explain the outlying events. Suggesting things like the subconscious (perhaps valid, perhaps not). So this theory seems like it desperately grasps for something to have some form of internal acceptance (harmony with the self).
"We are all one".
This one, while it sounds good is near impossible to achieve as on every level we think, feel, and see separably. While this is a lofty goal, something worth perhaps achieving, it does not state what reality is, but more an ideal state of reality (unity). So while this could be considered a worthy goal (and many have tried in their own way, look up organized religion and you may see the patterns of that) it is not quite on the mark.
"Nothing is true"
This falls much under the "Reality is Self-Defined" slogan. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Yet everything is clearly not permitted at the same time, this becomes another attempt to reconcile reality, to restore friendly relations with what is real to harmonize yourself to what is around you, by rejecting what is around you as falsities or malleable.
So what do we see? What are the patterns? There are patterns, they seem to be everywhere if you are willing to look. Nothing is True, and Reality is Self-Defined hold a pattern of rejection. It rejects reality and substitutes a personal reality where one does not need to harmonize with anyone but themselves, this is easy but is clearly lacking. We are all One is a way of harmonizing with others, but is often done through the methods of organized religion, which seek to harmonize by subjugation. Even in this community, we attempt to subjugate others to Love and Light, Peace and Acceptance, etc. etc. We ourselves attempt indoctrination into what could be considered a sub-culture (or counter-culture). Yet this niche, proves that we are not one because we have a need to subjugate those around us.
So what do we do? How do we reconcile reality? Do we first have to accept that it is no so simple as a few word phrase? Perhaps the process of understanding, and the knowledge that answers may always be out of reach is a good starting point? Being able to "what if" what seems impossible. "What if we can fly" and also "What if we cannot fly". "What if I am just acting this way because my parents told me?" "What if I always acted this way, before my parents told me?" Looking at both sides, both potentials and all potentials as potentials, and then weighing them in terms of liklihood seems an ideal way to go.
But there lies the problem. you lack a universal creed, you lack a slogan. People have grown accustomed to marketing, and ease of digestion. In telling people that we do not know the universal truth, it undercuts how they grew up and they may find it dangerous or even scary. The important thing is to realize we all have our own points of view, and while we say we do this we all have faults in it and are not perfect. So we strive for systems that seem perfect but are not.
So how do you reconcile reality? Is it realistic or is it just blind idealism to avoid facing a, perhaps harsher, truth? What if everything you believe is a lie? If you are comfortable with that, why? Does ignorance and naivete not breed war and violence? History suggests that those that cannot accept their enemies, simply start wars.
[QUOTE=kafurie;36904222]actually about 2-3 months ago they have proved that we do see most colors the same. the only different are things that have emotional attachments like the color of you lover's eyes, and things like that. i saw this in a TED talk awhile back, let me see if i can find that vid.[/QUOTE]
I really want to see this video because I am having a real hard time fathoming how a biological nerve system in constant disarray can be so collectively calibrated.
I mean, if you wear upside down goggles for an extended period of time your brain will stop doing the constant image reversing your brain has been doing since your baby brain figured out it is a lot smarter to see things that way, resulting with you having upside down vision without the goggles for a limited time until your brain figures that out once again. Our brain does all sort of little neat tricks to make sense of our nerve impulses, or make them easier to comprehend, filling out the blanks, etc, etc. Even our thinking is largely dominated by different rationalization processes in either imagery, math or human language, ultimately controlled by your gender, hormones and vice versa resulting in incomprehensible inputs, but how is it we all can relate to each others output? the indoctrination of our cultures makes us able to communicate and relate because our brain is hardwired to taking shortcuts, and other people are inevitably a shortcut. But how do we know if we're doing it right? is todays logic the most infallible language? Most would agree but have we ever tried other alternatives, or have we forgotten? Should an infant miraculously survive independent of human inputs would it think the way we do? If not, could we comprehend?
At the same time almost all illusions work on all pupils, suggesting a certain streamlining in our brains thought process, problem solving and input handling.
Honestly I have no idea what I'm typing about, high as a mofo just thought I'd type something out.
People react simalary to same colours, if they were perceived differently people wouldnt react the same would they? ie how blue has a calming effect if someone saw red as blue then red would calm them and colours would have different effects on different people.
Our nerves are build all the same, sending different electric impulses into our brain according to what photons they are hit with. These impulses however, has to be processed by your brane, how do you go from electrical signal to perceived vision uniform with other peoples vision without any sort of calibration?
[QUOTE=kaskade700;36915181]Our nerves are build all the same, sending different electric impulses into our brain according to what photons they are hit with. These impulses however, has to be processed by your brane, how do you go from electrical signal to perceived vision uniform with other peoples vision without any sort of calibration?[/QUOTE]
Your DNA has instructions for how your visual system is "built", as well as the optical center of your brain. If you make the brain and organs a certain way, they will perform a certain way.
"We are neither our bodies nor brains. There has to be something else thats binds all flesh sacks together.
I imagine it like a puppet master, whose muppets have, to a certain degree, their own will. Sometimes its possible to observe your thoughts, or let the body take over and recieve much faster reaction times. Most will know this under "Oh shit just pushed som-- WTF I'm a ninja"-moments.
When people gain controll over said puppets they become above average in whatever they like to do."
That is all I remember from my last high. Even wrote a few papers, but most of that is cryptic or silly.
[QUOTE=The_Volcom;36916887]"We are neither our bodies nor brains. There has to be something else thats binds all flesh sacks together.
I imagine it like a puppet master, whose muppets have, to a certain degree, their own will. Sometimes its possible to observe your thoughts, or let the body take over and recieve much faster reaction times. Most will know this under "Oh shit just pushed som-- WTF I'm a ninja"-moments.
When people gain controll over said puppets they become above average in whatever they like to do."
That is all I remember from my last high. Even wrote a few papers, but most of that is cryptic or silly.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if it's just dissociation or insight into something greater, but my whole life I've had the feeling that my mind, consciousness, whatever is not really connected to my body. Sort of like, this form is just temporary. When I think that all my experiences have been just my one life, and that nothing I know existed to me before I was born just blows my fucking mind. It's so mind boggling to think that everything I'm thinking is unique to me, and before didn't exist, and one day may no longer exist. I can't comprehend death because consciousness is all I've ever experienced.
There is a quote by Mark Twain that I have always loved about the subject of death, and has brought me a great deal of comfort: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
Time is an illusion. Upon realization of this fact one can learn to manipulate the flow of time.
Time travel is real, my friends. We are the time travelers.
You guys know about the conscious transfer thing, right? Like if you were instantly cloned and killed at the same time, your consciousness would/wouldn't transfer, but what if our old consciousness dies every second? We wouldn't be able to tell, we remember everything as the same. What if every time we have a brain cycle or whatever, we start a new consciousness that just takes from our old memories?
The sad things is humanity is a collective decision maker.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;36924890]You guys know about the conscious transfer thing, right? Like if you were instantly cloned and killed at the same time, your consciousness would/wouldn't transfer, but what if our old consciousness dies every second? We wouldn't be able to tell, we remember everything as the same. What if every time we have a brain cycle or whatever, we start a new consciousness that just takes from our old memories?[/QUOTE]
Oh god this bugs the hell out of me.
When we ever get star trek like teleportation, will the conscious you are now die or will it be in the new version.
It would suck when everytime you teleport somewhere 'you' essentially die, but nobody will ever be able to tell, because it is always an identical copy, with the same memories and stuff.
Interesting idea that it happens everytime. Maybe even across several generations. Thats why so many people get visions from their 'earlier' lifes, when under meditation or hypnosis.
[QUOTE=kaskade700;36902688]How does other perceive their nerve impulses, is your blue my red?[/QUOTE]
No, that wouldn't work. If it worked like that, there would have been a time and a place where you argued with somebody whether an object was blue or red.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;36927651]No, that wouldn't work. If it worked like that, there would have been a time and a place where you argued with somebody whether an object was blue or red.[/QUOTE]
No, you don't understand what he means. Think about it like someone who is colorblind. They wouldn't know that X color they perceive, is actually perceived as color Y by everyone with normal vision, because they still call it the same color.
I got super baked with a friend and listened to this song. We both literally got into the most relaxing chill philosophy discussion. All about consciousness, subjective experiences, etc.
[video=youtube;OFzXaFbxDcM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzXaFbxDcM[/video]
Nothing in this thread, or any other philosophical discussions ever blow my mind anymore, all I can think about is having some tangible proof of what our consciousness is so we can properly understand it. I feel all these types of discussions are just endless cycles that me and my other ~deep~ friends talk about all the time. Please [B]somebody[/B] blow my mind!
Has anyone else felt a disassociation (reality/self/etc) because of opening too many doors and venturing down the rabbit hole too far?
[B]Edit:[/B]
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;36547447]we are all agents of chaos. chaos defines us, envisions us, created us, will destroy us and we will forever be at the mercy of it.
by all definition of the term, chaos itself is god.[/quote]
If you learn enough about physics you will see that in a certain way everything was created out of chaos, I think...
-Snip-
I really like to think about identity, where it comes from and what shape it is.
I prefer thinking about our identities as a big collage of pictures. Pictures we take from the start of our consciousness, with a clean canvas, to the end of it, when we destroy ourselves. All these pictures are the impressions we have felt throughout our lives: all the art we have perceived, all the personas we've talked with, all the catastrophes we've witnessed, all the pain; grief; love; jealousy; humbleness; fear and sexuality we have been a part of are all pictures - making a bigger picture. The collage. The you. Identity.
I think therefore I am. - The only thing we can truly assert for sure.
If we couple this with
-the concept of superposition
(i.e. If you take two protons and make them occupy the exact same space, then separate them, they will still act as if they were the same object. No matter how "Far" they are from each other); and
-the concept of singularity at the start of universe (Big Bang)
Then through logic we can deduce that everything is in fact still one and completely connected.
Now, if we return to the original quote, we can assert that the only thing, and everything. Is "I am".
The sacred name of god in several monotheistic religions is surprisingly related to this. In Christianity, the true name of god is "Eh yeh Asher Eh yeh" or "I am what I am" or more simply "I am"
However it is important to make the distinction between "You" as in your ego being god, and true god consciousness. True god consciousness is in my opinion a consciousness which is entirely independent of matter. Whereas our egos are constructs of the material world.
When a child is born, the first thing they wish to scream out to the world is "What is this!?! WTF!?" But they cannot, as they do not have the language abilities for such questioning. So, with time, and with pleasures such as warmth, milk, and toys, we forget the first question of all of life. It takes a true philosopher (Or stoner) to re-connect with this original question. And so we must find our path back from the material to the immaterial. (Although sadly, many are lost to the vices of this world. And they forget)
If you were to ask me what my concept of god looks like, I would first of all tell you that I can in no way describe it accurately, as God, in my opinion, is "Alpha and Omega" Everything that is, was, and will be. You cannot make a picture of such a thing, this is perhaps why making depictions of god in many religions is a grave blasphemy.
If I were to try however, I would say this;
God is like a massive crystal, with many many fragments. Some pulse light, some pulse dark. They are constantly flickering and they represent consciousness in its egotistical form. Some more accomplished souls manage to build themselves up with energy and affect other fragments more. Others change little and go out in the good night.
Those who build not their consciousness. They will go out like a used candle. Perhaps spiritual immortality is the preparing of oneself to be able to act in this higher state of consciousness. Although never the ultimate state (God state) as that is only one.
The only advice I can give to you facepunch;
Forget not the original question, for if you forget that, you will forget yourself and you will go easily into the good night.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;37037440]I think therefore I am. [/QUOTE]
i have a quote to counter that quote
I think therefore I am not, only when the mind is silent, I am.
[QUOTE=kafurie;37038159]i have a quote to counter that quote
I think therefore I am not, only when the mind is silent, I am.[/QUOTE]
Poignant
poop
lol
Who Am I?
[media]http://soundcloud.com/meader/who-am-i-1[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbpFqPU2iJY[/media]
A lot of subjects that interest me are in this song.
"If you wanna time travel just stand in one place"
"My ego is so damn savage that it sometimes convinces me that I'm above average, below madness."
"The most violent fights tend to be about nothing, absolutely nothing but a lack of control, a need to make another person back up, patrol."
"I'm bald, I got a belly and I'm all scaly, and I'm not in need of food love or money so I'm wealthy my well being works like this, I'm satisfied with my life therefore I'm rich, get it?"
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